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Featured God loves everyone?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Hammster, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Let's delve into Acts 10:34-35 for a sec: Why do they fear Him and do what is right? Because they chose to out of their own free will? Or because it was in their [God-given] nature to do so?
     
  2. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    According to verse 34, God does not show partiality, and the definition of the Greek word “welcome or accepted” in verse 35 it must be because of their own choice. If not then you would be saying that God has appointed them so that He could welcome them which would show partiality on God’s part and not really make any sense that He would appoint them so that they could fear Him and do what is right in order that He could welcome them. If God has appointed them then they are already accepted. The context here indicates a request on the believers part in order to be welcomed and accepted which would be a synergetic situation in that God requires us to cooperate with Him so that we might be saved. Cooperation with God is indicated throughout the scriptures from the beginning of repentance all the way thru sanctification unto salvation. Hence we must abide in Christ and endure to the end in order to be saved otherwise we will face judgement based on our unbelief.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
  3. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    In the context of believers, this is true (see Romans 2:10-11). Obviously if you are "chosen" by God, you receive God's favor, if not, then you don't. This is easily seen in parables regarding the separating of the sheep and the goats; wheat and tares. Why was Israel chosen by God and other nations weren't? Why was Noah chosen to survive, but the rest of the world wasn't? The point is, God's lack of favoritism creates equality in the family of God. As believers, rich or poor, we are loved equally immensely by our Creator.

    Sure, by again, we need to address why some fail to cooperate and others succeed. It comes from faith, and this is the crux of our disconnect: You say faith is self-mainfested, I say it's a gift from God. You say man chooses, I say God chooses:

    Romans 9:15-16
     
  4. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    What was the reason Jesus gave for condemning the goats? The reason He gave had nothing to do with election.

    “"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."”
    ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41-46‬ ‭NASB‬‬

    They were condemned because they did not have love for others and as a result they did not bear fruit. They did not abide in Christ.

    Israel was chosen to show God’s glory so that later all nations could see His glory and repent and be saved. Noah was saved because he was the only person in the world who was considered to be righteous by God.

    “Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. The LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them." But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD. These are the records of the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God. Noah became the father of three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Now the earth was corrupt in the sight of God, and the earth was filled with violence. God looked on the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth.”
    ‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-12‬ ‭NASB‬‬

    By this we can see that all of man was corrupted and wicked which was the reason of their demise. Noah on the other hand was righteous and walked with God (synergist). Now it says that God was grieved in His heart by man’s wickedness. Why would God be grieved in His heart if their wickedness was the result of Him not choosing them? Why would He not choose them and cause His own heart to grieve?
     
  5. Hammster

    Hammster Buckeye Newshawk Award Winner Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Favor (grace) came before righteousness. Just like today.
     
  6. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Grace is the gift from God that enables us to have faith. Faith does not precede grace. God bestows grace on all who seek Him.

    “"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!”
    ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:7-11‬ ‭NASB‬‬
     
  7. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Why was God grieved in His heart by man’s wickedness if He knew their wickedness was the result of Him not choosing them for salvation and not bestowing grace to them?
     
  8. Hammster

    Hammster Buckeye Newshawk Award Winner Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    He hates sin.
     
  9. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Grace is the gift from God that enables us to have faith. Faith does not precede grace. God bestows grace on all who seek Him.
    About Romans 9:15-16

    Consider verse 22

    “What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?”
    ‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:22‬ ‭NASB‬‬

    Paul has not finished his message in chapter 9.

    “For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: " DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ' WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), or ' WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." But what does it say? " THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART "-that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, " WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for " WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, " HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!" However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, " LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?" So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; " THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD." But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says, "I WILL MAKE YOU JEALOUS BY THAT WHICH IS NOT A NATION, BY A NATION WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING WILL I ANGER YOU." And Isaiah is very bold and says, "I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO DID NOT SEEK ME, I BECAME MANIFEST TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME." But as for Israel He says, " ALL THE DAY LONG I HAVE STRETCHED OUT MY HANDS TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE."”
    ‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:3-21‬ ‭NASB‬‬

    God has stretched out His hands to a disobedient obstinate people. Is God stretching out His hands to people He hasn’t elected knowing that they are in total depravity and are incapable of repentance? That wouldn’t make any sense unless they were capable of repenting but were choosing of their own free will to be stubborn. But according to the doctrine of election a person cannot resist grace. So if Calvin was correct either these people have been elected by God and are residing grace or they have not been elected by God and yet God is expecting them to repent while they are incapable of doing so. Either way Calvin’s doctrines aren’t making any sense here.
     
  10. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    But God was grieved by man’s actions which according to Calvinism is the result of God’s decision not man’s. Can you please elaborate? I notice your answers seem to get very short and vague when dealing with these kinds of questions.
     
  11. Hammster

    Hammster Buckeye Newshawk Award Winner Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I make them easy to understand.

    Man sin’s freely. God doesn’t make man sin. He hates sin. That’s pretty straightforward.
     
  12. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    All men sin so that doesn’t explain much.
     
  13. Hammster

    Hammster Buckeye Newshawk Award Winner Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Why not? Do you think sin goes unpunished?
     
  14. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    My point is that sin does not separate the elect from those who are not elected. Both still sin and both are deserving of the same punishment.
     
  15. Hammster

    Hammster Buckeye Newshawk Award Winner Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Of course they do. So I guess I don’t get your point.
     
  16. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    My point is that sin is irrelevant to the equation and doesn’t answer the question why did God grieve in His heart because of the wickedness of man if He knew they could not repent unless He enables them to do so?

    He grieved because man rejected God’s calling of his own free will. Man desires to serve satan over serving God.
     
  17. Hammster

    Hammster Buckeye Newshawk Award Winner Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I don’t see how sin is irrelevant. Why do you think He caused the flood?
     
  18. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    He caused the flood to wipe out the wickedness because it had overran the world. But your still not answering my question. Why would God grieve over the wickedness of men when He knew that He had made them incapable of repentance?
     
  19. Hammster

    Hammster Buckeye Newshawk Award Winner Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    He didn’t make them incapable. Nobody was running around saying “I want to repent, but cannot,”.
     
  20. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Then they were capable of repentance?
     
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