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GOD'S DIETARY LAWS AND BAT SOUP STEW - COVID 19

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Dec 7, 2020.

  1. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    Law is not abolished, but it may be that some things have been cleaned so that they are not anymore unclean.

    … "What God has cleansed, you must not call unclean."
    Acts 10:15

    And that is why some people think it is ok to eat anything.
     
  2. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Goodness I am in shock imge. In that video of the squid in the previous page, I felt sad for that animal. It seemed like a form of torture they were doing to it before eating it. I did not know they did such things in China to be honest. How bad is that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
  3. Redwingfan9

    Redwingfan9 Well-Known Member

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    Q1: No. Dietary laws were ceremonial in nature and done away with in Christ as are all ceremonial laws. These are not criminal codes but merely symbolic in nature.

    Q2: Chinese Coronavirus may be a judgment but not because abolished dietary laws aren't being followed. Beyond that, there is no evidence that bat soup caused the transmission of the virus. That was debunked six months ago.

    Q3: there is no such thing as clean and unclean anymore as the cleanliness laws were ceremonial and done away with in Christ. If you want to enforce these laws then you must argue for the enforcement of all ceremonial cleanliness laws, including those women who are menstruating or have recently given birth. I find that those seeking to enforce dietary laws often fall silent when women are declared unclean for 14 days around their period.
     
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Good point 1213, although Acts of the Apostles 10:15 is not talking about clean and unclean meat but is in reference to Gentiles now being clean in God's eyes and has nothing to do with God making unclean foods clean. The context of Acts 10:15 is shown in Acts of the Apostles 10:14-28 showing that the reference here is to Gentile believers.

    God bless
     
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  5. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi Red, nice to meet you and welcome. Do you have scripture to support your views? Thanks for sharing what you think with us but no, none of the dietary laws were ceremonial, they are God's health laws. The scriptures teach that there is no such thing as clean and unclean people between Jewish and Gentile believers but there is no scripture that says that there is no longer any difference between clean and unclean foods.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
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  6. bèlla

    bèlla ❤️ Supporter

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    There's a video on YouTube about the fur trade in China. The animals are kept in horrid conditions. They develop deformities. What appears to be rocks on the ground is stool and the stench is unspeakable.

    Watching it was difficult. Who could treat anyone that way? Let alone an animal. There were so many rabbits. It made my heart sick.

    You can't live in an environment that doesn't regard creation and expect a good outcome. Baseness will take over. We violate the helpless frequently. And we enjoy it. What have we come to?

    Yours in His Service,

    ~bella
     
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  7. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi bella, all these things also make me feel sad. It is a kind of torture to the animals. I was saying to someone else earlier even in the squid video I posted in the previous page, I felt sad for that animal. It seemed like a form of torture they were doing to it before eating it. I did not know they did such things in China to be honest. How bad is that? I love all of God's animals and creation. I think that would also make God feel sad. Thanks for sharing.

    God bless
     
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  8. Redwingfan9

    Redwingfan9 Well-Known Member

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    You have zero scriptural backing for the notion that God had health laws that were separate and distinct from cleanliness laws. In fact, animals such as pigs were called unclean. These laws were meant to make Israel different from her pagan neighbors. Gal 3:22-25 indicates that Christians are not subject to Jewish ceremonial law, in that passage the subject is sacrifice and circumcision. It is applicable to all ceremonial law. Jesus in Matt 5:17 indicates he will fulfill the law, ie the ceremonial law. Additionally Col 2:16 frees us to eat foods that would have been considered unclean as they were sacrificed to pagan gods.
     
  9. bèlla

    bèlla ❤️ Supporter

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    That reminds me of the monkey. I saw it on a TV program. This is a simulation. He isn't harmed. But they show you the process. I don't think God would approve of this or anything like it.

    Yours in His Service,

    ~bella
     
  10. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    In general, we are given two principles to understand this from the new testament:

    1) If you don't think you should be eating it, then don't.
    2) If it causes harm, do not eat it. Furthermore, if it is okay for everyone else but you are allergic, then don't eat it.

    Since the dietary laws are too complex to remember when we have other more important things to focus on, the summaries will suffice.
     
  11. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    The "dietary" laws as you call them were considered part of the ceremonial laws. If you think otherwise, I welcome for you to demonstrate such a distinction.

    Peter's vision in Acts 10 is very important as it not only shows how the ceremonial laws are no longer applicable, but it shows how there is no longer a distinction between Jew and Gentile.

    When once the barrier was removed that separated the Jews and Gentiles, all the laws which were founded on such a distinction, and which were framed to keep up such a distinction, passed away of course. The ceremonial laws of the Jews were designed solely to keep up the distinction between them and other nations.

    When the distinction was abolished; when other nations were to be admitted to the same privileges, the laws which were made to keep up such a difference received their death-blow, and expired of course. For it is a maxim of all law, that when the reason why a law was made ceases to exist, the law becomes obsolete.

    Yet it was not easy to convince the Jews that their laws ceased to be binding. This point the apostles labored to establish; and from this point arose most of the difficulties between the Jewish and Gentile converts to Christianity.

    Also look at Mark 7, Jesus declares that it's not what goes into us that defiles us, but what comes out. This has always historically been understood as Jesus acknowledging that the OT dietary laws are no longer applicable now that He has come.

    Also Look at I Timothy 4:4-5. Paul declares that everything created by God is good and that nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude.

    Bottom line is that we are free to eat whatever we want. Now, I'm not saying we should become gluttons, or eat things that will make us sick. But it's not a sin to consume any specific food at this point.

    And honestly, all those pictures you show, really just show your ignorance and your spoiledness as a Westerner with access to healthier foods. You come across as arrogant, judgmental, ignorant, and condescending. Not everyone is going to find what you find good, nor is everyone going to have access to the same quality food as you do.
     
  12. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Well that is not true dear friend. Have a read of the OP. The dietary laws are found in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. These laws are God's dietary laws given to God's people as God is our creator and knows what is good for us to eat and not good for us to eat. Health laws are not ceremonial laws. Galatians 3:22-25 is not talking about Jewish ceremonial law. Matthew 5:17 is talking about all law both ceremonial and moral laws as JESUS needed to obey them all in order to be our perfect sacrifice for sin and it was the ceremonial laws that pointed to him. Colossians 2:16 says nothing about eating clean and unclean meats so do I do not understand your point here. Happy to talk scripture though if you want to discuss the detail and context to examine yours claims as it may be helpful to the discussion.

    Blessings.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2020
  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Yea thanks bella, I hate hearing about those kinds of stories. It is a shame that governments in any country would tolerate these practices. I saw some photos from the Chinese and African food markets where people kill and sell monkeys for food. Your correct, I believe that is not why God created animals for mankind. We have fallen far from God's plan of creation for mankind. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here.
     
  14. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Good advice in this post Michael. Your point 2 was something I was not considering when I wrote the question in the OP but makes a lot of sense. For me as an example onions for most people are a healthy and tasty food but for me being allergic to them, my body does not tolerate them so I cannot eat them as they are like a poison. Thanks for sharing. Good points.
     
  15. lismore

    lismore Maranatha

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  16. bèlla

    bèlla ❤️ Supporter

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    Threads like this are important. We need our minds broadened and hearts touched. :)

    I've mentioned my dietary mandates in the health forum. But I'll expound here. The Lord began removing food a few years ago. The obvious ones were harmful. Like refined sugars and flours. He revealed products that appeared okay and forbade me from eating them.

    Like a favorite cookie from Whole Foods (pre-Amazon) whose recipe changed. It made my teeth hurt. I didn't know why. They weren't using organic sugar anymore. My body responded negatively. Then He said no baked goods. I had to make them myself or go to a bakery. Because of the yeast. It wasn't natural. That's why many have health issues.

    He kept whittling away and pushing me in a different direction. Now I purchase meat from a farmer who supplies restaurants. I know what I'm getting. I've switched to ancient grains and whole grains. I'm going further down the rabbit hole.

    He gave me a weight standard too. It doesn't matter what the doctor said. The Physician spoke and that's the number. I've been healed and encouraged to use natural remedies and products at home.

    Clothing is the next item. I've chosen to limit myself to natural fibers. I sew and I can make my own wardrobe. Small changes yield big results over time. Honoring His directives is a must. He knows what's best.

    We're inundated with chemicals and bad food. Its killing us. We need to get on God's page and allow Him to manage our diet and lifestyle.

    Yours in His Service,

    ~bella
     
  17. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    The dietary laws have never been considered "ceremonial" laws and there is no scripture that states that they ever were considered "ceremonial" laws.

    WEBSTERS DICTIONARY

    CEREMONIAL, a. [See Ceremony.]

    1. Relating to ceremony, or external rite; ritual; according to the forms of established rites; as ceremonial exactness. It is particularly applied to the forms and rites of the Jewish religion; as the ceremonial law or worship, as distinguished from the moral and judicial law.

    2. Formal; observant of old forms; exact; precise in manners.

    [In this sense, ceremonious is now used.]

    CEREMONIAL, n.

    1. Outward form; external rite, or established forms or rites, including all the forms prescribed; a system of rules and ceremonies, enjoined by law or established by custom, whether in religious worship, in social intercourse, or in the courts of princes.

    2. The order for rites and forms in the Romish church, or the book containing the rules prescribed to be observed on solemn occasions.

    So no, the health laws for God's people are not ceremonial as they have nothing to do with external rites of religion.
    Actually no. Acts 10 has nothing to do with God saying that unclean foods are now clean. Peter had a vision from God showing him that Gentiles are not unclean. Peter did not interpret the vision given him as saying all unclean foods are now clean. His interpretation of the dream was that Gentiles are clean and it is ok to share the gospel with them. Here let's look at the detail in the scriptures...

    Acts of the Apostles 10:1-28
    1, There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, 2, A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always. 3, He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. 4, And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. 5, And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter: 6, He lodges with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what you should do. 7, And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually; 8, And when he had declared all these things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.................

    9, On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:

    10, And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,

    11, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

    12, Wherein were all manner of four footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

    13, And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

    14, But Peter said, NOT SO LORD FOR I HAVE NEVER EATEN ANYTHING THAT IS UNCLEAN AND COMMON.

    15, And the voice spake unto him again the second time, WHAT GOD HAS CLEANSED, THAT DO NOT CALL COMMON.

    16, This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

    17, Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

    Now the question here to consider is what was it that God had cleansed and we should not call common, this is what Peter was thinking about. While Peter was thinking about what was the meaning of the vision The praying gentile that believed God was at his gate asking for Peter...

    18, And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.

    19, While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.

    20, Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

    What was it that God was teaching Peter.....

    27, And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.

    28, And he said unto them, YOU KNOW THAT IT IS AN UNLAWFUL THING FOR A MAN THAT IS A JEW TO KEEP COMPANY, OR COME UNTO ONE OF ANOTHER NATION; BUT GOD HAS SHOWN ME THAT I SHOULD NOT CALL ANY MAN COMMON OR UNCLEAN

    ................

    CONCLUSION: The vision was not about saying that all foods are clean but that now all man are clean and that the Jewish believers can preach the Gospel to the Gentiles.
    Mark 7:15, 18-19 These scriptures are a repetition of Matthew 15 where JESUS is showing that it is not the washing hands, plates or cups that defiles a man but sin that originates in the heart of man. Jesus does not say anywhere that there is now no longer clean and unclean dietary laws so what you claim here is not biblical. There is no scripture that says God has abolished the dietary laws and JESUS definitely does not say this in Matthew 15 or Mark 7.
    When we read this scripture it does not say what you are claiming here but lets show why. The scripture in Timothy 4 says...

    1 Timothy 4:4-5 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

    This is a reference of food that can be eaten that is sanctified by the word of God. This is a reference back to what foods God says are clean and unclean not a reference saying you can eat anything as that would not be sanctified by the Word of God. The Word of God says to make a difference between what is clean to eat and what is not clean to eat in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14
    As shown above, you have provided no scripture to support your bottom line. There is no scripture that says God's dietary laws are abolished in fact the scriptures teach the opposite as already shown in the OP and even state just before the second coming...

    Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, EATING SWINES FLESH, and THE ABOMINATION, AND THE MOUSE, SHALL BE CONSUMED TOGETHER, SAYS THE LORD.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
  18. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Wow, thanks lismore, I know China is wanting to cover up a lot of things in regards to COVID-19. There was a major UK report that came out some time back pointing a lot of problems with who China handled this outbreak. Australia supported an international inquiry to the cause of COVID-19. Since that time China has been very upset with Australia and is making all these trade embargo's to try and hurt the Australian economy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
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  19. chad kincham

    chad kincham Well-Known Member

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    Laws of clean and unclean in the Old Covenant were ceremonial, such as a woman being unclean for 7 days after her period, or a man being unclean until evening after touching a dead animal, or certain animals being unclean.


    This is shown by the fact that before the Law of Moses was given, it was okay to eat anything that moves:


    Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.


    Paul wrote that nothing is unclean of itself, when he was writing about eating meat:


    Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it isunclean.


    The gentiles were considered unclean because they ate pork and other forbidden meat, which is one reason why Jesus said nothing that enters the body through the mouth can defile a man.


    Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.


    God also gave Peter the vision where He told Peter to eat unclean animals - and when he protested that he’d never eaten anything unclean, God replied that He had cleansed them, so stop calling them unclean.


    Peter eventually figured out after God had to tell him three times, that if the laws of clean and unclean animals were null and void, then the gentiles were no longer unclean due to their diet, and could be included as a covenant people.


    Act 10:11 and saw the heavens opened and something like a great sheet descending, being let down by its four corners upon the earth.

    Act 10:12 In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air.

    Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”

    Act 10:14 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.”

    Act 10:15 And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common.”

    Act 10:16 This happened three times, and the thing was taken up at once to heaven.


    After Peter finally understood why God had cleansed all animals, he said this:


    Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.


    Today there are no unclean animals in the new covenant, those ceremonial laws have ended.


    It’s okay to say some animals are less healthy to eat, but it’s not a sin to eat bacon or shrimp, etc.

    This scripture applies to us today:

    Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
     
  20. Bruce Leiter

    Bruce Leiter A sinner saved by God's astounding grace and love

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    Q1. No.
    Q2. I can't read his mind, but I don't think so (below).
    Q3. Isn't the question the other way around--an unclean meat become a clean meat today? Yes.

    This question shows clearly the contrast and comparison between the old and new covenant. I'm glad that you brought it up. One church that I attended for a while taught that we must follow the rules in Leviticus 11 exactly, though I now disagree. Let me explain.

    There is continuity between the old and new covenants. God gave the old covenant to Abraham and to all believers as his spiritual children (Romans 4; Galatians 3). And Jesus said in his Sermon on the Mount that the law will never disappear (Matthew 5:17-19).

    On the other hand, both Jesus and Paul taught that all foods are clean.

    So, how can we understand this apparent contradiction? Well, both are true; there is both continuity and discontinuity between the old and new covenants. The old covenant (the law) was given to Israel as their national law. When Jesus came, he changed it into the principles of the new covenant for the international church.

    Therefore, all of the principles or inner main ideas of the old covenant carry over to the church's new covenant, but the outer form of the old covenant has been done away when Jesus died on the cross (Colossians 2).

    What does this distinction have to do with the clean and unclean foods? The outer distinctions among all of them no longer are in force, but all believers need to overcome the uncleanness in our lives through Jesus' victory. That is the inner principle that continues, while the clean and unclean food distinction no longer is in force.

    See Romans 14 for Paul's guidelines about disputable matters, including food, in order to determine the principles for dealing with those matters upon which Christians disagree.
     
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