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God making Jesus visible Ruler in the 3rd heaven.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Marilyn C, Jul 5, 2017.

  1. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    We know from God`s word that the Lord Jesus Christ is now seated at the right hand of the Father in the highest, far above all in this age and the one to come.

    Christ...`when He had by Himself purged our sins sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.` (Heb. 1: 3)

    `God (the Father)...seated Him (Christ) at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.` (Eph. 1: 20 & 21)

    We also know that one day He will go from that throne to His own throne.

    `To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne, as I also overcame and sat down with my father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

    Now we need to note that the word `throne,` means authority, and not a chair or piece of furniture in the heavens. Thus we see that God the Father has ultimate authority and that one day He will give His Son, the glorified Lord Jesus, specific authority.

    David in the Psalms tells us by the Holy Spirit that God the Father has His Son sit at His right hand while He (the Father) makes His enemies His footstool. Then He tells His Son to `rule in the midst of your enemies!` (Ps. 110: 1 & 2)

    So we realise that the Father is going to give His Son the rulership to execute the judgments upon the rebellious nations.

    `God the Father has....given Him (the Son) authority to execute judgment.` (John 5: 27)

    When will all this happen? God tells us in Psalm 2 that He has appointed His Son on Mount Zion (the heavenly MT. Zion) as king, who will receive the nations as His inheritance and rule over them with a rod of iron.

    `God the Father to the Son.....I will give you the nations for your inheritance and the ends of the earth for your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron; you shall dash them in pieces like a potter`s vessel.` (Ps. 2: 8 & 9)

    Thus I believe, that God the Father will appoint His Son as King on Mount Zion in the heavens and from there rule over the nations in the tribulation bringing judgments upon them.

    There is much to discuss with this topic, so I hope we can all share from God`s word to come to know more of our great saviour`s supreme authority over all.

    Christ&BC3rdH..jpg
     
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  2. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The potter destroys the flawed pots with the rod of iron.
    He does not correct them.


    This happens at the Second Coming of Christ, when He destroys those who do not belong to Him.

    The Judgment at Christ's Coming (Subtitle from e-Sword)

    2Th 1:5  which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 
    2Th 1:6  since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 
    2Th 1:7  and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 
    2Th 1:8  in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 
    2Th 1:9  These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 
    2Th 1:10  when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed. 


    Notice that Christ returns in "flaming fire".

    When does the fire come in other passages?

    2 Peter 3:10

    Revelation 20:9

    .
     
  3. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi BABerean,

    Thank you for giving details of one part of my OP. Have you any comments on other parts? How about how the Lord executes the judgments during the tribulation? I said -

    Thus I believe, that God the Father will appoint His Son as King on Mount Zion in the heavens and from there rule over the nations in the tribulation bringing judgments upon them.

    Marilyn.
     
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Great illustration, Marilyn, as it currently is. But soon to change.
     
  5. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi Douggg,

    Thank you, and how so, as you see it? (from God`s word)

    Marilyn.
     
  6. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    For one thing the second heaven, the universe, is going to be removed in Revelation 6, the sixth seal.

    And when Satan and his angels are cast down to earth, their place will be found there no more Revelation 12:8- because the cosmos is going to be removed near the end of seven years - also in Matthew 24:29.
     
  7. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi Douggg,

    Thanks for replying. Now when Satan and his demonic angels are cast down to the earth, it is referring to their authority and power. Their place, in the invisible part of the Universe, the authority area they usurped will certainly still be there, for God has planned that a community of people will occupy that position. Remember what the Holy Spirit said through Paul in Colossians -

    `For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or power. All things were created through Him and FOR HIM.` (Col. 1: 16)

    So we see that as rebellious rulership is put down the authority position will be filled by whom the Lord says, as those positions were created FOR HIM.

    Marilyn.
     
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Hi Marilyn,

    All things created by Christ. But some of those things are in rebellion and out of God's will for it to be like that. I would look at Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    Currently, Satan and his angels - their principality is in high places - the second heaven.

    Which I believe is Mystery Babylon the great. Babylon is fallen is fallen - that will be when Satan and his angels are cast down, restricted to earth.
     
  9. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi Douggg,

    I agree with your first comments, however Babylon in Rev. 17 & 18 is a `great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.` (Rev. 17: 18) The religious aspect of that city will be burnt by the 10 kings and the economic aspect, God will deal with. The `fallen, fallen,` refers to the 2 aspects - Religion and Economics, (financial, commercial enterprises and multinationals etc)

    Marilyn.


     
  10. saint2

    saint2 Regular Member Supporter

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    Hi Marilyn

    I'm in general agreement with your OP and that there is much to discus

    I believe our Father is going to give His Son the rulership to execute judgments upon the rebellious nations only after the fullness of the Gentiles has come in and God returns his attention back to Jacob.

    Then Jesus will first begin executing righteous judgments on earth when he returns to Mount Olives to save the Jewish remnant in Jerusalem (Zec 14:2-4)

    Zechariah 14:2
    For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives

    Bob..
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
  11. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi saint2,

    Glad you found us here and that we agree on some things.

    Zech. 14: 2-4 as you said shows the Lord dealing with the nations. However have you ever considered that the Lord was given the authority and power at the beginning of the tribulation. We read in Rev. 4: 11, 5: 12 & 13, how the Lord is given power, dominion, etc

    Then at the beginning of the judgments we read of the Lord, the high Priest, symbolically shown as an angel, in the heavenly sanctuary taking fire from the altar and throwing it to the earth. The blowing of trumpets was a priestly activity and it is only when the Lord throws the fire to the earth that the trumpets prepare to sound. He initiates the beginning of the judgments.

    There are many other judgments as we know throughout the trib, and as the Father has given the Son the authority and power to execute these, then He is ruling before He comes to earth.

    regards, Marilyn.
     
  12. saint2

    saint2 Regular Member Supporter

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    Marilyn, It's rare to find any book of prophecy to be one continuum as most seem to see the book of Revelation.

    I may be wrong but I see Revelation chapters 4 through 20:10 as seven overlapping visions, and chapters 20:11 onward as an eighth vision of new beginnings. So in my understanding, the Millennium comes after the fifth seal and before the sixth seal. A far different chronology than you're presenting. The Millennium is just a blip in the overall scheme of things. But that's all a different thread.

    In the book of Daniel we see that the saints and the Son of Man do not have authority to execute justice on the earth until the heavenly courts adjudicate the matter. The saints are shown to be in heaven when this matter comes up before the court, therefore I believe only after the full number of Gentiles has come in (Romans 11:25) will we see justice on earth.

    Daniel 7:26
    Then the court shall sit in judgment, and his [little horn] dominion shall be taken away, to be consumed and totally destroyed. 27 The kingship and dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the holy ones of the Most High; their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey them.

    Bob..
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
  13. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi saint2,

    Actually I also see the overlapping of the visions, but that as you said is for another thread. But not quite the same as you see it. Room for discussion there.

    Now to Daniel 7 which is the same vision as Rev. 4 & 5 but in a different order. The Lord is the Heaven`s High Court judge and the Body of Christ is the heavenly court.

    `Do you not know that the saints will judge the world (system)?....Do you not know that that we shall judge angels?...(1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)


    As to the `fullness of the Gentiles has come in,` that is not referring to the Body of Christ, but the Gentile system of Government that will be judged, (as Dan. 7 reveals).

    The Body of Christ comes to completion when it is brought to the unity of the faith, by the Holy Spirit. (Eph. 4: 13)

    `...till we all come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the statue of the fullness of Christ.` (Eph. 4: 13)

    Marilyn.
     
  14. saint2

    saint2 Regular Member Supporter

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    Hi Marilyn,

    Revelation chapters 4 and 5 make up the first of seven day of the Lord visions which John saw.

    This vision begins with John's entry into heaven, Revelation 4:1, symbolizing the church's rapture at the beginning of the day of the Lord. The vision ends with universal praise for God and the Lamb, Revelation 5:13, marking the end of the day of the Lord.

    Marilyn, I'm not sure what connection you have in mind with this vision and the Daniel 7 vision?


    As to the Body of Christ, I refer to the Council of Jerusalem's decision concerning the Gentiles who were then turning to God. Peter knew from the Amos 9:11 prophecy that the Lord would return after the fullness of Gentiles had come in.

    Acts 15:14
    Simeon has related how God first looked favorably on the Gentiles, to take from among them a people for his name.
    15 This agrees with the words of the prophets, as it is written,
    16 ‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the dwelling of David, which has fallen; from its ruins I will rebuild it, and I will set it up,
    17 so that all other peoples may seek the Lord—


    Bob..
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
  15. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi saint2,

    Yes, sorry I mistook that scripture in Romans for the Luke 21: 24, `times of the Gentiles.` You are correct, that is when the gentiles will have come into the Body of Christ.

    Marilyn.
     
  16. saint2

    saint2 Regular Member Supporter

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    Hi Marilyn,

    Yes, on a quick reading of the text, it's easy to confuse the "times of the Gentiles fulfilled" with the "fullness of the Gentiles".

    As you say, the one speaks of the Gentile system of Government that will be judged, while the other speaks of the Body of Christ.

    Luke 21:24 ...and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

    Romans 11:25...I want you to understand this mystery: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved ...


    Bob..
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
  17. saint2

    saint2 Regular Member Supporter

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    ...and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled (Luke 21:24b)


    After the Millennium, Jerusalem will be trampled on one more time. This final trampling will be by Gog and his armies who surround the beloved city after the Millennium and after the rest of the dead have returned to life (Revelation 20:5-8)

    This final trampling of the mountains of Israel will be to purify the land of Israel prior to God's dwelling there in the Ezekiel Temple.

    Ezekiel 43:12 This is the law of the temple: the whole territory on the top of the mountain all around shall be most holy. This is the law of the temple.


    The land of Israel has been polluted by the blood shed there by the invading armies in the past. This pollution can only be cleansed by the blood of the ones who shed it.

    imo Gog will bring with him the resurrected armies of those who have invaded Israel in the past. These armies will then be slaughtered there on the mountains of Israel and their poured out blood there will cleanse and purify the land of Israel.

    Numbers 35:33
    You shall not pollute the land in which you live; for blood pollutes the land.
    No expiation can be made for the land, for the blood that is shed in it, except by the blood of the one who shed it.
    You shall not defile the land in which you live, in which I also dwell; for I the Lord dwell among the Israelites.


    This scenario of Gog bringing the nations to Israel is reflected in the prophecy of Joel

    Joel 3:14
    Multitudes, multitudes,
    in the valley of decision!
    For the day of the Lord is near
    in the valley of decision.
    15 The sun and the moon are darkened,
    and the stars withdraw their shining.
    16 The Lord roars from Zion,
    and utters his voice from Jerusalem,
    and the heavens and the earth shake.
    But the Lord is a refuge for his people,
    a stronghold for the people of Israel.
    17 So you shall know that I, the Lord your God,
    dwell in Zion, my holy mountain.
    And Jerusalem shall be holy,
    and strangers shall never again pass through it.


    Bob..
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
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