God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved

[Bond-servant of Christ]

"1Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time" (1 Timothy 2)

Here we have one of the clearest passages in the Bible, for the Universal Death for the Salvation of the entire human race. This is known as "pontential" salvation.

In every instance in this passage, the word "ALL", refers, not, as some teach, to just an "elect" few, but the whole human race. The "ALL men", here include "ALL those in authority", as kings and other leaders. There is no restriction here that this is limited to only a few leaders, but ALL. Then Paul informs us, that it is "good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior", that we pray for this, because God, "DESIRES" the salvation of ALL MEN, those ALL mentioned earlier. Further, we read that Jesus Christ is the "Mediator between God and men,", that is, the ALL MEN in this passage, the human race. It then says that Jesus Christ, "gave Himself a ransom for all", the same ALL in this entire passage.

No honest, Bible-believing Christian can take these words in any other way, unless for theological bias, than for what it very plainly says, that God desires (wills) that the whole human race were saved. This is exactly what the Apostle John says in his Gospel, 3:16.

This is the heart of the God of the Holy Bible. Yet there are some who oppose this.

 

[Kenny'sID]

"1Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time" (1 Timothy 2)

Here we have one of the clearest passages in the Bible, for the Universal Death for the Salvation of the entire human race. This is known as "pontential" salvation.

In every instance in this passage, the word "ALL", refers, not, as some teach, to just an "elect" few, but the whole human race. The "ALL men", here include "ALL those in authority", as kings and other leaders. There is no restriction here that this is limited to only a few leaders, but ALL. Then Paul informs us, that it is "good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior", that we pray for this, because God, "DESIRES" the salvation of ALL MEN, those ALL mentioned earlier. Further, we read that Jesus Christ is the "Mediator between God and men,", that is, the ALL MEN in this passage, the human race. It then says that Jesus Christ, "gave Himself a ransom for all", the same ALL in this entire passage.

No honest, Bible-believing Christian can take these words in any other way, unless for theological bias, than for what it very plainly says, that God desires (wills) that the whole human race were saved. This is exactly what the Apostle John says in his Gospel, 3:16.

This is the heart of the God of the Holy Bible. Yet there are some who oppose this.

Agree, and am awaiting the poster who will explain how all means something other than "all"

 

[RaymondG]

What does this mean for the many who are striving to make it in......those who are good because only the righteous shall see God? Should they now stop striving and stop trying to be good....because they will be saved regardless?

 

[bling]

"1Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time" (1 Timothy 2)

Here we have one of the clearest passages in the Bible, for the Universal Death for the Salvation of the entire human race. This is known as "pontential" salvation.

In every instance in this passage, the word "ALL", refers, not, as some teach, to just an "elect" few, but the whole human race. The "ALL men", here include "ALL those in authority", as kings and other leaders. There is no restriction here that this is limited to only a few leaders, but ALL. Then Paul informs us, that it is "good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior", that we pray for this, because God, "DESIRES" the salvation of ALL MEN, those ALL mentioned earlier. Further, we read that Jesus Christ is the "Mediator between God and men,", that is, the ALL MEN in this passage, the human race. It then says that Jesus Christ, "gave Himself a ransom for all", the same ALL in this entire passage.

No honest, Bible-believing Christian can take these words in any other way, unless for theological bias, than for what it very plainly says, that God desires (wills) that the whole human race were saved. This is exactly what the Apostle John says in his Gospel, 3:16.

This is the heart of the God of the Holy Bible. Yet there are some who oppose this.

Try just this small part of it:

There is this unbelievable huge “ransom payment” being made: Jesus, Peter, Paul, John and the author of Hebrews all describe it as an actual ransom scenario and not just “like a ransom scenario”. And we can all agree on: the payment being Christ’s torture, humiliation and murder, the Payer being God/Christ, the child being set free (sinners going to God), but have a problem with: “Who is the kidnapper”? If there is no kidnapper than the ransom scenario does not fit, so who is the kidnapper?

Some people try to make God the receiver of the payment, which calls God the kidnapper of His own children which is crazy.

Some people say satan is the kidnapper, but that would mean God is paying satan when God has the power to safely take anything from satan and it would be wrong for God to pay satan.

Some say it is an intangible like death, evil, sin, or nothing, but you would not pay a huge payment to an intangible?

There is one very likely kidnapper and that is the person holding a child back from entering the Kingdom to be with God. When we go to the nonbeliever, we are not trying to convince them of an idea, a book, a doctrine or theology, but to accept Jesus Christ and Him crucified (which is described as the ransom payment). If the nonbeliever accepts the ransom payment (Jesus Christ) there is a child released to go to the Father, but if the nonbeliever refuses to accept Jesus Christ and Him crucified a child is kept out of the Kingdom. Does this all sounds very much like a kidnapping scenario?

Yes, Christ is the ransom payment for all, but the kidnapper can accept or reject the payment. If the kidnapper rejects this unbelievable huge payment, the payers of the ransom are going to be upset with that kidnapper.

There is a lot more to say about this, but this is an introduction.

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

Try just this small part of it:

There is this unbelievable huge “ransom payment” being made: Jesus, Peter, Paul, John and the author of Hebrews all describe it as an actual ransom scenario and not just “like a ransom scenario”. And we can all agree on: the payment being Christ’s torture, humiliation and murder, the Payer being God/Christ, the child being set free (sinners going to God), but have a problem with: “Who is the kidnapper”? If there is no kidnapper than the ransom scenario does not fit, so who is the kidnapper?

Some people try to make God the receiver of the payment, which calls God the kidnapper of His own children which is crazy.

Some people say satan is the kidnapper, but that would mean God is paying satan when God has the power to safely take anything from satan and it would be wrong for God to pay satan.

Some say it is an intangible like death, evil, sin, or nothing, but you would not pay a huge payment to an intangible?

There is one very likely kidnapper and that is the person holding a child back from entering the Kingdom to be with God. When we go to the nonbeliever, we are not trying to convince them of an idea, a book, a doctrine or theology, but to accept Jesus Christ and Him crucified (which is described as the ransom payment). If the nonbeliever accepts the ransom payment (Jesus Christ) there is a child released to go to the Father, but if the nonbeliever refuses to accept Jesus Christ and Him crucified a child is kept out of the Kingdom. Does this all sounds very much like a kidnapping scenario?

Yes, Christ is the ransom payment for all, but the kidnapper can accept or reject the payment. If the kidnapper rejects this unbelievable huge payment, the payers of the ransom are going to be upset with that kidnapper.

There is a lot more to say about this, but this is an introduction.

the "Ransom" payment is the Blood of Jesus Christ, shed for all sinners on the cross, for their sins. All sinners are enslaved to the devil and sin, and it is only through the shed blood (death) of the Lord Jesus, and faith in His blood, that can release the sinner. There is NO "kidnapping", but enslavement to the devil/sin.

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

What does this mean for the many who are striving to make it in......those who are good because only the righteous shall see God? Should they now stop striving and stop trying to be good....because they will be saved regardless?

there is NO slavation without the sincere "repentance and faith" (Mark 1:15) of the sinner. No one is "good enough" to enter heaven, for ALL have sinned.

 

[Soyeong]

"1Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time" (1 Timothy 2)

Here we have one of the clearest passages in the Bible, for the Universal Death for the Salvation of the entire human race. This is known as "pontential" salvation.

In every instance in this passage, the word "ALL", refers, not, as some teach, to just an "elect" few, but the whole human race. The "ALL men", here include "ALL those in authority", as kings and other leaders. There is no restriction here that this is limited to only a few leaders, but ALL. Then Paul informs us, that it is "good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior", that we pray for this, because God, "DESIRES" the salvation of ALL MEN, those ALL mentioned earlier. Further, we read that Jesus Christ is the "Mediator between God and men,", that is, the ALL MEN in this passage, the human race. It then says that Jesus Christ, "gave Himself a ransom for all", the same ALL in this entire passage.

No honest, Bible-believing Christian can take these words in any other way, unless for theological bias, than for what it very plainly says, that God desires (wills) that the whole human race were saved. This is exactly what the Apostle John says in his Gospel, 3:16.

This is the heart of the God of the Holy Bible. Yet there are some who oppose this.

Someone can desire to exercise and to eat a healthy diet, but they can also desire to sit around watching TV all day while eating junk food. So we can desire to do multiple different things, but if they are mutually exclusive, then only one of them will get done while the others will not even though we still desire to do them. God desires that we freely choose to love Him and that is mutually exclusive with the desire for all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth, so that passage does not refer to universal salvation. Someone can still choose to remain inside of a prison cell even though their ransom has been paid and the door has been flung upon.

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

so that passage does not refer to universal salvation

the Bible does NOT teach a "universal salvation", but that every human CAN be saved, because Jesus has died for them, though not forgiven them unless they "repent and believe"

 

[Francis Drake]

4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

No honest, Bible-believing Christian can take these words in any other way, unless for theological bias, than for what it very plainly says, that God desires (wills) that the whole human race were saved.

Amen.
1Jn2v2He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

The price has been paid, it just remains for men to repent and accept what God has done on our behalf.

 

[RaymondG]

there is NO slavation without the sincere "repentance and faith" (Mark 1:15) of the sinner. No one is "good enough" to enter heaven, for ALL have sinned.

You said in your OP that God wills that all be saved. Now it seems that you are saying that all will not be saved unless they do something to receive this salvation.

So now im confused...... How important do you think the will of God is? Is our will and actions greater than the will of the father and the actions of the son? e.g. does my will trump God's? Should we even pray in the will of God, if my own will is what will matter in the end?

Is Adam's actions in the beginning, which condemned the whole(100%) world, and my actions of non repentance, greater and more powerful than the act of the cross?

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

You said in your OP that God wills that all be saved. Now it seems that you are saying that all will not be saved unless they do something to receive this salvation.

So now im confused...... How important do you think the will of God is? Is our will and actions greater than the will of the father and the actions of the son? e.g. does my will trump God's? Should we even pray in the will of God, if my own will is what will matter in the end?

Is Adam's actions in the beginning, which condemned the whole(100%) world, and my actions of non repentance, greater and more powerful than the act of the cross?

It is not up to myself, but God has already determined in His Word, exactly how a lost sinner can be saved and get to heaven. Both "repentance and faith" are prerequisites, for the salvation of any sinner. This is God's Way, and the ONLY Way.

 

[RaymondG]

It is not up to myself, but God has already determined in His Word, exactly how a lost sinner can be saved and get to heaven. Both "repentance and faith" are prerequisites, for the salvation of any sinner. This is God's Way, and the ONLY Way.

Are you now saying that God's way and God's Will are different? Is one more or less important than the other?

You told us all what God's will was in your OP. Now, just as plainly, tell us how important God's Will should be to us.

If you tell us that the will of God, that you specified in the OP, will fail, e.g. some will not conform to it, Than you tell us, that we should not regard the will of God as important at all. And if you say that MOST will not conform to this will......then you also say that we should basically dismiss any will of God mentioned in scripture.....for they, most likely, will not come to pass.

So which is it? How important should God's will, be to us?

 

[bling]

the "Ransom" payment is the Blood of Jesus Christ, shed for all sinners on the cross, for their sins. All sinners are enslaved to the devil and sin, and it is only through the shed blood (death) of the Lord Jesus, and faith in His blood, that can release the sinner. There is NO "kidnapping", but enslavement to the devil/sin.

Mark 10:45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

1 Timothy 2:6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time

Heb. 9: 15…now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

We do have the blood specifically mentioned in Revelation 5:9 They sing a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slaughtered and by your blood you ransomed for God saints from every tribe and language and people and nation;

But in Revelation you have the slaughter and the blood. The slaughtering would refer to the physical damaging of the Body.

To be clear: “Blood” does sometimes stand for the life of a living person or animal, since the life is in the blood.

The “ransom payment” described by Jesus is not just red blood cells but His life.

Are we in agreement:

1. Jesus life is the unbelievable huge ransom payment?

2. The ransom payment was made to set children free to go to the Kingdom and be with the Father?

3. Deity (Jesus and God both) made this unbelievable huge payment?

4. All these fit perfectly a ransom scenario?

5. The scripture is not describing Jesus’ cruel torturous death on the cross as being like a ransom payment, but as being a ransom payment?

6. This was all done for “many” and “God’s saints” in some way and in other ways for “all” people?

You may have a problem with “6”, but I am just quoting scripture.

You make a curious statement which does not support your conclusion by saying: “…and faith in His blood, that can release the sinner.” By adding “faith” you are making salvation contingent on the person doing something, so is it not everyone?

You then go on to say: “NO "kidnapping" and seem to suggest it is a “payment” to satan?

If it is not a kidnapping then it is no “ransoming”, but the Bible tells us there is a ransom payment at least being offered and definitely made for “many” and “God’s saints”.

Peter even help us out more by contrasting the unbelievable huge payment of Christ to just a payment of silver and gold. Who might take silver and gold, so it can be a good analogy for Peter? 1 Peter 1:18 You know that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your ancestors, not with perishable things like silver or gold,

A kidnapper holds back the parent’s children awaiting an acceptable ransom payment, so who do you blame for keeping children out of the Kingdom, since we sure do not want to blame ourselves?

 

[Francis Drake]

You said in your OP that God wills that all be saved. Now it seems that you are saying that all will not be saved unless they do something to receive this salvation.

3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
God desires that all men be saved, but God gives man freewill, therefore God doesn't get all his desires.

So now im confused...... How important do you think the will of God is?

The will of God is that man has freewill to obey or rebel.

Is our will and actions greater than the will of the father and the actions of the son?

When God has granted man freewill, then definitely yes!

e.g. does my will trump God's? Should we even pray in the will of God, if my own will is what will matter in the end?

Is Adam's actions in the beginning, which condemned the whole(100%) world, and my actions of non repentance, greater and more powerful than the act of the cross?

The necessity of the cross was entirely because Adam exercised his freewill rebellion against God's stated will.

 

[RaymondG]

3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
God desires that all men be saved, but God gives man freewill, therefore God doesn't get all his desires.

God doesnt Get all He desires? Didnt know that.

The will of God is that man has freewill to obey or rebel.

You stated that it is God's desire that all be saved....yet this will not happen... Therefore we must conclude also, that if God desires to give us freewill........not all will receive it.

When God has granted man freewill, then definitely yes!

I understand that you believe your will, can trump God's will.....And I find no fault in that.

The necessity of the cross was entirely because Adam exercised his freewill rebellion against God's stated will.

Adam seems to be more powerful than Jesus......since his act covered the whole world without their consent, Yet God needs consent to save us. Why do we worship the Adam with less power?

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

You said in your OP that God wills that all be saved. Now it seems that you are saying that all will not be saved unless they do something to receive this salvation.

So now im confused...... How important do you think the will of God is? Is our will and actions greater than the will of the father and the actions of the son? e.g. does my will trump God's? Should we even pray in the will of God, if my own will is what will matter in the end?

Is Adam's actions in the beginning, which condemned the whole(100%) world, and my actions of non repentance, greater and more powerful than the act of the cross?

the sinner has to REPENT and BELIEVE in the Gospel to get saved. Just because God "desires" the salvation of all, does not mean that ALL are automatically saved. There are certain conditions that God has set in place that we must follow for salvation

 

[5thKingdom]

the Bible does NOT teach a "universal salvation", but that every human CAN be saved, because Jesus has died for them, though not forgiven them unless they "repent and believe"

You say that every man CAN be saved.
The Lord Jesus Christ contradicts you and says that some men
were NEVER MEANT to be saved. That destroys your entire "gospel"
immediately.... they were NEVER MEANT to be forgiven. Deal with it.


Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand;
lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.



.

 

[5thKingdom]

the sinner has to REPENT and BELIEVE in the Gospel to get saved. Just because God "desires" the salvation of all, does not mean that ALL are automatically saved. There are certain conditions that God has set in place that we must follow for salvation

No man can "repent" or "believe" until AFTER regenerated (born again)
You are talking about MEN deciding who gets saved instead of GOD
deciding who gets saved. You teach the OPPOSITE of the Gospel.


.,

 

[RaymondG]

the sinner has to REPENT and BELIEVE in the Gospel to get saved. Just because God "desires" the salvation of all, does not mean that ALL are automatically saved. There are certain conditions that God has set in place that we must follow for salvation

Does mankind need to hear about and believe in the story of Adam eating the fruit in the Garden to become a sinner? Or was Adams actions powerful enough to effect all after him without their consent or help?

Now tell me how you feel about the actions of the cross? How powerful do you believe that was? Does it have to same, or less power than the actions of Adam?

Do you believe that the bible was in error when it lightened Jesus' actions to that of Adams.....when, it seems, that Jesus' actions were far less superior than Adam's since Jesus requires our help for His actions to have any effectiveness at all?

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

Does mankind need to hear about and believe in the story of Adam eating the fruit in the Garden to become a sinner? Or was Adams actions powerful enough to effect all after him without their consent or help?

Now tell me how you feel about the actions of the cross? How powerful do you believe that was? Does it have to same, or less power than the actions of Adam?

Do you believe that the bible was in error when it lightened Jesus' actions to that of Adams.....when, it seems, that Jesus' actions were far less superior than Adam's since Jesus requires our help for His actions to have any effectiveness at all?

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

please explain as I can't understand?