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God wants the destruction of innocents?

Discussion in 'Christian Scriptures' started by My King and Lord, May 6, 2019.

  1. My King and Lord

    My King and Lord Member

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    Ok so I came across the verse of 1 Samuel 15:3 in which the Israelites are to destroy everything of the Amalekites. I did a bit of background and reading on this and the Amalekites often lied and attacked Israel. However the destruction of women, children, cattle, and everything? If God is supposed to be merciful and loves all of his creations equally, why would he demand the complete destruction of innocent women, children, babies, and animals. Babies and animals can't even do anything. If anyone can answer this that would be great. Thank you.
     
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  2. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    If we understand the reasons and consequences of the Fall, we see that Adam deliberately rebelled against God in his disobedience to a clear command. This means that He and all his descendants are viewed as total rebels, deserving of condemnation and hell. What Adam did was to bring sin into the world so much that every person after him, by representation, is totally depraved and will naturally oppose and rebel against God. Therefore, God, in His justice, has every right to condemn every human being to Hell.

    This includes every man woman and child. Even infant children are apostate, although infant children, if they die as infants, will, by the grace of God be saved.

    This means that God, if He decided, can wipe out every human being on earth and be seen as totally just and righteous. This may offend our natural emotions, but that is the truth as shown in Scripture.

    But God has shown His grace, that He has sent His Son to die on the cross for sinners, and those who accept Christ will be saved, but those who reject Him will be eternally lost.

    So, the destruction of the Amalekites was legal and righteous.
     
  3. Danielwright2311

    Danielwright2311 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We all die, so its not a punishment on the innocents.

    Its a consequence of there circumstances.
     
  4. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    I think part of the answer is in the book of Jonah.

    Jon 4:11

    “Should I not have compassion on Nineveh, the great city in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know the difference between their right and left hand, as well as many animals?”

    This was in the context of wholesale repentance.

    In the case of the Amalekites I can only assume that there was no repentance from Pagan practices, and the whole community was spiritually contaminated.

    We struggle to understand the concept of a Holy God who hates sin. We must see Him as a just judge with the prerogative to give and take away as He sees fit - including life.
     
  5. My King and Lord

    My King and Lord Member

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    But why would God destroy them and let us live? Just because he didn't send down His Son yet? I mean you had babies that were ordered to be destroyed, they didn't have much of a chance.
     
  6. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    One reason could be that they worshipped false gods.

    A quick ticket to the hot place.

    M-Bob
     
  7. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    God commanded the Israelites to wage war against the Amalekites. War in those days meant total destruction of a society. If the Egyptians had waged war on the Amalekites it would have been the same: war. If any other society of the time had waged war against any other society it would have been the same. So God did not create the rules of war, someone else did. God merely told the Israelites to wage war.
     
  8. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    You need to read the Bible about the depravity that resulted from the rebellion of Adam, and also what Paul wrote in Romans. From the time of Adam to the present day, every human being is a rebel against God and is condemned already. If God decides to wipe out people and remove them from the world, He has every right to do so. This is what modern Christians fail to realise. They want a softer, watered down God who is all love and no justice. But this is not the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible has every right to remove all who are rebelling against Him, choosing sin and depravity and refusing to acknowledge God at all, and no person would have any defence at all against God's righteous actions. It is foreign to our western minds where we think that every person should have at least an opportunity to believe in God. But Paul says all they have to do is look around at God's creation and that is full witness that God exists and could be believed in. Also, people who don't have any opportunity to hear the gospel, or anyone telling them about the Living God, are judged according to their conscience; but every sinner, ancient and modern have sinned against their own conscience. They know that they have and are doing evil. Therefore, they are totally guilty and deserving of condemnation.

    Modern Christianity concentrates on God's love, but ignores His justice. That is why we have so many "carnal" Christians in our churches who have never experienced conviction of their own sinfulness which would rightly condemn them to hell, and they would deserve to be sent there.
     
  9. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Why does God allow abortions? It is the fall of man that leads to death.
     
  10. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    It does deeper than that. It is God's wrath against totally depraved sinners. There are no innocents. Every single person who ever lived since Adam is guilty and deserving of hell. Those who are saved are saved only through the pure grace and mercy of God that He chose them to receive Salvation. He did not have to do that, and if Jesus hadn't died on the cross to pay the penalty for the depravity and evil in people, He would not have been able to save anyone, because His Divine Justice would require that all sinners spend eternity in hell. Saving anyone outside of the substitutionary work of Christ would be a violation of His justice, and every sinner would cry "favouritism", and every soul who received Christ would cry out "injustice!"
     
  11. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    It is because God allows people to have free choice about their actions. Every person has to give an account for what they do in life. Those who have abortions will have to stand up before God one day and explain why they did that - unless they have received Christ and been forgiven and cleansed from that sin.
     
  12. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    I agree some of the OT appears to be in conflict with Jesus' teachings and general good morality. If you actually get an acceptable answer to that I will be surprised :)

    P.S. there are commentaries here by experts, but I'm still not satisfied with their answers. I think some things God will have to answer for us himself.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  13. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    First of all, I don't believe that Scripture teaches that God loves all of his creations equally. People are worth more to him than animals. Cattle were sacrificed and eaten. Doing either to a child was a grave sin. So this reduces the problem to the Amelekite people.

    The men would have carried out the offenses primarily, but most if not all of the women and teenagers would have had the same biases and value system that justified the vile crimes that the Amelekites committed. So they are not innocent, and it reduces the problem to the Amelekite children and babies.

    And that is the hardest part of this. Now, what may have been part of the issue is that the children and babies would have been seen as property, possibly as a slave labor force or slaves to trade. This was to be an annihilation of the Amalekites' property as well as punishment of the Amelekite people. But this comes up short as an explanation, I think.

    Ultimately, we need to look at the basis by which we consider this wrong to begin with. At first glance, it appears that the human rights of these people were violated. But where do those rights come from?

    Human rights do not come from governments, or by social consensus. There have been too many human rights violations that occurred because of government mandate or social consensus throughout the ages to accept that as an answer. If the government wants you out of the way, they can't just have the police or an assassin kill you for their convenience. Nor can they railroad you on a false charge to have you arrested and punished for a crime you didn't commit. If your rights came from them, they could do that easily. And authoritarian regimes have done that, but it was still wrong, even if not everyone saw it as wrong. If we accept that, human rights must come from a moral authority higher than any government or social consensus.

    In Christianity and Judaism, they come from God. He is the King of Kings with the authority to judge the whole world, governments, individual people, everyone. He alone gives us our rights, no government can give them or take them away - all they can do is protect and respect them, or trample them and be judged by God for it. By the same token however, he alone can take rights away. If he takes a person's right to live away, they will probably die in short order. He is the giver and taker of life.

    Therefore, God took away the right to life of all of the Amalekites, because he had sole authority to do so. Because he had the sole authority to do so, that takes away the moral problem. However, we need to be very careful to not misuse the name of God to justify other such works that he has not ordained. The Amalekites, along with the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites were special cases. I know of no other people group in Scripture who were to be wiped out, everyone else was under a different set of rules, and this level of destruction was not ordained for them. Therefore, if anyone invokes the name of God to wipe out a different people group, that person is lying, and blaspheming.
     
  14. Danielwright2311

    Danielwright2311 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No, I beg to differ, Innocent wemon and children do not deserve to die for someone else's sins.

    Babies are 100 percent=exempt from sin. And every baby goes strait to heaven, so there are no sins to forgive with them.

    Like I said, its just a Its a consequence of there circumstances.

    The original post was about innocents, not sinners
     
  15. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The Scripture teaches that all are sinners from birth because of Adam's sin. Women and children die for their own sins. Paul is quite clear about that in his teaching in Romans. This is even before they have committed any sinful acts, because the sin principle is in them as representative of Adam's rebellion against God.
     
  16. Danielwright2311

    Danielwright2311 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No it does not, there is no scripture that says babies are sinners, the very opposite, this is the very reason Jesus said if we want to go to heaven to convert out self's as little children who are perfect.

    There is not one scripture that says this, not one.
     
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  17. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    How do you harmonize that idea with Jesus' teachings in Matthew 18:3 :

    "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
     
  18. MDC

    MDC Well-Known Member

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    Was God unjust to have the Israelites wipe out all the Amalekites including women and children?
     
  19. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    I can answer that with a question: Jesus taught as we've all read John 8:7. So then it confuses me as to when God would select children to do His work. Deuteronomy 32:39
     
  20. Danielwright2311

    Danielwright2311 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Its not unjust for God to do anything, He is God, He knows best.

    I'm not God to answer this but I will say this.

    Some times, in some situations, for some, death is better then growing up and hating God for his destruction on your own people.

    Thats just one example, not my answer, but a example.

    In my eyes, he did them a favor bringing them to heaven while still innocent.
     
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