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God won't always forgive people who've sinned out of ignorance.

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Bouan Philippe, May 13, 2021.

  1. Bouan Philippe

    Bouan Philippe New Member

    1 Timothy 1:13 Although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

    2 Thessalonians 1
    7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

    God had forgiven Paul for the sin of murdering and persecuting Christians (because he was considered important from the dispensationist perspective), but that is not to say that He would also forgive others for their ignorance.

    By definition, the ignorant ones are the ones who do not know God (2 Thessalonians 1:8), but the vast majority of ignorant people will be punished for their sins borne of ignorance.

    That God had forgiven Paul for his ignorance doesn't imply that the same fate befalls others who are also ignorant.

    Please discuss.
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  2. 2BeholdHisGlory

    2BeholdHisGlory Still on vacation!

    United States
    Heres a few verses from the OT even concerning sinning through ignorance

    You would need a young bullock here

    Levititicus 4:13 And if the whole congregation of Israel sin through ignorance, and the thing be hid from the eyes of the assembly, and they have done somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which should not be done, and are guilty When the sin, which they have sinned against it, is known, then the congregation shall offer a young bullock for the sin, and bring him before the tabernacle of the congregation.

    Lev 4:27 And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;

    This one a kid of goats here

    Then here it says,

    Numbers 15:28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.

    Numbers 15:29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.

    And here among those who were into idolatry Paul said,

    Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent
  3. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

    Ahh, you are a dispensationalist in your Bible interpretation? Are you an Acts 2 or Mid acts dispensationalist?
  4. 2BeholdHisGlory

    2BeholdHisGlory Still on vacation!

    United States
    The conversion of Saul is shown here as Jesus tells us what would be happening to his own disciples (which Paul afterwards became)

    Acts 9:1-2 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

    As Jesus foretold

    John 16:3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

    Saul being an example of this

    Saul is persecuting Jesus (in a picture of Saul going after his disciples/ the church) believing he is doing God some service and as he journeys on a light from heaven shines

    His conversion

    Acts 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

    Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord?

    Again, as Jesus said,

    John 16:3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

    And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest

    Aand just as Jesus said,

    Mark 3:28 All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme (See Luke 12:10 also which pertains to against the Son)

    As Paul confessed to being

    1 Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy,
    because I did it ignorantly in unbelief

    1 Ti 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

    1 Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

    1 Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

    Showing for longsuffering and in Paul a patern which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting
  5. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

    United States
    God will forgive everyone of their ignorance when the get Saved.
    Ignorance is no excuse if they refuse to get Saved.

    Jesus said,
    He who believes in Him is not condemned;
    but he who does not believe is condemned already,

    because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."​
    John 3:18 NKJV​
  6. 2BeholdHisGlory

    2BeholdHisGlory Still on vacation!

    United States
    There is sinning in ignorance and unbelief and sinning wilfully after one has received the knowledge of the truth also

    Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

    Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

    Shows a fiery indignation towards such there and vengeance of God in that context also.
  7. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

    United States
    just a couple of facts about God.
    1. God is just, He does not hold people responsible for their ignorance.
    2. God is consistent, what He will do for Paul He will do for anyone. He does not forgive one sinner and not forgive another sinner as long as both repent.
  8. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

    We possess an emptiness within each of us; we know something is missing and yet our own pride, related to rebellion against God in favor of ourselves and the herd mentality or fear of what others think, coupled with our attraction to sin prevent us from looking outside of ourselves to a higher Truth, from seeking God IOW. We know that our world is wrong in many ways, that we’re wrong, but man prefers darkness, we prefer to remain ignorant rather than seek and embrace the light, the light that we already sense exists because we’re made in His image and, as Augustine put it, we can have no rest until we rest in Him.

    So the church has taught against acedia, aka “spiritual sloth”, that disposition that keeps us from getting up and seeking God, as sin. We’re obligated to ask, seek, and knock as a critical part of arriving at our purpose and destiny. So there’s a point at which we’re responsible for our ignorance. Where we have no control over it, God does not hold us responsible.
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
  9. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

    Czech Republic
    Refusing being saved is always from ignorance :) Nobody willfully chooses to die or to suffer.
  10. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    In Relationship
    Correct Paul was ignorant due to unbelief and no Holy Spirit. As Holy Spirit filled Christians we are no longer ignorant of the truth. Many Christians do not walk with His His Holy Spirit thus leading to deception and ignorant of that deception. Be blessed.
  11. RickReads

    RickReads Well-Known Member

    United States
    Then you believe God is a respecter of persons. Paul being forgiven due to his importance in God's plan.