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GOD'S DIETARY LAWS AND BAT SOUP STEW - COVID 19

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Dec 7, 2020.

  1. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Not really John. The scriptures shared with you earlier show the context of Romans 14 in post # 375 that you are yet to respond to and prove that Romans 14 is not talking about God's dietary laws but is talking about eating and not eating (fasting) on days that men esteem over other days and judging others in this regard. There is no mention there of God's clean and unclean food laws just the same there is no mention of anyone of God's 10 commandments.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2021
  2. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Then we should read what the bible actually says and not try to read into God's Word what it does not say. Post # 375 uses scripture context to prove that Romans 14 was not talking about God's dietary laws. If you disagree then please use scripture to prove your teachings that Gods dietary laws have been abolished? So far you haven't.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2021
  3. johnbunyan

    johnbunyan New Member

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    I'm talking sola scripture here, you are trying desperately to overturn it. That's the only point of interest for me
     
  4. johnbunyan

    johnbunyan New Member

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    No need for that. Sola scripture states ALL food is clean. It does not say: All food apart from dietry laws are clean does it. So you have to throw sola scripture out to suit your personal beliefs
     
  5. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Not at all John. I have only provided the scripture context you left out of Romans 14 proving that Romans 14 is not talking about God's dietary laws in post # 375. I ask you to show me scripture that says Gods' dietary laws have now been abolished and you have not provided any so what do you have for your teachings? - Nothing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2021
  6. johnbunyan

    johnbunyan New Member

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    Anyone can use their personal context to overturn sola scripture can't they. That's all you are doing here. The plain words of the bible state: All(all) food is clean. All means all my friend, no exceptions at all.
     
  7. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Of course there is need to prove our claims John. You claim that Romans 14 is talking about God's dietary laws by taking a few scriptures from their context. I added the scripture context back showing that Romans 14 is not talking about God's dietary laws in post # 375 . I believe the scriptures shared with you prove what your claiming is unbiblical. In response all I am hearing from you is silence. If you disagree your welcome to show why you disagree from the scriptures and be addressing the post contents shared with you. Disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing without showing why your disagree is simply being disagreeable and not proving anything.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2021
  8. johnbunyan

    johnbunyan New Member

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    I don't have to prove anything in regard to sola scripture here. For sola scripture plainly states: All food is clean. You are the one who is trying to overturn sola scripture(according to its definition) aren't you.
     
  9. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Not really dear friend. The scriptures shared with you show you have taken scripture out of their context and applied an interpretation to them which is not what is written in the scriptures. I only provided the scripture context to surrounding scripture you posted that proves your scriptures takes from their context does not support your interpretation of them as shown in post # 375. This is sola scriptura. Ignoring scripture context that proves why your teaching is in error is not practicing sola scriptura. The linked post above proves that Romans 14 is not talking about God's dietary laws with the scripture context you left out.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2021
  10. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Sure you need to prove your claims if sola scriptura is used to prove what your claiming is not true as already shown in the scripture context you left out of Romans 14 as shown in post # 375 showing that Romans 14 was not talking about God's dietary laws.
     
  11. johnbunyan

    johnbunyan New Member

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    Really?
    Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.
    I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean.

    All I am doing is applying the English language to the verses quoted. You are the one seeking to overturn sola scripture here, not me. I will leave you to your contradictions. Goodbye dear friend
     
  12. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Yes really. Read the scripture context you leave out proving that Romans 14 is not even talking about Gods' dietary laws...

    ROMANS 14:2,3,5,6,14,17,20 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteems any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

    The New Testament writers referred to two concepts of unclean, using different Greek words to convey the two meanings. Unclean could refer to animals God did not intend to be consumed as food (listed in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14). Unclean could also refer to ceremonial uncleanness.

    In Romans 14 Paul uses the word koinos, which means “common” (W.E. Vine, Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, 1985, “Unclean,” p. 649). In addition to the meanings of “common” and “ordinary” (see Acts 2:44; Acts 4:32; Titus 1:4; Hebrews 10:29), the word also applied to things considered polluted or defiled. This word, along with its verb form koinoo, is used in Mark 7:2, Mark 7:15-23, where it obviously refers to ceremonial uncleanness.

    Koinos and koinoo appear throughout the New Testament to refer to this kind of ceremonial uncleanness. Something could be “common”—ceremonially unclean—even though it was otherwise considered a scripturally clean meat.

    An entirely different word, akathartos, is used in the New Testament for those animals Scripture specifies as unclean. Both words, koinos and akathartos, are used in Acts 10, where Peter distinguished between the two concepts of uncleanness by using both words in Acts 10:14.

    When Paul said in Romans 14:14 that “I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean [ koinos, or ‘common’] of itself,” he was making the same point he had made earlier to the Corinthians: Just because meat that was otherwise lawful to eat may have been associated with idol worship does not mean it is no longer fit for human consumption. As seen from the context, Paul wasn’t discussing biblical dietary restrictions at all.

    Paul goes on to state in Romans 14:20 that “all food is clean” (NIV). The word translated “clean” is katharos, meaning “free from impure admixture, without blemish, spotless” (Vine, “Clean, Cleanness, Cleanse, Cleansing,” p. 103).

    “Clean” meats as such aren’t addressed in the New Testament, so there isn’t a specific word to describe them. Katharos is used to describe all kinds of cleanliness and purity, including clean dishes (Matthew 23:26), people (John 13:10) and clothing (Revelation 15:6; Revelation 19:8-14), “pure” religion (James 1:27), gold and glass (Revelation 21:18).

    Realize also that, in both Romans 14:14 and Romans 14:20, the word food or meat doesn’t appear in the original Greek, but was inserted by later translators. No specific object is mentioned relative to cleanness or uncleanness. The sense of these verses is merely that “nothing [is] unclean [ koinos: common or ceremonially defiled] of itself,” and “all is clean [katharos: free from impure admixture, without blemish, spotless].”

    We can also see as Romans 14:14 is continued in Romans 14:15 that says [15], But if your brother be grieved with your meat (G1033;βρῶμα; Broma), now walk you not charitably. Destroy not him with your meat, for whom Christ died. Paul is talking about food that God's Word already defines as being lawful for eating from Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14.

    Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G1033

    βρῶμα (brōma | bro'-mah)
    Derivation: from the base of G977;
    Strong's: food (literally or figuratively), especially (ceremonially) articles allowed or forbidden by the Jewish law
    KJV: —meat, victuals.

    Paul’s point is that association of food with idolatrous activity had no bearing on whether the food was inherently suitable or unsuitable for eating. Understood in its context, Romans 14 does not convey permission to ignore the biblical laws as to which meats are clean or unclean..

    ....................

    SUMMARY: Romans 14 nowhere is talking about abolishing God's dietary laws. I am still waiting for a response to the scriptures provided here that prove why the scriptures you provided separated from their context is not talking about God's dietary laws.

    .....................

    Let's talk more latter when you have some scripture talking about God's dietary laws. For now we will have to agree to disagree.

    Nice talking to you.
     
  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    There is no scripture that says that God's dietary laws have been abolished in the new testament.
     
  14. bbbbbbb

    bbbbbbb Well-Known Member

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    There is also no scripture prohibiting veneration of Mary and the saints. Nor is the any scripture permitting the use of automobiles.
     
  15. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Sure there is Exodus 20:3-5
     
  16. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    What is the difference between veneration and worship?

    In response to the accusation that they worship Mary and the saints, Catholics will often claim that they “venerate,” not worship, them. To venerate is to regard with great respect or to revere. Veneration can be defined as “respect or awe directed toward someone due to his/her value or greatness.”

    The simplest definition of worship is to “ascribe worth.” Worship can be more completely defined as “showing respect, love, reverence, or adoration.” Based on the dictionary, no clear difference between veneration and worship exists. In fact, veneration and worship are often used as synonyms for each other.

    But dictionary definitions are not the point. It does not matter what it is called. The Bible nowhere instructs followers of Jesus Christ to offer worship, veneration, adoration, or anything similar to anyone but God. Nowhere does the New Testament describe any followers of Jesus Christ worshiping, venerating, or adoring anyone other than God. They did not receive worship, either. Peter refused to receive adoration from Cornelius (Acts 10:25–26), and Paul and Barnabas were equally adamant that the people of Lystra not venerate them (Acts 14:15). Twice in the Book of Revelation (Revelation 19:10; 22:8), the apostle John begins to worship an angel, and the angel instructs him, “Worship God!” Mary and the saints who have gone to heaven before us would say the same thing: “Worship God!”

    The Catholic Church has different degrees of worship: dulia, hyper dulia, and latria. Dulia is the honor given to the saints. Hyper dulia is the honor given to Mary alone, as the greatest of the saints. Latria is the honor given to God alone. In contrast, the Bible always ascribes honor, in the context of worship, to God alone (1 Chronicles 29:11; 1 Timothy 1:17; 6:16; Revelation 4:11; 5:13). Even if there were biblical support for different levels of worship, there still would be no biblical support for offering lower/lesser levels of worship to anyone other than God.

    Only God is worthy of worship, adoration, praise (Nehemiah 9:6; Revelation 4:11; 15:4), and veneration, no matter how it is defined. Mary’s worth comes from the fact that God choose her for a glorious role and saved her from her sins through the death of Jesus Christ (Luke 1:47). The saints’ worth comes from the fact that God saved them, transformed them, and then used them in mighty and amazing ways. May we all, with Mary and the saints, fall on our knees and worship the only One who is worthy. (Source)

    Hope this is helpful
     
  17. Freth

    Freth Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm late to the thread. I'm sure all scriptural avenues have already been discussed by page 21, especially given the thoroughness of LoveGodsWord. And so I'll just touch on scripture and appeal to sensibilities instead.

    The Temple of God and Dwelling Place of the Holy Spirit

    1 Corinthians 3:16-17 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

    1 Corinthians 6:19-20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
    Knowing this alone, why would any Christian want to defile the temple of God?

    Disease Caused By Diet

    Heart disease, cancer and type-2 diabetes are the leading causes of death in the United States, alone, but somehow diet gets a pass, even though it's been proven to be a major contributing factor.

    The Cake and Eat It Too!

    Are people in denial about how serious diet is to the health of the body? I believe so. We would rather eat what we want and accept the health consequences than change our eating habits. I'm speaking from experience here, I gorged on every bad food I could get my hands on.

    I have type-2 diabetes, thanks to my eating habits. Thankfully, with life changes I am able to keep it in check. I had to change my diet and make a concerted effort to get regular exercise. I was considered obese by medical standards, weighing in at 240lbs as a 5'8" male.

    It's easy to stay in a cycle of denial and binge-eating your favorite foods, but it does catch up to you eventually.

    Sin Too?

    People will tell themselves what they want to hear, or ignore completely what they know to be true. That diet kills.

    But what about sin? Doesn't sin kill too? Yes, it does. Sin is transgression of the law. Isn't defiling the temple of God a sin? Yes, it is. Then what is left to debate?

    Christians will tell themselves sin is okay, just like they will tell themselves that a bad diet is okay; or worse, completely ignore any responsibility on their own part.

    Conclusion

    In my mind, any teaching God has given concerning health and well-being should be obeyed. Indulgences will lead to much worse habits. We should be disciplined and mindful of the gift God gave us, our bodies as temples of the almighty God.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
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  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    Imagine all the things that could be "venerated" (prayed to, bowed before, vows made to , help wisdom and guidance pleaded from) under the "that's not pertaining to veneration" definition.

    Let's suppose that you "pray to" those whom you consider to have value or greatness or whom you regard as living a sanctified or holy life.

    You bow before them, you pray to them, you ask them to watch over you and you confess to them your sins. Sure they are your neighbor but they are very very good Christians in your view and you value them and believe them to be in some sense holy and great in the sense of dedication to God.

    My guess is that even the Catholic church would "object" to that "veneration".

    BTW what does this have to do with eating bats?
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2021
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