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GOD'S DIETARY LAWS AND BAT SOUP STEW - COVID 19

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Dec 7, 2020.

  1. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Great post bella, that answers Q3 in the OP really well. I was also saying to someone else in the thread that brought up a similar point showing that sometimes healthy foods can become unhealthy if not eaten in moderation or if we have allergies. Sometimes a healthy food can be poisonous. For example for me and onions. For most people this is healthy and adds great flavor to our food and is a wonderful vegetable. For me however it does not react well with my body and is like a poison my body finds hard to digest even though I love the taste of eating them in my food. Lucky for me though I am not allergic to shallots and spring onions and garlic. Thanks for sharing your experience bella I am sure it might help some here :).
     
  2. chad kincham

    chad kincham Well-Known Member

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    That’s true, but it’s been established that particular bat was not being sold in Wuhan, that they claim the virus came from.

    The virus was weaponized in a lab, and escaped or was released.
     
  3. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not really Chad but thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. Everything you have posted here has already been addressed. Perhaps you missed it. Please see post # 37 linked above.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hi Bruce, welcome and thanks for sharing your view. I do not believe it is biblical however as JESUS and Paul never taught that all foods are now clean. This has been addressed in detail through the scriptures post # 37 linked linked above. In that post I did not address Romans 14 so let's discuss that one here...

    ROMANS 14:2,3,5,6,14,17,20

    The New Testament writers referred to two concepts of unclean, using different Greek words to convey the two meanings. Unclean could refer to animals God did not intend to be consumed as food (listed in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14). Unclean could also refer to ceremonial uncleanness.

    In Romans 14 Paul uses the word koinos, which means “common” (W.E. Vine, Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, 1985, “Unclean,” p. 649). In addition to the meanings of “common” and “ordinary” (see Acts 2:44; Acts 4:32; Titus 1:4; Hebrews 10:29), the word also applied to things considered polluted or defiled. This word, along with its verb form koinoo, is used in Mark 7:2, Mark 7:15-23, where it obviously refers to ceremonial uncleanness.

    Koinos and koinoo appear throughout the New Testament to refer to this kind of ceremonial uncleanness. Something could be “common”—ceremonially unclean—even though it was otherwise considered a scripturally clean meat.

    An entirely different word, akathartos, is used in the New Testament for those animals Scripture specifies as unclean. Both words, koinos and akathartos, are used in Acts 10, where Peter distinguished between the two concepts of uncleanness by using both words in Acts 10:14.

    When Paul said in Romans 14:14 that “I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean [ koinos, or ‘common’] of itself,” he was making the same point he had made earlier to the Corinthians: Just because meat that was otherwise lawful to eat may have been associated with idol worship does not mean it is no longer fit for human consumption. As seen from the context, Paul wasn’t discussing biblical dietary restrictions at all.

    Paul goes on to state in Romans 14:20 that “all food is clean” (NIV). The word translated “clean” is katharos, meaning “free from impure admixture, without blemish, spotless” (Vine, “Clean, Cleanness, Cleanse, Cleansing,” p. 103).

    “Clean” meats as such aren’t addressed in the New Testament, so there isn’t a specific word to describe them. Katharos is used to describe all kinds of cleanliness and purity, including clean dishes (Matthew 23:26), people (John 13:10) and clothing (Revelation 15:6; Revelation 19:8-14), “pure” religion (James 1:27), gold and glass (Revelation 21:18).

    Realize also that, in both Romans 14:14 and Romans 14:20, the word food or meat doesn’t appear in the original Greek, but was inserted by later translators. No specific object is mentioned relative to cleanness or uncleanness. The sense of these verses is merely that “nothing [is] unclean [ koinos: common or ceremonially defiled] of itself,” and “all is clean [ katharos: free from impure admixture, without blemish, spotless].”

    Paul’s point is that association of food with idolatrous activity had no bearing on whether the food was inherently suitable or unsuitable for eating. Understood in its context, Romans 14 does not convey permission to ignore the biblical laws as to which meats are clean or unclean.

    Hope this is helpful and thanks for sharing Bruce
     
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  5. chad kincham

    chad kincham Well-Known Member

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    Laws of clean and unclean animals were ceremonial, as shown by God allowing every animal to be eaten, before Mosaic law was given:

    Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
     
  6. chad kincham

    chad kincham Well-Known Member

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    You can spin it, but the truth won’t change.
     
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  7. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Nope they are health laws. They are not ceremonial laws. A ceremonial law is one that is related to external rites relating to religion. Health laws are laws relating to human health.

    WEBSTERS DICTIONARY

    CEREMONIAL, a. [See Ceremony.]

    1. Relating to ceremony, or external rite; ritual; according to the forms of established rites; as ceremonial exactness. It is particularly applied to the forms and rites of the Jewish religion; as the ceremonial law or worship, as distinguished from the moral and judicial law.

    2. Formal; observant of old forms; exact; precise in manners.

    [In this sense, ceremonious is now used.]

    CEREMONIAL, n.

    1. Outward form; external rite, or established forms or rites, including all the forms prescribed; a system of rules and ceremonies, enjoined by law or established by custom, whether in religious worship, in social intercourse, or in the courts of princes.

    2. The order for rites and forms in the Romish church, or the book containing the rules prescribed to be observed on solemn occasions.

    .................

    CONCLUSION: So no, the health laws for God's people are not ceremonial as they have nothing to do with external rites of religion.
     
  8. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well that is not true as I haven't spun anything. Post # 37 linked only provides scripture proving your claims were not biblical. You are free to believe as you wish though. I do not judge you. That is between you and God. I only wish you well and good health dear friend. :)
     
  9. chad kincham

    chad kincham Well-Known Member

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    This is a ridiculous claim.

    The only way Peter knew gentiles could be included in the new covenant is because He realized that if there are no unclean animals anymore, because God had cleansed them, then gentiles were no longer unclean for eating pork, and that’s why he said God showed him they aren’t unclean now.

    You also can’t spin the fact that before Mosaic law was given, GOD SAID EVERY ANIMAL THAT MOVES IS FOOD:

    Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

    That fact alone proves that unclean animals in Mosaic law were CEREMONIAL laws, that ended.

    Whatever term you call it - ceremonial, ritual, you name it, the law of clean and unclean animals is defunct.

    Period.
     
  10. chad kincham

    chad kincham Well-Known Member

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    I’m not going to go in circles with you.

    You’re wrong, and there are no unclean animals today in Gods law.

    Shalom.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2020
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  11. Heavenhome

    Heavenhome Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes China is continuing to ban a lot of our exports. Beef, seafood, wine etc.
    I remember my sister going to China years back and telling us their guide said " if it walks, crawls, flies, we eat it".:eek:

    Its just horrific, but the rest of the world aren't innocent either: France, Belgium, Italy, etc eating horsemeat. Often the end for horses (racehorses, ponies, etc) in most countries seems to be the slaughter yard. (breaks my heart).
    The whole concept of "modern" farming- nothing more than factory farming.
    The list goes on..........:(
     
  12. Redwingfan9

    Redwingfan9 Well-Known Member

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    The entirety of Christendom, papist, protestant and Orthodox completely disagree with your position. In fact, your position is incredibly rare in church history. I find that in 2000 years if basically no one believes in a position or if something is only "discovered" recently it is usually false.
     
  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Actually nope. As posted earlier, Acts 10 has nothing to do with God saying that unclean foods are now clean to eat. Peter had a vision from God showing him that Gentiles are no longer to be considered unclean. Peter did not interpret the vision given him as God saying all unclean foods are now clean. His interpretation of the dream was that Gentiles now considered clean and to go and share the gospel with them.

    Here let's look at the detail in the scriptures...

    Acts of the Apostles 10:1-28
    1, There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, 2, A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always. 3, He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. 4, And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. 5, And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter: 6, He lodges with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what you should do. 7, And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually; 8, And when he had declared all these things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.................

    9, On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:

    10, And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,

    11, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

    12, Wherein were all manner of four footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

    13, And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

    14, But Peter said, NOT SO LORD FOR I HAVE NEVER EATEN ANYTHING THAT IS UNCLEAN AND COMMON.

    15, And the voice spake unto him again the second time, WHAT GOD HAS CLEANSED, THAT DO NOT CALL COMMON.

    16, This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

    17, Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

    Note: Now the question here to consider is what was it that God had cleansed and we should not call common, this is what Peter was thinking about. While Peter was thinking about what was the meaning of the vision The praying gentile that believed God was at his gate asking for Peter...

    18, And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.

    19, While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.

    20, Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

    What was it that God was teaching Peter.....

    27, And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.

    Note: Peters interpretation of the vision is shown in v28 here...

    28, And he said unto them, YOU KNOW THAT IT IS AN UNLAWFUL THING FOR A MAN THAT IS A JEW TO KEEP COMPANY, OR COME UNTO ONE OF ANOTHER NATION; BUT GOD HAS SHOWN ME THAT I SHOULD NOT CALL ANY MAN COMMON OR UNCLEAN

    ................

    CONCLUSION: The vision was not about saying that all foods are clean but that now all man are clean and that the Jewish believers can preach the Gospel to the Gentiles. These are God's Word dear friend not mine. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. I do not judge you. I believe your trying to read into the scriptures what the scriptures do not say or teach. We will have to agree to disagree.

    All the best.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
  14. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not really dear friend. Some agree and some disagree. That does not make the scriptures shared with you not true. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29. All those religions you listed above do not even agree with each other, so how are you going to know who is right and who is wrong and what God's Word says? Your looking for the truth of God's Word in all the wrong places.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
  15. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hi HH, thanks for joining us here and sharing your view. Yes I agree. When I was looking at some of the photos on the net yesterday for this OP. It is not limited to China but is a world-wide problem. It is possibly more of a problem in some countries more then others but definitely world-wide. It is saddening as I do not like to see animal cruelty at all and I am sure this was not God's plan for His creation. Thanks for sharing

    God bless.
     
  16. section9+1

    section9+1 Well-Known Member

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    I think there's a lot of grossness going on that I have no interest in supporting. No bat stew for me. Yet, these dietary laws were for the Jews who promised to obey them. My ancestors were off in northern Europe worshipping rocks and trees when Moses came off Mt. Sinai and never promised to obey anything. There's a difference in what cannot be eaten and what should not be eaten. There's no law against eating pine 2x4's but it just shouldn't be done. Maybe some things don't make good food, but eating them will break no laws. The only real universal admonitions I can see is what God told Noah and his sons after the flood and don't eat meat sacrificed to idols.
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    Noah was not a Jew. But he distinguished between clean and unclean animals just as God instructed.

    Dogs, bats, rats and cats are not what God made for humans to it... according to God.

    Lev 11 : 2 ‘These are the creatures which you may eat from -

    43 Do not make yourselves detestable through any of the swarming things that swarm; and you shall not make yourselves unclean with them so that you become unclean. 44 For I am the Lord your God. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy, because I am holy. And you shall not make yourselves unclean with any of the swarming things that swarm on the earth.

    46 This is the law regarding the animal and the bird, and every living thing that moves in the waters and everything that swarms on the earth, 47 to make a distinction between the unclean and the clean, and between the edible creature and the creature which is not to be eaten.

    Is 66:14
    And the hand of the Lord will be made known to His servants,
    But He will be indignant toward His enemies.

    15 For behold, the Lord will come in fire,
    And His chariots like the whirlwind,
    To render His anger with fury,
    And His rebuke with flames of fire.
    16 For the Lord will execute judgment by fire
    And by His sword on humanity,

    And those put to death by the Lord will be many.
    17 “Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens,
    Following one in the center,
    Who eat pig’s flesh, detestable things, and mice,
    Will come to an end altogether,” declares the Lord.

    1 Cor 6
    . 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20 For you have been bought for a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

    1Cor 3
    16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy that person; for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

    So that addresses everything from being a drug addict, to eating poison, to eating a "2x4" as you mentioned.
     
  18. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Who established it and it could have ben kept by someone at home---the fatten them up sometimes first.
     
  19. Redwingfan9

    Redwingfan9 Well-Known Member

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    It's rare to get consensus agreement on theological issues. When Papists, Protestants and Orthodox agree on something it means they're right.
     
  20. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You haven't got consensus dear friend, especially in scripture so your premise is false to begin with. You are free to believe as you wish though. :)
     
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