LDS God pre-existed the Universe

[PeaceJoyLove]

The opening post states "Mormonism teaches God is a resurrected man from another planet who attained Godhood."

This is a quote from Brigham Young and what he taught. So Jane, You said this is falsehood.

So are all your prophets teachings and writings falsehoods? Does that help clarify how confusion has set in???

 

[Jane_Doe]

(Taking a deep breath here, trying to be understanding and have a bit more patience)

We non-LDS see things on LDS site and writings that are noted as teachings. That means something, obviously, different to us than to you. You take the stand that these 'teachings' are not doctrines and you can take them or leave them.

I acknowledge this common misunderstanding, hence my efforts to try to explain and alleviate the confusion. I will try again here, in response to your post (I can see that you are putting in effort here, and thank you for that):

LDS do believe in prophets: olden times and today (because God doesn't change). There were/are *men* of God. When operating specifically as a Prophetic mouth piece of God, they speak His words. All other times they speak as an imperfect men (after all, only Christ was perfect). It is NOT believed that everything that comes out of a man's mouth is of God or infallible. I will discuss a few examples here:

Example 1: The Prophet, operating as the Prophet, speaks scriptural Words of the Lord and it is declared to be thus. It is not just his say-so that do the declaring. Rather, it is ratified unanimously by the prophet, his counselors, and the Quorum of the Twelve to specifically be the words of the Lord (this is done after much prayer and listening to the Spirit). It is then presented to the greater Church body for their sustaining vote and acknowledgement before it is bound with rest of scripture. This is doctrine. Each individual then must do their own prayer and listening to the Spirit to confirm the Truthfulness of these words. It is never just "listen to this cause I a man said so!".

Example 2: some church leader (doesn't matter who) gets up some random podium and says something. Obviously not scripture and not official LDS doctrine. It is that individual doing their best to explain things as they best as understand them. They are not doctrine and frankly could be true or flawed. LDS persons are not bound by these non-scriptural words of men, though of course they always can consult the Spirit as to whether or not these things are true.


D&C 22 applies to things in example 1 (the words of the Lord), but not example 2 (words of man).

Over the course of this dialogue you've quoted a number of sources that example 2 types:
---"Encyclopedia of Mormonism" - not doctrine. Not even published by the prophet and quorum of the 12 apostles. Rather, it's written by imperfect men trying to be helpful. Not used in actual LDS church.
---"Mormon Doctrine" - despite the horrible misnomer title, this book is not doctrine. It was written by a middle-management church person without even the Quorum of the 12's knowledge (let alone approval). It was full of errors and misstatements. Also not used in actual LDS church.
--- The King Follet Discourse - was giving after the death of a LDS member (named King Follet) as part of his memorium. This talk was never ratified by the Quorum of the 12, First Presidency, or general church body. It is not scripture, nor doctrine, nor used in actual LDS church.


Now in regards to the OP: thesunisout said "Mormonism teaches God is a resurrected man from another planet who attained Godhood." This statement by thesunisout is false for two big reasons. One: The claims s/he is making are not part of LDS doctrine (they originate with the non-doctrinal King Follet discourse). 2: This is not taught in church at all. So thesunisout's statement was false. I have made no claim as to whether or not the King Follet Discourse is true.

 

[HeLeadethMe]

Be sober and alert, for the devil prowls like a roaring lion seeking who he may devour. How lost we are without the word of God revealed, and prone to wandering into all sorts.......test everything, test the spirit we think we are hearing from God because it seemeth right to us........test it by the word of God, that one and only word that Jesus was the Word made flesh, yes that one. The word that God exalts even above His own name.........that word that we are very seriously warned to neither add to nor take away from. That word that points us to no other writings but its own. That word that is the only plumbline against which all others are to be measured. Test everything, test the spirits....its a matter of life and death.

 

[Rescued One]

I was taught from the Holy Ghost that God the Father created the earth and is the Throne of him and that Jesus the Christ is the God of the Living creature, and that is his throne. And so that's what I believe

The Holy Ghost would never tell anyone that there is more than one God. Which group or church teaches what you've shared?

 

[withwonderingawe]

I'm not saying every word that comes out of his mouth, but when he is teaching about God. This is what Joseph Smith said in his sermon:

"I will prove that the world is wrong, by showing what God is. I am going to inquire after God; for I want you all to know Him, and to be familiar with Him; and if I am bringing you to a knowledge of Him, all persecutions against me ought to cease. You will then know that I am His servant; for I speak as one having authority."

He was speaking with authority. Here is another quote from the same sermon:

These ideas are incomprehensible to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible.

He said it the first principle of the gospel to understand this truth.

According to Joseph Smith himself, this is inspired teaching from God.

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17

 

[withwonderingawe]

Do Mormons believe in the virgin birth of Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit? Or do they believe it was a natural, physical conception by an exalted, resurrected god-man, Elohim. (Mormon Doctrine, p. 547) Do Mormons believe Jesus had to be married as it is one of the requirements to achieving Godhood? Or, how about the three gods taught about in Mormon Temple, Elohim, Jehovah, and Michael/Adam with no Holy Ghost? That Adam is the Father God (being the father of Jesus Christ)? D & C 27:11 even calls Adam the 'ancient of days'.

These things are all contrary to The Holy Bible. (John 4:22,24)

1, Do Mormons believe in the virgin birth of Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit?

“Modernistic teachings denying the virgin birth are utterly and completely apostate and false.” McConkie

Mormons believe in the virgin birth but since we separate the three members of the Godhead we do not believe he is the Son of the Holy Ghost but the Son of God the Father.

We have no official declaration as to how that was done except it was a virgin birth. Some like myself feel the Father cloned himself because Heb 1 says he is 'the expressed image' of the Father. He gave some of his cells or whatever he is made of and had the Holy Spirit place that inside of the womb of Mary, her cells then added to his resulted in a baby which was mortal yet God.

But that is just me and something I’ve pondered upon, other Mormons will probably roll their eyes and just shake their heads at me.

You can go here to see a collation of different quotes on the subject. www.fairmormon.org/answers/Jesus_Christ/Conception

2, Do Mormons believe Jesus had to be married as it is one of the requirements to achieving Godhood?

Jesus is the God Yahweh of the Old Testament and was anointed God long before he came to this earth. He was God while he was here and there is no scriptural indication that he was married. We do believe that at some point He will have a someone sealed to him as he begins the creation of his own spirit children.

3, Or, how about the three gods taught about in Mormon Temple, Elohim, Jehovah, and Michael/Adam with no Holy Ghost?

Bible says Ye are Gods and children of the Most High.ps 82 and Luke called Adam a “son of God” Luke 3.

Where you got the idea of no Holy Ghost I’m not sure???

We believe in priesthood and priesthood acts in quorums of authority. The Quorum which created the physical earth was made up of the supreme Elohim, Yahweh and Michael who became Adam. Elohim commanded and then Yahweh and Michael carried out those commands.

In chapter 2 of Gen as the Lord God begins his part of creation the first thing he does is create Adam’s body and placing Michael’s spirit, ‘the breath of life’ within it. Then he plants the Garden;

“And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it”

This was Adam’s part of the creating process, each member of the Quorum acting within his stewardship. But once the fall occurred then Adam would no longer be part of that Quorum.

We really don’t know a lot about the Holy Ghost or when He became part of the Godhead. He, Yahweh and Elohim may have been a separate Quorum presiding at the same time as the creative Quorum operated.

4, That Adam is the Father God (being the father of Jesus Christ)?
No. Brigham Young had a strange theory which is called the Adam God theory but it was rejected by enough of the Apostles at the time it never became doctrine and then later completely disavowed. BY was a good man and led the church to Utah under the direction of the Lord but he said a lot of thing we scratch our heads about.

5, D & C 27:11 even calls Adam the 'ancient of days'.

Yes we believe Daniel 7 is about the very beginning of the millennial reign, when the thrones are set up in Rev 20.

Adam is the head of the human family and holds authority in that sense. Each of the prophets and particularly those who are heads of dispensations hold keys of authority. Adam will come and sit, the books will be open “and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; (not the wicked but the saints) and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.“ meaning each prophet will give an accountings of his own stewardship handing his key back to Adam. Then Daniel says “ I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man, (meaning he saw Jesus) came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days/Adam, and they brought him near before him.

And “And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.”

All the keys of authority will be placed in the hand of Jesus and he will reign for a thousand years.

 

[Rescued One]

There is only ONE GOD! Anyone who denies Him is teaching false doctrine. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost relate to each other but are not exalted men. Gk.ὁμοούσιος
Their shared essence is not ours.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Now in regards to the OP: thesunisout said "Mormonism teaches God is a resurrected man from another planet who attained Godhood." This statement by thesunisout is false for two big reasons. One: The claims s/he is making are not part of LDS doctrine (they originate with the non-doctrinal King Follet discourse). 2: This is not taught in church at all. So thesunisout's statement was false. I have made no claim as to whether or not the King Follet Discourse is true.

The King Follett discourse is quoted in the Priesthood and Relief Society manual, entitled Teachings of Joseph Smith. That is why I feel I can use it doctrinally, with some provisos and clarifications. The problem with ""Mormonism teaches God is a resurrected man from another planet who attained Godhood." is that it does not accurately portray what we believe and it is used to sensationalize and demean.

 

[HeLeadethMe]

We'll never be too old for this song, one of my favourites, written for children originally I think, but good for all of God's children at any age ........please enJOY:

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

1, Do Mormons believe in the virgin birth of Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit?

“Modernistic teachings denying the virgin birth are utterly and completely apostate and false.” McConkie

Mormons believe in the virgin birth but since we separate the three members of the Godhead we do not believe he is the Son of the Holy Ghost but the Son of God the Father.

We have no official declaration as to how that was done except it was a virgin birth. Some like myself feel the Father cloned himself because Heb 1 says he is 'the expressed image' of the Father. He gave some of his cells or whatever he is made of and had the Holy Spirit place that inside of the womb of Mary, her cells then added to his resulted in a baby which was mortal yet God.

But that is just me and something I’ve pondered upon, other Mormons will probably roll their eyes and just shake their heads at me.

You can go here to see a collation of different quotes on the subject. www.fairmormon.org/answers/Jesus_Christ/Conception

2, Do Mormons believe Jesus had to be married as it is one of the requirements to achieving Godhood?

Jesus is the God Yahweh of the Old Testament and was anointed God long before he came to this earth. He was God while he was here and there is no scriptural indication that he was married. We do believe that at some point He will have a someone sealed to him as he begins the creation of his own spirit children.

3, Or, how about the three gods taught about in Mormon Temple, Elohim, Jehovah, and Michael/Adam with no Holy Ghost?

Bible says Ye are Gods and children of the Most High.ps 82 and Luke called Adam a “son of God” Luke 3.

Where you got the idea of no Holy Ghost I’m not sure???

We believe in priesthood and priesthood acts in quorums of authority. The Quorum which created the physical earth was made up of the supreme Elohim, Yahweh and Michael who became Adam. Elohim commanded and then Yahweh and Michael carried out those commands.

In chapter 2 of Gen as the Lord God begins his part of creation the first thing he does is create Adam’s body and placing Michael’s spirit, ‘the breath of life’ within it. Then he plants the Garden;

“And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it”

This was Adam’s part of the creating process, each member of the Quorum acting within his stewardship. But once the fall occurred then Adam would no longer be part of that Quorum.

We really don’t know a lot about the Holy Ghost or when He became part of the Godhead. He, Yahweh and Elohim may have been a separate Quorum presiding at the same time as the creative Quorum operated.

4, That Adam is the Father God (being the father of Jesus Christ)?
No. Brigham Young had a strange theory which is called the Adam God theory but it was rejected by enough of the Apostles at the time it never became doctrine and then later completely disavowed. BY was a good man and led the church to Utah under the direction of the Lord but he said a lot of thing we scratch our heads about.

5, D & C 27:11 even calls Adam the 'ancient of days'.

Yes we believe Daniel 7 is about the very beginning of the millennial reign, when the thrones are set up in Rev 20.

Adam is the head of the human family and holds authority in that sense. Each of the prophets and particularly those who are heads of dispensations hold keys of authority. Adam will come and sit, the books will be open “and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; (not the wicked but the saints) and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.“ meaning each prophet will give an accountings of his own stewardship handing his key back to Adam. Then Daniel says “ I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man, (meaning he saw Jesus) came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days/Adam, and they brought him near before him.

And “And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.”

All the keys of authority will be placed in the hand of Jesus and he will reign for a thousand years.

Thank you for being more candid than previous discourses on this thread. Many of the other wishy washy answers had inconsistencies and caused great confusion when addressing quotes from LDS prophets and teachings. How things work within that spectrum is a little clearer now, though my beliefs still differ.

RE: Holy Spirit and Temple - Something I read regrading temple ceremony (in several places, including ex-mormons) "presented in the temple - where there is absolutely no mention of the Holy Ghost whatsoever. What is taught there is that God sends down messengers from heaven to give men instruction - and they can recognize who the true messengers from God are based on tokens and signs. (Handshakes and passwords)."

The New Testament that we can enter into through Jesus Christ requires no physical temple or ordinances/rituals (as the Old Testament/covenant passes away) as we follow and obey Jesus and HIS sayings. Acts 7:48
Acts 17:24

1 Corinthians 6:19

1 Corinthians 3:16

Ephesians 2:19-22

1 Peter 2:5


The Word of God come in the flesh, Jesus Christ the firstborn. The second Adam, a new creation by the Spirit. When we truly receive the seed of His Word, by the power of the Holy Spirit through faith, we become sons/daughters of God The Father. We are transformed from the inside, and HE writes the Law upon our hearts, giving us a new nature. HE gives us the power by HIS spirit indwelling to become all HE promises in holiness and righteousness. Jesus and the Apostles taught this Gospel of peace and reconciliation between God and man that the first Adam brought upon us.

The foundation (of the Temple not made with hands) must be first laid and the house built upon THAT foundation as per HIS Gospel that comes with power.

Hebrews 6:1-3

Hebrews 5:11-12

1 Corinthians 3:11

2 Thessalonians 3:6

The scriptures that Jesus and the Apostles used promised to be enough! Jesus came to fulfill all of the Law of the Old Testament. The same spirit that raised Jesus Christ from the grave promises to come live within us in power, giving us the grace to be all we are called to be IN HIM...and HIM in us.
2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

(Taking a deep breath here, trying to be understanding and have a bit more patience)


Now in regards to the OP: thesunisout said "Mormonism teaches God is a resurrected man from another planet who attained Godhood." This statement by thesunisout is false for two big reasons. One: The claims s/he is making are not part of LDS doctrine (they originate with the non-doctrinal King Follet discourse). 2: This is not taught in church at all. So thesunisout's statement was false. I have made no claim as to whether or not the King Follet Discourse is true.

(in above quote, the bold for emphasis, by me)

The OP composed by thesunisout used a quote that was not his own words, but those from a LDS prophet. He asked for clarification on that teaching (by a LDS prophet). In your words, "This statement by thesunisout is false..." making it sound like those words were something thesunisout pulled out of his own hat and composed of his own volition. With your statement to the OP, further confusion arose because we (for non-LDS) do not understand the convoluted writings and how LDS are trained to interpret the various teachings as to what be doctrine and what be speculation...though ALL be teachings.

The way you presented your first answer to thesunisout's OP as outright falsehood seemed to undermine what the D & C says about heeding prophets. I did not twist your words and I'm sorry you interpreted that to be the case.

And, I think this horse has been beat to death.

 

[Jane_Doe]

(in above quote, the bold for emphasis, by me)

The OP composed by thesunisout used a quote that was not his own words, but those from a LDS prophet. He asked for clarification on that teaching (by a LDS prophet). In your words, "This statement by thesunisout is false..." making it sound like those words were something thesunisout pulled out of his own hat and composed of his own volition. With your statement to the OP, further confusion arose because we (for non-LDS) do not understand the convoluted writings and how LDS are trained to interpret the various teachings as to what be doctrine and what be speculation...though ALL be teachings.

The way you presented your first answer to thesunisout's OP as outright falsehood seemed to undermine what the D & C says about heeding prophets. I did not twist your words and I'm sorry you interpreted that to be the case.

And, I think this horse has been beat to death.

Do you yourself understand the difference now?

 

[Jane_Doe]

RE: Holy Spirit and Temple - Something I read regrading temple ceremony (in several places, including ex-mormons) "presented in the temple - where there is absolutely no mention of the Holy Ghost whatsoever. "

Here is a chapter discussing LDS doctrine on the divine person that is the Holy Ghost: Gospel Principles Chapter 7: The Holy Ghost

The New Testament that we can enter into through Jesus Christ requires no physical temple or ordinances/rituals (as the Old Testament/covenant passes away) as we follow and obey Jesus and HIS sayings.

Acts 7:48
Acts 17:24

1 Corinthians 6:19

1 Corinthians 3:16

Ephesians 2:19-22

1 Peter 2:5


The Word of God come in the flesh, Jesus Christ the firstborn. The second Adam, a new creation by the Spirit. When we truly receive the seed of His Word, by the power of the Holy Spirit through faith, we become sons/daughters of God The Father. We are transformed from the inside, and HE writes the Law upon our hearts, giving us a new nature. HE gives us the power by HIS spirit indwelling to become all HE promises in holiness and righteousness. Jesus and the Apostles taught this Gospel of peace and reconciliation between God and man that the first Adam brought upon us.

The foundation (of the Temple not made with hands) must be first laid and the house built upon THAT foundation as per HIS Gospel that comes with power.

Hebrews 6:1-3

Hebrews 5:11-12

1 Corinthians 3:11

2 Thessalonians 3:6

The scriptures that Jesus and the Apostles used promised to be enough! Jesus came to fulfill all of the Law of the Old Testament. The same spirit that raised Jesus Christ from the grave promises to come live within us in power, giving us the grace to be all we are called to be IN HIM...and HIM in us.
2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Do you not believe in baptism?

I'll address rest of your post later this morning (I got to run right now). On a quick read through I don't see anything LDS disagree with in it.

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

Here is a chapter discussing LDS doctrine on the divine person that is the Holy Ghost: Gospel Principles Chapter 7: The Holy Ghost

Do you not believe in baptism?

I'll address rest of your post later this morning (I got to run right now). On a quick read through I don't see anything LDS disagree with in it.

Yes. I have already said that...re baptism. Repentance and baptism are crucial to relationship with Christ.

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

Do you yourself understand the difference now?

I understand how you folks operate now. Another person's post helped clear that up succinctly.

Thanks for your effort Jane.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Yes. I have already said that...re baptism. Repentance and baptism are crucial to relationship with Christ.

i thought so, but was making sure. I've ran across some other Christians who view baptism as "that's a work and works don't save you- it's not needed" before. Obviously that's not the LDS view.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Thank you for being more candid than previous discourses on this thread. Many of the other wishy washy answers had inconsistencies and caused great confusion when addressing quotes from LDS prophets and teachings. How things work within that spectrum is a little clearer now, though my beliefs still differ.

RE: Holy Spirit and Temple - Something I read regrading temple ceremony (in several places, including ex-mormons) "presented in the temple - where there is absolutely no mention of the Holy Ghost whatsoever. What is taught there is that God sends down messengers from heaven to give men instruction - and they can recognize who the true messengers from God are based on tokens and signs. (Handshakes and passwords)."

The New Testament that we can enter into through Jesus Christ requires no physical temple or ordinances/rituals (as the Old Testament/covenant passes away) as we follow and obey Jesus and HIS sayings. Acts 7:48
Acts 17:24

1 Corinthians 6:19

1 Corinthians 3:16

Ephesians 2:19-22

1 Peter 2:5


The Word of God come in the flesh, Jesus Christ the firstborn. The second Adam, a new creation by the Spirit. When we truly receive the seed of His Word, by the power of the Holy Spirit through faith, we become sons/daughters of God The Father. We are transformed from the inside, and HE writes the Law upon our hearts, giving us a new nature. HE gives us the power by HIS spirit indwelling to become all HE promises in holiness and righteousness. Jesus and the Apostles taught this Gospel of peace and reconciliation between God and man that the first Adam brought upon us.

The foundation (of the Temple not made with hands) must be first laid and the house built upon THAT foundation as per HIS Gospel that comes with power.

Hebrews 6:1-3

Hebrews 5:11-12

1 Corinthians 3:11

2 Thessalonians 3:6

The scriptures that Jesus and the Apostles used promised to be enough! Jesus came to fulfill all of the Law of the Old Testament. The same spirit that raised Jesus Christ from the grave promises to come live within us in power, giving us the grace to be all we are called to be IN HIM...and HIM in us.
2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

(longer reply explaining LDS views, as promised)

Coming unto Christ involves a transformation of each one of us. All of this is made possible by Christ and through Christ, and by no other way/mean/name/etc. We (through/with Christ) cast off the natural sinful man and eventually become like Christ. This is a process which takes time and it's not going to be all done before a person dies physically (and that's ok).

The first step in this is having faith in Christ- after all it's through Christ that all of this happens. Faith is a gift from Him. The second is repentance. Third is baptism for the remission of sins. Baptism is that person make a covenant (a two-way promise) with Christ to follow Him and be His disciple- we each take His name upon us and are reborn through Him. This must be done by a willing believing accountable baptizee (after all you can only make a promise for you, not someone else), and a baptizer that has that specific authority (aka priesthood) from God to baptize in the name of Jesus Christ.

After baptism comes, laying on of hands to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. The requirements for the individuals involved are the same a those for baptism.

Does that make sense those far?

 

[BigDaddy4]

After baptism comes, laying on of hands to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. The requirements for the individuals involved are the same a those for baptism.

Which is a complete contradiction to Peter's encounter with Cornelius in Acts 10 and 11.

Acts 10:44-48
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

And Peter explains to his fellow Apostles in Acts 11:15
“As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning."

They heard the Word, they believed, Holy Spirit came on them, then they were baptized. Your comments and the lds 4th Article of Faith do not agree with the Word of God. Who is right, God or the lds?

 

[Jane_Doe]

Which is a complete contradiction to Peter's encounter with Cornelius in Acts 10 and 11.

Acts 10:44-48
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

And Peter explains to his fellow Apostles in Acts 11:15
“As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning."

They heard the Word, they believed, Holy Spirit came on them, then they were baptized. Your comments and the lds 4th Article of Faith do not agree with the Word of God. Who is right, God or the lds?

You're mixing up the Gift of the Holy Ghost and the presence of the Holy Ghost. Good reading to explain this: Gospel Principles Chapter 21: The Gift of the Holy Ghost

 

[HeLeadethMe]

It came so clear this morning through the words of Christ, that the devil's sole, express, deliberate and calculated purpose and reason for false prophets, is to lead all to the false christ, Antichrist and his false religion of all faiths united in the end time.

Have a good and prayerful look at what Jesus said about the last days and may the washing of the water of HIS word help us:


Matthew 24:4-5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.


Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.


Matthew 24:23- Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Behold, I have told you before.

Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Jesus said such a huge mouthful there. It is false prophets in every denomination of Christianity who are unknowingly being used by the devil to lead all to ultimately accept a flesh and blood false Christ (Antichrist) who can only be in one place at a time…..'look, here he is, or there'. That’s why it has never been so urgent, a matter of life and death, to compare and test everything but everything against the plumbline of God’s word.....this is why He gave it to us, because as sheep prone to wandering and being led astray by wolves in sheep's clothing, we need it.

But the real Jesus when He returns will not need to be pointed out because every eye will see Him everywhere at once, and every heart will know who He is, because He will reveal Himself to all who are left alive, and that is why every nation will be mourning and weeping in repentance for having rejected the real Jesus and followed the Antichrist. It also reveals something about Antichrist's false religion.....how it leads people to believe that they can be christs..........the false notion that all religion is for the purpose of exalting man in this way. It's new age......it goes by many different names in many different disguises, to deceive....subtle as the serpent at the tree......so it's really not new at all, but the same old lie that ye shall be as gods.

Even if members of a church or denomination don't yet believe some of the more questionable things, their leaders high up do believe them, and that is why they allow such things to be disseminated instead of correcting them.....and when they lay hands on members of the congregation they are transferring the lying spirits they have received through their deceptions, into the members, not the HOLY Spirit. It is light within them that is darkness and how great is that darkness. And we have to remember how can two walk together except they be agreed, anyway....?

So the message remains the same.........come out of her my people, touch not the unclean thing, and I will receive you says the Lord. Lest you partake of her sins and receive of her plagues. His word is the only word that makes sense, and always proven right, and I pray it will find entrance into hearts, if any are sincere and love the truth.