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God's Grace is : The only Law for the Born again.

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by Sidon, Jun 13, 2021.

  1. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    Lets look at a few verses that deal with growing in Grace as = how to effectively "work out your salvation">


    1.)""" leaving the first principles"""


    Reader....The bible is a progressive reveal.
    Its God revealing Himself, and its God's showing you how He deals with mankind from beginning to the final revelation.
    The Bible reveals this, progressively. Some have classified this as "seasons" or "dispensations", but, its really just the calendar of time, revealing Alpha to Omega, whereby God is showing you what has happened, what is happening right now, and will is to come later, as the revelation of His dealing with man.

    And just like you find the beginning of it all , you then find the process of revelation changing, and continuing to change. For example, when Adam and Eve were here, you has no "law of Moses". And after Christ was Crucified, you had a transition from the OT old covenant to the NEW Testament, New Covenant. So, see that CHANGE? That is the progressive revelation that the Bible is showing you.
    Currently you are in the "time of the Gentile", and this will end and the Great Tribulation will start. So, see that upcoming change being revealed in the NT? That is the Bible showing you what God is doing next, and next, and next.. That is progressive revelation. That is the Bible.

    The believer is also to change. "from Glory to Glory". From spiritual baby to mature believer.
    We are to grow in Grace. We are to start as babes in Christ and mature to the "fullness of the stature of Christ.
    We are to leave the beginning stages, that Paul defines as :

    """"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works""

    Now, see that. 1.) "principles of the doctrine of Christ" and 2.) "repentance from dead works"?
    This means we are to become grounded, centered, in God's Grace, Hebrews 13:9 ....and from this foundation, move on to more revelation and deeper Spirituality. But you have to start there, or you can't ever move on. And if you have not started there, then you are still in the beginning immature stage of "repenting from dead works'... This is sinning and confessing. As this is the baby stage of Christianity, that is not "perfection", which is the mature spiritual stage of discipleship.


    2.) """"Dead to the law""""

    The Born again, are alive to God, "In Christ" and "dead to the law". This means that the law, which IS a curse to us, has been resolved by Christ who has "redeemed us from the Curse of THE LAW". So by being delivered from the "dominion of the law", we are now no longer judged or defined by the Law, which is the "curse".
    We now exist here...."under Grace". This has become our spiritual dominion, as we are "dead to the law", or as Paul teachers... "reckon yourselves DEAD".... See, our old man, our adamic nature our sinful nature, has been "crucified with Christ" and we are risen with Christ in "newness of Life".
    This "newness" is our "new Creation" "in Christ" that is who we have become, by being BORN AGAIN. We are now become "ONE WITH GOD< IN Christ".
    This is now who we are...and never again are we to think of ourselves as a "sinner". We are now become...."as Christ IS, so are the born again, IN THIS WORLD". This is why God tells you to "be in the world but not of it".... And that means how you understand who you have become, as the "new birth", a Child of the Light, BORN AGAIN.


    3.) Harlot

    IN Luke 7, you find the core principle of God's Grace which is defined by a Harlot's NEW behavior, who came to Jesus and poured out her utter thankfulness on the Savior, in public.
    The principle here is...."to whom much is forgiven".
    So, let me show you how this works....
    There is a Satanic lie that has deceived many believers which exists as the idea that ..if you understand and believe (Blood Atonement)= that all your sin is always forgiven, then you will live like the devil.
    And that is the devil's lie. And he created this lie and perpetuates this lie using people, because as long as you believe it, you will never have the revelation of God's Grace that is your power, your rest, and your total deliverance that leads to your "perfection".
    See....
    Satan wants to keep you away from this, so that you exist as working to achieve what God only provides as the "GIFT of salvation".

    Now notice the former Harlot in Luke 7.
    Jesus said she was forgiven much. And do you see her reaction? This is a former whore.... A devout sinner, judged to be so, by THE LAW and COMMANDMENTS. However, Jesus has not judged her. He has only accepted her and loved her and her reaction to God's GRACE, is to fall at God's feet and cry tears on his feet and wash them with her hair.
    Now, see that REACTION to GOD's GRACE?
    That is Her reaction to God's Grace, = it is the pure reaction of every heart and mind and life, that you too will find, when you completely understand and come to believe that God always keeps you saved, no matter what.... based on the BLOOD OF GOD, only.

    This is the wonder of the effect of Grace as it empowers you to live HOLY. This is the fact that "the goodness of God, leads you to repentance". Its a fact reader, that when you renew your mind into the real faith that is only found when you leave your self effort to try to be accepted by God, and REST in the truth that is the power of God's Grace, that you then find your renewed mind as this... "Christ always gives me the Victory".
    See, when you come to truly believe that God will always keep you saved with Christ's blood, then you are entering the TRUE knowledge that will set you free.
    The truth is, the more you believe that you have to work (law and commandments) and strive to please God, the more you will sin and confess and fail.. Whereas, the more you come to understand the depth's of God's COMPLETED forgiveness for you on THE Cross, the more power you find as this : '"Christ always gives me the Victory".

    4.) The Effect of the knowledge of Grace : Deliverance & Holy Living

    The end result that comes only from knowing and understanding and resting in God's Grace, is that you are arming yourself with the Power of Christ, which is God's Grace.
    Christ said "apart from me, you can do nothing"... and that means, all your effort to be a "good christian" will fail. The reason? Its because Real Christianity is not based on you trying to be good, but rather is based on God's goodness existing as "Christ in you the hope of Glory"< as who you are become as "the righteousness of God, in Christ".

    Here is the thing... A born again person, STARTS, as...>"Made Righteous".
    See that?
    The born again are not to try to become righteous, as we are already made by NEW BIRTH< to be Righteous. We START there. That is who we are made to be, as the "new Creation" from the very instant we are born again.
    Most believers are trying to get there, by self effort, (law and commandments) and that is to be Faith failed as : "apart from me you can do nothing"...Jesus tells us.
    So, the rule of Righteousness is..>> 1.) to come to understand who you are become "in Christ", by being Born Again, and live in this mind of real Faith.
    This means you rest in the knowledge of the Truth that you are "made righteousness", and kept righteous by the BLOOD OF GOD for eternity.......as that REAL FAITH= is how you find your power, victory, and deliverance.
    Its all found by resting completely in God's Grace as your REAL FAITH.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
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  2. HIM

    HIM Friend

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    God offers a New Covenant through Christ.
    What is the difference between the two Covenants? God puts His Laws, His Word in our hearts and minds through Christ through Faith. He changes us through His Spirit. Through Faith The law, God's Word through Christ and His Spirit is finally established, made part of each and everyone of us who come to God through Christ.

    Talk about grace. That is grace, a gift above all gifts.


    Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
    Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

    If we are new creation, the Body of Christ, the Temple of God and all things are new and of God. For it is He that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure. Not us but Christ. For we are dead never the less we live. Yet not us but Christ lives in us. And the life we now live in the flesh, we live by the faith OF the Son of God who gave Himself for us.

    For His Word is in our Heart and mouths. His Law is in our minds and hearts. He has given us His Spirit and IF we are not living accordingly after we have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, we are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with us than the beginning.
    For it had been better for us not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after we have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto us.
    But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
    But we are not of them who draw back unto destruction; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


    (2Pet 2:20-22;Heb 10:39)
     
  3. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You may want to reword this. You are skating on thin ice.

    1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to have already forgiven our sins..." (in the Greek tense, the verb 'forgive' is completed action in the past, though, yes, contingent on present action --i.e. it is necessarily implied by the language that if we do not confess our sin, he will not have already forgiven our sin.)
     
  4. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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  5. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    --------
     
  6. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    I'm not on "thin ice", im on the Rock of Salvation, and that's not Peter.
    Believe it.

    Also, all the born again are "in Christ", and there is no sin in Christ.
    All the born again are "One with God", and there is no sin, in God.

    If you are not born again, then go ahead, Mark, and confess your sin and believe on Jesus.
    If you are born again, then God has redeemed you with His own Blood, and this "one time eternal sacrifice", is why Romans 4:8 tells you that God does not charge SIN to the born, again ever again.
    If you then read 1 John 3:9, you'll read that the born again, "can't sin".
    So, if you are confessing sins, and are born again, then you are not understanding the "Blood Atonement", yet.
    Read my Threads, They will help you get grounded in Grace. Hebrews 13:9
     
  7. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sidon said: There is a Satanic lie that has deceived many believers which exists as the idea that ..if you understand and believe (Blood Atonement)= that all your sin is always forgiven, then you will live like the devil.
    And that is the devil's lie. And he created this lie and perpetuates this lie using people, because as long as you believe it, you will never have the revelation of God's Grace that is your power, your rest, and your total deliverance that leads to your "perfection".
    See....
    Satan wants to keep you away from this, so that you exist as working to achieve what God only provides as the "GIFT of salvation".

    Let me rephrase what I understood you to say: "if you understand and believe that blood atonement means that all your sin is always forgiven, then you will live like the devil as a result of what you believe." Further, you called that belief a Satanic lie.

    I remind you that God says, "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."

    Are you saying you are without sin, now? 1 John 1:9 says in the Greek that if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to have already forgiven us our sins. But even it only says what the translators show, WHY would God bother to put the verse in there, written to the redeemed, already sinless? They are NOT sinless, but forgiven. REDEEMED.

    WHY in the world would I need to read your threads for my spiritual well-being? Is the Bible not what I need to be reading? Who do you think you are???
     
  8. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    If you have "sin", then you are not born again.
    1 John 3:9 says that the born again dont have sin.
    Do you hear me?

    Listen.
    There is no sin found "in Christ".
    There is no sin found, as "ONE WITH GOD, and Chirst".
    You can't have sin, and be "seated in Heavenly Places, in Christ".
    Have you noticed that Lucifer had sin......Do you see him in Heaven, now?
    So, the born again, are "in Christ', "one with God", "seated in heavenly places", and the born again are the "temple of God".
    Do you think that the same God who will not allow sin in Heave, is going to live in the born again as His "Body of Christ" if this body "has sin"?

    So, you need to listen to me, and you need to read my Threads, carefully.
    God can help you to see.
    It's what He does, but He wont force you.
     
  9. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    So if one is made righteous, does this mean they can't sin anymore? And does the term made righteous mean they now possess the righteousness of God?
     
  10. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Wow. You assume you have the full understanding of that verse, its context both small and large, and your reasoning concerning them is without error or bias? No, sir. I most certainly do not need to read your threads. In fact, I think I may need to avoid them. The Bible will serve God's purposes, thank you!

    1 John 3:9 literal "Anyone having been born of God sin not practices (Note the present continuous tense) because seed of him in him abides and not he is able to continue sinning (Note the present continuous tense) because of God he has been born.

    It is true there is no excuse for sin. It is true that sin ruins fellowship with Christ. It is true that sin is unGodly, horrific beyond our comprehension, and is the reason for the death of the Son of God. It is true that he who sins is submitting himself to sin, and is rebelling against his own creator. But it is also true that if we say we have no sin, we are lying. (Also in 1 John, btw)

    You would do well to get off your self-important high horse.
     
  11. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    You found it.

    See, God came here to solve your sin issue, so that you can go to heaven.
    To do this, He had to die on THE Cross, to deal with YOUR SIN, and then once His blood was shed for YOUR SIN, He could then give you "the gift of Righteousness", that is now YOURS, if you are born again, and not just water baptized.

    Notice how this has nothing to do with law or commandments.
    This is GOD resolving all that was keeping you apart from Himself, by offering His very own BLOOD and DEATH.

    = Salvation.
    = Born again.
     
  12. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    You have freewill.
    You get to choose that, Mark.
     
  13. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    I agree with this, to the extent that it means that sin is actually taken away, overcome in us. Although I wouldn’t agree that this means we can’t sin again.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  14. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Implying that Calvinism doesn't allow for choice? There is no choice without freewill? Calvinism demands that we all do choose.

    Believe it or not, I have been in the habit for years of saying I believe in freewill, by which I mean to say we have real, effective, choice, with even eternal consequences. I do not, by that, mean our choices are without limits or constraints or causation. Our choices are effects, not just causes.
     
  15. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    Our NT says that "Christ BECAME our sin". and the born again become "the righteousness OF GOD>............in Christ", when we are born again.
    See that?
    The born again become...>"the righteousness of God".


    And a person says....>"what is that".

    Well, this happens because Jesus, who is God, BECAME THE SIN, of the Born again and died.
    So, there goes the sin.

    The raw analogy of this amazing transfer is......God on the Cross became the sin of the born again, and we were "made righteous" because He did.
    The born again were given "the GIFT of Righteousness", which is what we BECOME, if we are not just water baptized, but are BORN AGAIN.

    We are born again CLEAN from Sin, because God has died FOR our Sin.

    The dead spirit in a person, is BORN AGAIN, AS God's very righteousness, as "made righteous.""

    SALVATION is God dealing with your sin, using HIS BLOOD AND BODY, and then He imparts, or gives to the person who has Faith in Christ....>"justification BY FAITH". AS. "the Gift of Salvation".

    This means that "faith is counted as RIGHTEOUSNESS".

    God takes your sin, and He gives you His Righteous, because you have given God your Faith in Christ.

    This is "the GIFT of Salvation", which is proven to have occurred, only by one situation.

    = Born Again.
     
  16. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    For sin to be taken away and overcome we now have the power and possibility to ‘go, and sin no more’ -John 8:11

    “For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.” Rom 8:3-4

    “Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.”Rom 8:12-13
     
  17. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea what you are talking about.
    We have had no discussion where we have talked about "calvinism".

    Have you confused me with another member?

    Now, we can talk about JC if you like.
    Sure.

    Im not a hyper calvanist.
    I understand that God can't hold me accountable for what He made me do.
    This means that God can't send me to hell for rejecting Christ, if He caused me to reject Christ.
    So, that type of crazy theology, isn't a part of the NT, or Paul's doctrine, but it is a part of the belief system of many who have been deceived by people who twisted a couple of verses.
     
  18. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    Sin is taken away by Christ's blood, or you still have yours.
    Bottomline.
    You are born again, or you are not.
    This isn't a process, and its not a self effort.
     
  19. MMXX

    MMXX Well-Known Member

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    Just a reminder, this isn't something the OP invented. I've heard it pretty much verbatim from others like Hank Lindstrom, Ralph Arnold, Bob Wilkin and Zane Hodges etc. Attack the theology, not the person presenting it.
     
  20. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    God came here, as Jesus, to offer His blood and body for our sin.

    We can't do that for ourselves.

    The way that God applies that blood atonement, is "justification by Faith".
    We give God our faith in Christ, which God accepts, as "faith is counted AS righteousness"< = and God applies to us His blood and death, as our Eternal Salvation. This is how we become "born again".
    Its a free GIFT.
    "the Gift of Salvation".
    "the Gift of Righteousness".
     
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