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Featured God loves everyone?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Hammster, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    That's the side we see of a man from the human perspective.
    It does not explain why they are doing what is right, Jesus already explained their good deeds were wrought in God. Wrought implies worked on like wrought iron hammered and shaped by a craftsman, and that would be God at work in our life.
    Wrought means worked into shape by artistry or effort, that would be God's part.
    We are the one molded, He is the potter, and we the clay.
     
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  2. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Peter is talking to his beloved but when he said The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward YOU (not us) not willing (desiring) that any should perish but that all should come to repentance he means all people meaning everyone. God desires all to repent and be saved. 1 Timothy 2:1-6 confirms this.

    “First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.”
    ‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:1-6‬ ‭NASB‬‬

    John 3:16-17 is also another indication.
     
  3. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Lol you always intentionally seek the most obtuse way of viewing anything anyone says that disagrees with your point of view.
     
  4. Hammster

    Hammster 2019 Dundie Award Winner Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    How else am I supposed to look at what you said?
     
  5. Hammster

    Hammster 2019 Dundie Award Winner Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    And you might want to check your criticisms at the door. ;)

    God loves everyone?
     
  6. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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  7. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    All does not always mean each and every single one. Here is a good example of that.
    v11, appeared to all men all over the world, not that all men are going to be saved.
    because v13 qualifies the prior v11 and 12. All men will not be looking for the glorious return of Christ. they dont want Him to come back from the dead to rule over them. And so then v14 also must mean only the church who have the atonement of their sins.

    All often is speaking of all of the them in the saved church, not all of the unsaved and saved together as one people.
    'Teaching US', certainly the world is not being taught by the Holy Spirit. They dont want anytthing to do with Christ and God. But they do love the false Christs.
    Christ died for us, that we will live to God having eternal life. Certainly the world is not being purified.

    Titus 2
    11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

    15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.

    Same thing with John 3:16, whosoever believes will be saved, but those verses don't say why they do believe.
     
  8. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    John 12:32 NKJV
    And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”

    And that is how the verse is published as all peoples, as all types of men.
    There is another good example where the intention of all is not every single person who ever lived after Christ was resurrected. All means some from every nation, tribe, kindred and tongue will be drawn to Christ and saved. Which agrees with many other scriptures about what actually happens. And this verse is not a potential being saved idea, all those who are drawn come to Christ.
    Example
    John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
     
  9. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    Here is another 'all', but the context is not all men everywhere, the context is all of those God foreknew and predestined to be conformed to Christ. So all of them, not all of the world.
    Romans 8
    31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.

    God does not ever, never give all of the world all things, that is reserved only for His church who overcomes.

    Rev 21
    7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
    8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

    If anyone tells you the unbelieving get a second chance at eternal life after death, becuase they had never heard, show them v8

    When they are staring at the Lake of Fire, at the great white throne judgement with the Lord God Almighty looking over the books of their deeds, they will believe all right, but it will be too late. They have just been resurrected from Hell, and will know they are guilty before God with their sins not atoned for by Christ.

    Worth a read about those going into that judgement and the Lake of Fire!
    https://banneroftruth.org/us/resour...of-fire-whats-it-like-who-goes-there-and-why/
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
  10. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    No my friend you are incorrect, the word people is not even in the Greek translation. He simply said I will draw all to myself. Here’s a word for word translation. The English translation is in ()

    John 12:32

    32 κἀγὼ (I also) G2504 PPro-S1C ἐὰν (if) G1437 Conj ὑψωθῶ (lifted) G5312 V-ASP-1S ἐκ (from) G1537 Prep τῆς (the) G3588 Art-GFS γῆς (earth) G1093 N-GFS πάντας (all) G3956 Adj-AMP ἑλκύσω (draw) G1670 V-FIA-1S πρὸς (unto) G4314 Prep ἐμαυτόν (myself) G1683 PPro-AM1S
     
  11. Hammster

    Hammster 2019 Dundie Award Winner Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    And once again, you ignore context. Do you really think His crucifixion would draw space dust to himself?
     
  12. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    You know John 3:19-21 could mean that even ones evil deeds also, which it says all of all men's or man's, as in "every mans deeds" are wicked or evil in his sight, or are as filthy rags, even the ones we might consider or call good ones by good men... but the one "not hating the light" comes to the light, so that his deeds might be reproved, and he might change them possibly, or God could change them for him, or they could change them together, and to show, that even those deeds though, were all wrought in the will of God the Father ultimately, in the end...

    God Bless!
     
  13. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    I just proved that He did not say I will draw all “peoples” or types of people to Himself. Again, as always, you resort to inferring the most ridiculous conclusions from my statements, which is fine. Anyone reading with any sense of discernment will quickly see your motives.
     
  14. Hammster

    Hammster 2019 Dundie Award Winner Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    There has to have been a point to bringing it up. Since you didn’t mention it, I had to conclude that you meant He draws everything to Himself. Otherwise, it looks like you are just nitpicking for no reason, and I hope that’s not the case.
     
  15. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    I’m sorry I thought it was obvious that the discussion was about whether Jesus draws all men or all types of men to Him. I never assumed anyone would think that I was inferring that Jesus would literally draw all (everything) to Him including cat hair, leaves, dust, penguins, Neptune, etc. I just never contemplated that anyone would assume such a thing.
     
  16. Hammster

    Hammster 2019 Dundie Award Winner Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    There’s nothing in your statement to clarify what your point was. All you said was that people wasn’t in the translation.
     
  17. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    So you affirm the belief that man has complete autonomy over himself, and God's sovereignty thus takes a back seat to it? Your thoughts on Proverbs 16:9 and 20:24 please.

    And not to be circular, but your premise seems to contradict Ezekiel 36, Jeremiah 31, 1 John 3:6-9, and 1 John 5:18.
     
  18. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    As I said the Holy Spirit guides us He does not take over control. If He did then we would never sin and if we were to sin under His control He would be the author of our sin.
     
  19. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    I mean...the Scripture is pretty clear....
     
  20. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    John 15:1-10 is crystal clear that a person who is in Christ can lose their salvation. As I’ve said before according to Calvin a person cannot come to Christ unless He is elected by God and God’s elect cannot lose salvation. So we have a contradiction here.
     
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