GOD recommends HATE : (Luke 14:26)

Is our family, our "own" flesh, the only thing we should hate?

  • It is enough only to hate the flesh.

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Douglas Hendrickson

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God (Jesus the Christ) not only recommends hate, he requires it.

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."
Luke 14:26

Thus WE ARE COMMANDED to hate our "own" flesh, what we might "naturally" love and affirm.
 

Emmy

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Dear DouglasHendrickson. God is Love, and where there is Love-hate does not exist. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells us: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." (neighbour is all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends) In Luke 10: 25-28: Jesus is asked: " Master, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus answer is: " What is written in the Law? How reads thou? " Matthew 22: 35-40:" Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind and love thy neighbour as thyself. Jesus answered," you say right, DO THIS AND YOU SHALL LIVE."
That is straightforward and easy to follow, where there is Love, Satan and all his followers run away from.
I say this with love, Douglas. Jesus wants our love wholeheartedly. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
 
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Douglas Hendrickson

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Dear DouglasHendrickson. God is Love, and where there is Love-hate does not exist. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells us: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." (neighbour is all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends) In Luke 10: 25-28: Jesus is asked: " Master, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus answer is: " What is written in the Law? How reads thou? " Matthew 22: 35-40:" Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind and love thy neighbour as thyself. Jesus answered," you say right, DO THIS AND YOU SHALL LIVE."
That is straightforward and easy to follow, where there is Love, Satan and all his followers run away from.
I say this with love, Douglas. Jesus wants our love wholeheartedly. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
Thanks for the greeting Emmy,
But my question is more along the lines of "Why does God (Jesus) command us to hate?"
Are you denying that what I quote from Luke is telling us to hate?

Certainly God and we can both love and hate, and BOTH are appropriate in some cases, when they are.

We should hate evil. Do you agree with that, or not?

One would think that "neighbors" are those one is most in contact with, the ones Jesus particularly commends us to hate?

HIS example of the neighbor is the man found in the ditch, who the Good Samaritan took to a hotel and had his wounds treated. (Note the Good Samaritan did not bring the guy to his own home, like some of those endorsing migrants thees days claim we should do re such far-flung "neighbors.")
 
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ViaCrucis

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This thread is a pretty good example of the way certain people attempt to misuse religion to justify their hatred and particular prejudices.

I recommend the OP have a long hard pray and have some repentance.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Soyeong

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God (Jesus the Christ) not only recommends hate, he requires it.

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."
Luke 14:26

Thus WE ARE COMMANDED to hate our "own" flesh, what we might "naturally" love and affirm.

The Bible is not saying that we should feel animosity towards our family and ourselves, but that everyone needs to take second place to following Messiah.
 
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Douglas Hendrickson

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This thread is a pretty good example of the way certain people attempt to misuse religion to justify their hatred and particular prejudices.

I recommend the OP have a long hard pray and have some repentance.

-CryptoLutheran
Nice personal attack. I guess it is you who should repent - for your falsity!
No one here is saying anyone should hate anyone, far as I can see. Except for Jesus Christ, who is directly quoted.

I do say we should hate evil - I suppose you love the evil of your personal attack?
 
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ViaCrucis

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Nice personal attack. I guess it is you who should repent - for your falsity!
No one here is saying anyone should hate anyone, far as I can see. Except for Jesus Christ, who is directly quoted.

I do say we should hate evil - I suppose you love the evil of your personal attack?

Personal attack? Hardly.

I believe you wrote the following:

HIS example of the neighbor is the man found in the ditch, who the Good Samaritan took to a hotel and had his wounds treated. (Note the Good Samaritan did not bring the guy to his own home, like some of those endorsing migrants thees days claim we should do re such far-flung "neighbors.")

It seemed pretty obvious to me that you were interested in justifying hatred for others, and in finding a justification for not loving everyone as the Lord commands--due to personal issues you have with immigrants, most likely in reference to the Syrian refugees.

My response was based on your words and ideas as you presented them in the OP.

We could put this to rest easily: Should you, as a Christian, love the refugees--all of them--and by Christ's command to love and care for the least of these if you are able, should you provide for them? Yes or no?

Or, more simply: Should you, as a Christian, love everyone. Everyone, without exception, even as Christ has loved you.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Douglas Hendrickson

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Personal attack? Hardly.

I believe you wrote the following:



It seemed pretty obvious to me that you were interested in justifying hatred for others, and in finding a justification for not loving everyone as the Lord commands--due to personal issues you have with immigrants, most likely in reference to the Syrian refugees.

My response was based on your words and ideas as you presented them in the OP.

We could put this to rest easily: Should you, as a Christian, love the refugees--all of them--and by Christ's command to love and care for the least of these if you are able, should you provide for them? Yes or no?

Or, more simply: Should you, as a Christian, love everyone. Everyone, without exception, even as Christ has loved you.

-CryptoLutheran
Not only do you you bear false witness against me - you distort what I actually say into meaning what you want it to mean.
 
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ViaCrucis

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If I've misunderstood you, then I certainly apologize.

But it seemed to me that you were saying that God requires that we hate. And then suggested that there are some people who do not fall under the category of "neighbor" that we are called to love. And the example of that were migrants.

So perhaps you could help clarify my misunderstanding.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Douglas Hendrickson

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If I've misunderstood you, then I certainly apologize.

But it seemed to me that you were saying that God requires that we hate. And then suggested that there are some people who do not fall under the category of "neighbor" that we are called to love. And the example of that were migrants.

So perhaps you could help clarify my misunderstanding.

-CryptoLutheran
I doubt that neighbor is correctly understood to be all people. I think if Jesus had meant, "love everybody," he would have said that (and the Jewish Bible would say that), rather than what is recorded.
Jesus gave the example of the neighbor being the Good Samaritan when he rescued the stranger by the road who had been beaten by robbers. It suggests an element of "neighbor" is the exchange of aid, and also the element that one personally comes upon another.

I don't know that we want to get into a discussion of "love," like in 'called to love"? But my pointing to how Jesus clarified the concept "neighbor" was not to suggest any hatred of immigrants - in fact probably the opposite since it was in the context of pointing out that neighbors are usually considered to be those nearest, and I would think include of ones family which it seems Jesus is telling us to hate.

I certainly didn't mean to suggest hatred of anyone beyond those who Jesus seems to have admonished us to "hate"; I was questioning how to make sense of that admonition. SOYEONG perhaps comes close to a correct interpretation when he/she says: "The Bible is not saying that we should feel animosity towards our family and ourselves, but that everyone needs to take second place to following Messiah."
One thing I am thinking is those in one's family can easily come first (and insist they came first!), and a diligent Christian might appropriately develop an animosity toward them. (And how much animosity would be justified?)
 
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tdidymas

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Dear DouglasHendrickson. God is Love, and where there is Love-hate does not exist. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells us: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." (neighbour is all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends) In Luke 10: 25-28: Jesus is asked: " Master, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus answer is: " What is written in the Law? How reads thou? " Matthew 22: 35-40:" Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind and love thy neighbour as thyself. Jesus answered," you say right, DO THIS AND YOU SHALL LIVE."
That is straightforward and easy to follow, where there is Love, Satan and all his followers run away from.
I say this with love, Douglas. Jesus wants our love wholeheartedly. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
If you love God, then you will HATE evil! (Ps. 97:10)
TD:)
 
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tdidymas

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I doubt that neighbor is correctly understood to be all people. I think if Jesus had meant, "love everybody," he would have said that (and the Jewish Bible would say that), rather than what is recorded.
Jesus gave the example of the neighbor being the Good Samaritan when he rescued the stranger by the road who had been beaten by robbers. It suggests an element of "neighbor" is the exchange of aid, and also the element that one personally comes upon another.

I don't know that we want to get into a discussion of "love," like in 'called to love"? But my pointing to how Jesus clarified the concept "neighbor" was not to suggest any hatred of immigrants - in fact probably the opposite since it was in the context of pointing out that neighbors are usually considered to be those nearest, and I would think include of ones family which it seems Jesus is telling us to hate.

I certainly didn't mean to suggest hatred of anyone beyond those who Jesus seems to have admonished us to "hate"; I was questioning how to make sense of that admonition. SOYEONG perhaps comes close to a correct interpretation when he/she says: "The Bible is not saying that we should feel animosity towards our family and ourselves, but that everyone needs to take second place to following Messiah."
One thing I am thinking is those in one's family can easily come first (and insist they came first!), and a diligent Christian might appropriately develop an animosity toward them. (And how much animosity would be justified?)
I agree with Soyeong. Jesus said elsewhere "hate... in comparison to your love for me." It means that to them, your love for Christ and the priority for Him that you have over them, that it might look like hate to them. In the 1st Century Jewish culture (and in some Jewish families today), if you become a follower of Christ, then you are disowned by the family, since it appears to them that you hated them (because you loved Christ). If becoming a follower of Christ means that you are cast out of your family and ostracized, then you are to love Christ as much as that. "...even your own life..." means that you are to regard Christ as your master, and sacrifice many of your own desires to follow His will.
TD:)
 
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ViaCrucis

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I doubt that neighbor is correctly understood to be all people. I think if Jesus had meant, "love everybody," he would have said that (and the Jewish Bible would say that), rather than what is recorded.

1) The Greek word for neighbor here is πλησίον, "one who is near" that is, near to or within in proximity; effectively it's anyone who isn't you.

2) "Who is my neighbor?" is precisely the question asked which results in Jesus responding with the parable of the good Samaritan; Jesus deliberately chose a disliked other. Jesus takes the disliked other and, in contrast to those who should have been good, holy, righteous (etc)--namely the Levite and the priest--it is the Samaritan who shows compassion and kindness. The message is clear, our neighbor is not merely our fellow countrymen, our kinsmen, or our own; our neighbor is also those people whom we are taught in our society to dislike and to regard as aliens, others, and unwanted. Who is my neighbor? Everyone is my neighbor.

So that's precisely what, here, we have in Scripture. Love everyone. And if this isn't sufficient, the Lord in His Sermon teaches, "You have heard it said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy', but I say to you love your enemy," The commandment is clear, everyone, even those who hate us, mistreat us, curse us, and seek to kill us are to be loved by us. There is no exception to this, we are to love everybody.

Jesus gave the example of the neighbor being the Good Samaritan when he rescued the stranger by the road who had been beaten by robbers. It suggests an element of "neighbor" is the exchange of aid, and also the element that one personally comes upon another.

The whole point of choosing the Samaritan was to choose a despised person, someone who in that culture would have been regarded as other and bad, and who in kind was taught to dislike and reject the Jews. It was a two-way animosity between Jews and Samaritans, and so in choosing the Samaritan here Jesus asserts, without question, that our neighbor isn't just those people we like, are similar to, or get along with. It's also the people who we have been conditioned to distrust, to dislike, or even hate.

I don't know that we want to get into a discussion of "love," like in 'called to love"? But my pointing to how Jesus clarified the concept "neighbor" was not to suggest any hatred of immigrants - in fact probably the opposite since it was in the context of pointing out that neighbors are usually considered to be those nearest, and I would think include of ones family which it seems Jesus is telling us to hate.

I certainly didn't mean to suggest hatred of anyone beyond those who Jesus seems to have admonished us to "hate"; I was questioning how to make sense of that admonition. SOYEONG perhaps comes close to a correct interpretation when he/she says: "The Bible is not saying that we should feel animosity towards our family and ourselves, but that everyone needs to take second place to following Messiah."
One thing I am thinking is those in one's family can easily come first (and insist they came first!), and a diligent Christian might appropriately develop an animosity toward them. (And how much animosity would be justified?)

But we aren't called to have animosity. The issue is entirely in the context that following Jesus takes precedence over familial loyalty. Jesus says something similar when He says that He came not to bring peace but a sword, and would divide fathers and sons, mothers and daughters, etc. It's simply the reality that, in the early Church, converts to Christianity were either Jews or Pagans, and choosing a new religion, following Jesus, was going to disrupt familial bonds if the family opposes one's conversion to Christianity. Jesus does not call us to hate people, He does not call us to have animosity toward people, but He does call us to an allegiance to Him that has priority over every other allegiance--to family, to home, to country. To say that He is Lord is to renounce all other lords or would-be lords. To say He is King is to renounce all other kings or would-be kings.

But the one who calls Him Lord and Him King does not actively hate his friends and family, but recognizes that the call of Christ is the call to pick up one's cross and follow Him, to endure every hardship and suffering which that will or might entail. Christ's call is nothing less than the call to die.

-CryptoLutheran

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Douglas Hendrickson

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1) The Greek word for neighbor here is πλησίον, "one who is near" that is, near to or within in proximity; effectively it's anyone who isn't you.

2) "Who is my neighbor?" is precisely the question asked which results in Jesus responding with the parable of the good Samaritan; Jesus deliberately chose a disliked other. Jesus takes the disliked other and, in contrast to those who should have been good, holy, righteous (etc)--namely the Levite and the priest--it is the Samaritan who shows compassion and kindness. The message is clear, our neighbor is not merely our fellow countrymen, our kinsmen, or our own; our neighbor is also those people whom we are taught in our society to dislike and to regard as aliens, others, and unwanted. Who is my neighbor? Everyone is my neighbor.

So that's precisely what, here, we have in Scripture. Love everyone. And if this isn't sufficient, the Lord in His Sermon teaches, "You have heard it said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy', but I say to you love your enemy," The commandment is clear, everyone, even those who hate us, mistreat us, curse us, and seek to kill us are to be loved by us. There is no exception to this, we are to love everybody.



The whole point of choosing the Samaritan was to choose a despised person, someone who in that culture would have been regarded as other and bad, and who in kind was taught to dislike and reject the Jews. It was a two-way animosity between Jews and Samaritans, and so in choosing the Samaritan here Jesus asserts, without question, that our neighbor isn't just those people we like, are similar to, or get along with. It's also the people who we have been conditioned to distrust, to dislike, or even hate.



But we aren't called to have animosity. The issue is entirely in the context that following Jesus takes precedence over familial loyalty. Jesus says something similar when He says that He came not to bring peace but a sword, and would divide fathers and sons, mothers and daughters, etc. It's simply the reality that, in the early Church, converts to Christianity were either Jews or Pagans, and choosing a new religion, following Jesus, was going to disrupt familial bonds if the family opposes one's conversion to Christianity. Jesus does not call us to hate people, He does not call us to have animosity toward people, but He does call us to an allegiance to Him that has priority over every other allegiance--to family, to home, to country. To say that He is Lord is to renounce all other lords or would-be lords. To say He is King is to renounce all other kings or would-be kings.

But the one who calls Him Lord and Him King does not actively hate his friends and family, but recognizes that the call of Christ is the call to pick up one's cross and follow Him, to endure every hardship and suffering which that will or might entail. Christ's call is nothing less than the call to die.

-CryptoLutheran

-CryptoLutheran
Good of you to point out the neighbor is "one who is near," or in proximity. But it's nonsense in the same point (1) to say that means "anyone who isn't you." It obviously EXCLUDES anyone who is far away, who is not at all in (close) proximity. Which is most people in the world, of course. So "what, here, we have in Scripture" is pretty much the opposite of what you claim it is - not everyone and mostly excluding everyone.

The "love your enemies" thrown into this context is interesting in that it is pointed out the "neighbor" chosen by Christ for his example is the despised one, the one among actual neighbors who there may well be a lot of enmity toward but he/she whom we should treat kindly. "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" (Mt. 5:44) It's going to be a neighbor (truthfully defined) who does these things to you, not someone in a foreign land. And then THE LOVE indicated is to bless and pray for and "do good," whatever kind of do-gooder you are pre-disposed to be, I suppose.

Just like in Scripture we are admonished not to oppress the poor, and that is NOT a command to throw all our substance to the poor (because that won't solve the problem - the poor you will always have with you, as Jesus pointed out), so too "doing good" may be very far from "doing the utmost possible good you could ever do."
 
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Emmy

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Dear Douglas Hendrickson. That word hate is definitely not used by Jesus, our Saviour is only pointing out that He wants our love truly and absolutely, always before anybody, or anything else. If we choose Jesus, He wants our ALL.
It is God`s Command to love our parents, but Jesus our Saviour comes first, He came and died that we might LIVE.
Without Jesus we would not be God`s son and daughters.
I don`t know where the word hate comes from, but it was certainly not from God or Jesus. In Matthew22: 35-40:Jesus tells us to Love God and love our neighbour. In Luke 10: 25-28: Jesus tells a young man: " Read what Matthew 22: 35-40: tells us: DO THIS AND YOU SHALL LIVE. The word hate is a very wrong translation.
I say this with love, Douglas. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
 
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Hieronymus

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But are we able to love our fellow humans like the good Samaritan?
Are we able to love God like Jesus did?
Can we always forgive like we are forgiven?
I don't think so, i'm not.
But the Law of Christ is Agape, for God and for the fellow human.
We have to try though, of course.
But i think we need God to help us make it work.
We stumble and fall to teach us, to make us repent.
A process that will take the rest of our lives in the flesh.
 
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Douglas Hendrickson

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Dear Douglas Hendrickson. That word hate is definitely not used by Jesus, our Saviour is only pointing out that He wants our love truly and absolutely, always before anybody, or anything else. If we choose Jesus, He wants our ALL.
It is God`s Command to love our parents, but Jesus our Saviour comes first, He came and died that we might LIVE.
Without Jesus we would not be God`s son and daughters.
I don`t know where the word hate comes from, but it was certainly not from God or Jesus. In Matthew22: 35-40:Jesus tells us to Love God and love our neighbour. In Luke 10: 25-28: Jesus tells a young man: " Read what Matthew 22: 35-40: tells us: DO THIS AND YOU SHALL LIVE. The word hate is a very wrong translation.
I say this with love, Douglas. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
Hi Emmy,
To answer your question, the word "hate" comes from THE BIBLE - if you look back at post #11, TD pointed out: If you love God, then you will HATE evil! (Ps. 97:10) TD:)

Do you not think we should hate evil? I would say that is so by definition - "hate" is also found in the dictionary. And what it means is that any right thinking person knows we should hate evil - that is what "evil" means, what should be first and foremost hated. Contemporary culture has devised things like "hate laws," to try to ensure that nobody speaks against evils it likes to perpetrate. Thus hate has become a "bad word" - nobody is to hate anything any more. And many have bought into that false idea.

I think a couple of posters have pretty well nailed why JESUS SAID we should hate our own family members - and it is that we should put nothing before God, following and serving Jesus should always and in every way come first. (Our families and even our very body are the flesh, our "own flesh," after all. Do you think we should love and serve THE FLESH Emmy?)
 
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Emmy

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Dear Douglas Hendrickson. You are right in what you say, and I do not think that we should love and serve THE FLESH. I do apologise to give the wrong meaning, I simply meant that I dislike the word HATE, to me it seems so very
hateful, no feeling at all. I meant no unkindness, Douglas. Sorry, sorry dear Christian Friend.
Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
 
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"Hating our own flesh" is a very very odd term in this text. It appears to not match the mood, spirit and prose of other gospel writings. Just sayin...seems suspicious to me.
On the other hand, our flesh is the temple of the Holy Spirit so why would we hate that? Also, if we should hate our flesh/self/life, then wouldn't it be a GOOD THING to poison and abuse ourselves?

well????
 
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