God's Grace is : The only Law for the Born again.

[fhansen]

Sin is taken away by Christ's blood, or you still have yours.
Bottomline.
You are born again, or you are not.
This isn't a process, and its not a self effort.

Salvation is more like a journey. We can get on the right path, and stay on it, doing Gods will, or, alternatively, refuse to get on it, or get on and jump back off at any point along the way. To the extent that we fully, totally love God, with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength-and our neighbor as ourselves, we’ve arrived. Simple as that sounds. But a very tall order it is, and absolutely impossible without grace, apart from God.

 

[Ceallaigh]

God came here, as Jesus, to offer His blood and body for our sin.

We can't do that for ourselves.

The way that God applies that blood atonement, is "justification by Faith".
We give God our faith in Christ, which God accepts, as "faith is counted AS righteousness"< = and God applies to us His blood and death, as our Eternal Salvation. This is how we become "born again".
Its a free GIFT.
"the Gift of Salvation".
"the Gift of Righteousness".

Here's a thing though. Christians were taught what fhansen teaches for 1,500 years before John Calvin came along. Does that mean no one was born again during that 1,500 year span of time?

 

[Mark Quayle]

I have no idea what you are talking about.
We have had no discussion where we have talked about "calvinism".

Have you confused me with another member?

Now, we can talk about JC if you like.
Sure.

Im not a hyper calvanist.
I understand that God can't hold me accountable for what He made me do.
This means that God can't send me to hell for rejecting Christ, if He caused me to reject Christ.
So, that type of crazy theology, isn't a part of the NT, or Paul's doctrine, but it is a part of the belief system of many who have been deceived by people who twisted a couple of verses.

My apologies. I jumped to the conclusion, by your use of the notion of freewill, that you were reacting to the fact I was Reformed (aka Calvinist).

No, you certainly are not Calvinist. Calvinism doesn't believe contrary to Scripture that one can be without sin. By the way, Calvinism says, (like the Bible does) that one is already condemned (John 3:18) "because they have not believed". But that doesn't mean God sends them to hell because they rejected him. They are going to the Lake of Fire as for direct payment of their debt of sin. They are going because of God's justice.

I notice you did not answer how you deal with 1 John 1: "8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."

 

[Sidon]

--------

 

[Sidon]

Salvation is more like a journey.

You are again describing how you are your own salvation.

Listen, Salvation is not a path or a journey.
Salvation is God on the Cross, shedding blood, dying.....
See That?
That is Salvaiton.
That is GOD doing THAT so that base on that, you can be with Him.

THat is not a "Journey", and its not "commandments or law".

Salvation is 2000 yrs ago, Christ on the Cross. This is John 14:6

 

[Sidon]

Here's a thing though. Christians were taught what fhansen teaches for 1,500 years before John Calvin came along. Does that mean no one was born again during that 1,500 year span of time?

I dont teach J Calvin.
I only Teach Paul, 'Pauline Theology"....and he preceded everyone except for the original 12, and Jesus Himself.
Paul wrote most of the NT, not JC and not the Pope, and not the Church Fathers, and not Joseph Arminian.

Just avoid all those, and go with Paul the Apostle, and all ends well.

 

[fhansen]

You are again describing how you are your own salvation.

Listen, Salvation is not a path or a journey.
Salvation is God on the Cross, shedding blood, dying.....
See That?
That is Salvaiton.
That is GOD doing THAT so that base on that, you can be with Him.

THat is not a "Journey", and its not "commandments or law".

Salvation is 2000 yrs ago, Christ on the Cross. This is John 14:6

Anyone can use platitudes, true as they can be, in an attempt to sound impressive while not being relevant to the discussion. No one denies that, apart from Jesus Christ and everything He said and did we’re sick, lost, dead. We can’t even believe- which is necessary in order to benefit from His sacrifice 2000 years ago, let alone do anything else that has been ordained and now made possible for us to do-and do apart from the law incidentally.

So: Listen, Salvation is a path or a journey.

 

[Sidon]

No, you certainly are not Calvinist. Calvinism doesn't believe contrary to Scripture that one can be without sin."

Apology accpeted.

Also, If Christ has our sin, then Calvanism, in that regard, is a lie.

So, here is the test.
Are you born again?
If you are, then Christ has your sin, otherwise you'd have it, and He has not died for them yet.


JC was confused, theologically, a log..... and was a very carnal man.

Get away from all that, and study the epistles of Paul, as i gave you in a previous post, and also this..

Romans 3:21-28.

And live in this verse, Hebrews 13:9.

Salvation is all of God. Its "the Gift of Salvation".

JC, and many like Him, oppose Paul, and harmed billions of people along the way.

 

[Sidon]

Anyone can use platitudes, true as they can be, in an attempt to sound impressive while not being relevant to the discussion. No one denies that, apart from Jesus Christ and everything He said and did we’re sick, lost, dead. We can’t even believe- which is necessary in order to benefit from His sacrifice 2000 years ago, let alone do anything else that has been ordained and now made possible for us to do-and do apart from the law incidentally.

So: Listen, Salvation is a path or a journey.

Youve been taught to be a devout Calvinist.
I only wish i had been your teacher before you listed to them.

You apparently even have the faith that freewill isn't real.
See how crazy that is?

Will you tell me next that Jesus died on the Cross for some but not all?

 

[Chris35]

Therefore say to the Israelites, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. 23I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.

24“ ‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws


All Gods work, where does free will come in?

 

[Sidon]

All Gods work, where does free will come in?

Free will "comes in" at the time you begin to make A CHOICE in life and you understand the consequences of that Choice.
So, i'd estimate that your FW started at about 3-4 yrs old, when you understood that if you took that you would get a "spanking", and you decided to make a decision as to take it or not.

Notice this same Choice that Eve was given...
So, she already had free will, or she could not have been tempted.
Temptation is a CHOICE< and that is always your freewill, involved.


Jesus said that """" if you will believe in Him""".........and that belief is an option that our free will is being given.

 

[fhansen]

Youve been taught to be a devout Calvinist.
I only wish i had been your teacher before you listed to them.

You apparently even have the faith that freewill isn't real.
See how crazy that is?

Will you tell me next that Jesus died on the Cross for some but not all?

I keep asking why you respond if you don't read my posts. I'm probably further away from Calvinism then I am from you, no offense to Clare who I agree with on some other points. But in my beliefs the will of man is involved from beginning to end, even if only in the continuous ability to say "no". Faith, as with hope and love, is a supernatural gift of grace. We cannot move ourselves towards God; we're lost. But we can always say no to Him; grace is always resistible IOW. Our justification and salvation involves choice, and a series of choices, made daily. And a choice that we can grow stronger and firmer in.

 

[Sidon]

Faith, as with hope and love, is a supernatural gift of grace.

Faith is a "gift of Grace"?
Love is a "gift of Grace"?
Hope is a "gift of Grace"?

I think that is lovely philosophy you have there, but, its not really scriptural.

For example, unsaved mother's love their babies, and is this supernatural Grace?
Or is it innate nature?
A.) innate

The type love that is supernatural is "love your enemies, and do good to those who use you hatefully and enjoy it".
See that?
For you to love that type person, is God's Grace as His love doing it..
But for you to love the child you created with your mate, is innate love.

Jesus said..>"if you BEING EVIL, know how to give good gifts to your children"..
So, see that "know how"? = that is "innate".....not God's Grace causing it.

Also, Calvinism teaches that Grace is irresistible, and if that is true then no one could resist it.
There would be no unbelief found since the Cross was raised.
Have you noticed any?
Me tooooo.
Unbelief proves that you can resist God's Grace, and in fact, God would not need us to "believe on Jesus" by faith'"""", if we were caused to do it.
Jesus would not be the "author and FINISHER of your Faith" if it was not "YOUR Faith".
Faith isn't necessary when you are forced to do something.
Faith is necessary when its an act of TRUST.

 

[Ceallaigh]

I dont teach J Calvin.
I only Teach Paul, 'Pauline Theology"....and he preceded everyone except for the original 12, and Jesus Himself.
Paul wrote most of the NT, not JC and not the Pope, and not the Church Fathers, and not Joseph Arminian.

Just avoid all those, and go with Paul the Apostle, and all ends well.

You avoided answering my question.

Christians were taught Catholicism for 1,500 years before the reformation. Does that mean no one was born again during that 1,500 year span of time?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Apology accpeted.

Also, If Christ has our sin, then Calvanism, in that regard, is a lie.

So, here is the test.
Are you born again?
If you are, then Christ has your sin, otherwise you'd have it, and He has not died for them yet.


JC was confused, theologically, a log..... and was a very carnal man.

Get away from all that, and study the epistles of Paul, as i gave you in a previous post, and also this..

Romans 3:21-28.

And live in this verse, Hebrews 13:9.

Salvation is all of God. Its "the Gift of Salvation".

JC, and many like Him, oppose Paul, and harmed billions of people along the way.

Who is this JC you are talking about? John Calvin, I hope? He does not oppose Paul, nor the Scriptures.

As for the rest of your thinking, you have begun to repeat yourself, and debate is not what you have in mind, apparently. I give up.

 

[Sidon]

You avoided answering my question.
Christians were taught Catholicism for 1,500 years before the reformation. Does that mean no one was born again during that 1,500 year span of time?

"All who hear the gospel and believe on Jesus, shall be saved".

All who try to be justified by the law, are fallen from Grace.

Notice my Alt Picture?
Thats St. Francis.
I deeply admire his ministry and his discipleship, yet, he had issues with the Grace of God, and wanted it to be "works + Grace".
Its not.

 

[Sidon]

Who is this JC you are talking about? John Calvin, I hope? He does not oppose Paul, nor the Scriptures.
.

Calvinism, defies Paul, and defies the Gospel of Grace = "the gift of Salvation".
Calvinism reduces the Gospel to "only the chosen", while Paul teaches the real Gospel as "all who will come".
Calvin teaches that God forces you to become a Son, and Paul teaches that "as many as will believe on Jesus, shall be saved".
Calvin tries to end free will, and Paul teaches that you are to "believe", which is an act of FREE WILL.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Calvinism reduces the Gospel to "only the chosen", while Paul teaches the real Gospel as "all who will come".

And who, does the Bible say, will come?

Calvin teaches that God forces you to become a Son, and Paul teaches that "as many as will believe on Jesus, shall be saved".

And who, does the Bible say, will believe?

Calvin tries to end free will, and Paul teaches that you are to "believe", which is an act of FREE WILL.

What makes you think that "believe" is an act of FREE WILL???

 

[Sidon]

And who, does the Bible say, will come?
And who, does the Bible say, will believe?
What makes you think that "believe" is an act of FREE WILL???

And who, does the Bible say, will come?

1. The Comforter
2. That which is Perfect
3. The antichrist


And who, does the Bible say, will believe?

1. As many as will. John 3:16



What makes you think that "believe" is an act of FREE WILL???

Because without freewill, you have no CHOICE.
And to "believe on Christ" or NOT, is a CHOICE.
Choice is Free Will.

For example, what will you eat next? Thats a choice.

What will you watch on TV today? Thats a Choice.

Will you read your bible today? That's a CHOICE.

What will you do all day? Thats YOUR CHOICE>


Is God causing you to do all this?
Only if you live in a fantasy world that teaches you that God is causing you to choose next, what you will eat, watch, and do.

Wake up.

 

[Mark Quayle]

And who, does the Bible say, will come?

1. The Comforter
2. That which is Perfect
3. The antichrist


And who, does the Bible say, will believe?

1. As many as will. John 3:16



What makes you think that "believe" is an act of FREE WILL???

Because without freewill, you have no CHOICE.
And to "believe on Christ" or NOT, is a CHOICE.
Choice is Free Will.

For example, what will you eat next? Thats a choice.

What will you watch on TV today? Thats a Choice.

Will you read your bible today? That's a CHOICE.

What will you do all day? Thats YOUR CHOICE>


Is God causing you to do all this?
Only if you live in a fantasy world that teaches you that God is causing you to choose next, what you will eat, watch, and do.

Wake up.

I asked who will come, in the context of coming to Christ, and you answer this?
"And who, does the Bible say, will come?

1. The Comforter
2. That which is Perfect
3. The antichrist "

That's not even 'moving the goalposts'. It is no answer to the question.

If freewill = choice, even willed choice, real and with even eternal effects, Calvinism has no problem with it. You are criticizing a caricature — not Calvinism.

The law of cause and effect is not pervasive? Is God not First Cause? Therefore, whether directly or through a long chain of causation, God caused you to choose as you did, according to your will. Your 'freewill' is caused as well. But your logic would have mere chance as your master. Chance is only a placeholder in your thinking, a non-existent self-contradictory ill-logical cause designated to fill a gap in a logical sequence. Or do you think you did something better than others did, because you are intrinsically better than them?

Wake up. Or do you prefer to be illogical?