God loves everyone?

[Hammster]

Would a forced or preprogrammed love be of any value to God? Could it even be called genuine love?

No. But a new heart will love freely.

 

[renniks]

Your scenario was a house fire. And the rescuer has the ability to save everyone. If I understand your answer, the rescuer only saved those who love him.

Are you wanting to stick with that?

The original scenario is that if he saves all, that is obviously more merciful than helping only some. Of course, it's an incomplete scenario, because the person has to be willing to accept help and to reach for help. He only saves those who were humble enough to ask for salvation.
In the end, there are only those who say "Thy will be done." and those to who God says "Thy will be done." CS Lewis said something along those lines.

 

[Strong in Him]

Judas may have sincerely regretted his actions, but his committing suicide as if all was lost demonstrated his ignorance of Christ, his lack of faith in Christ or God, his willingness to take matters in his own hands instead of placing himself in Gods capable Hand.

He regretted, and may have had sorrow for his sin, but he didn't go all the way and go back to God in repentance and sorrow and ask forgiveness trusting in His mercy - even after knowing Christ.

To do that takes laying down your pride, and fully admitting and recognising what you are.. in Judas' last and final moments, he couldn't do it.

I don't entirely agree; taking your own life is an act of despair and I would say, shows that Judas recognised what he had done. And by the way, no one knows about his final moments; what he might have said to God as he was hanging.
But I don't want to divert the thread onto Judas. My observation was simply that someone mentioned Peter repenting, yet nowhere do we read that he did.
Though you have sort of proved my point; mention Judas, and it will be stated that he never repented - yet we aren't told that Peter did either.

 

[renniks]

Judas may have sincerely regretted his actions, but his committing suicide as if all was lost demonstrated his ignorance of Christ, his lack of faith in Christ or God, his willingness to take matters in his own hands instead of placing himself in Gods capable Hand.

He regretted, and may have had sorrow for his sin, but he didn't go all the way and go back to God in repentance and sorrow and ask forgiveness trusting in His mercy - even after knowing Christ.

To do that takes laying down your pride, and fully admitting and recognising what you are.. in Judas' last and final moments, he couldn't do it.

None of which means Judas was predestined for damnation. Really, if you take Calvinism to it's logical conclusion, God would have been controlling Satan and making him control Judas, so it's all just a puppet show.

 

[Hammster]

The original scenario is that if he saves all, that is obviously more merciful than helping only some. Of course, it's an incomplete scenario, because the person has to be willing to accept help and to reach for help. He only saves those who were humble enough to ask for salvation.
In the end, there are only those who say "Thy will be done." and those to who God says "Thy will be done." CS Lewis said something along those lines.

If I have the means to save everyone from a house fire and only pick one to save, even if they were foolish and started the fire themselves, I am not more merciful to one than to the others?

It’s a fire. People will die if you don’t save them. You have the ability, even if you have to drag them out. Are you saying you’d let some die if they were unwilling to accept help?

 

[renniks]

No. But a new heart will love freely.

There is no doing anything "freely" in Calvinism. It's all pre programmed. It's like everything you do is just fizz in the bottle and God is not just shaking the bottle, he is making each molecule move in a certain way, so that choice really has no bearing whatsoever.

 

[renniks]

If I have the means to save everyone from a house fire and only pick one to save, even if they were foolish and started the fire themselves, I am not more merciful to one than to the others?

It’s a fire. People will die if you don’t save them. You have the ability, even if you have to drag them out. Are you saying you’d let some die if they were unwilling to accept help?

I already said it's an incomplete scenario. More like, they could only be helped if they reached out to me and they refuse to even lift an arm.

 

[A_Thinker]

If I have the means to save everyone from a house fire and only pick one to save, even if they were foolish and started the fire themselves, I am not more merciful to one than to the others?

It’s a fire. People will die if you don’t save them. You have the ability, even if you have to drag them out. Are you saying you’d let some die if they were unwilling to accept help?

God calls us to choose ...

Deuteronomy 30

19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

 

[BNR32FAN]

Actually, that's interesting now I come to think about it - because nowhere do we read that Peter repented, or told the Lord that he was sorry.

Yes, he wept bitterly, and would not have done that were he not sorry - but when I've written, on here, that Judas repented because he threw the money back, said he had betrayed an innocent man and then took his life; some have insisted that was not repentance.

Peter’s actions afterwards were evidence of his repentance.

 

[98cwitr]

Do you believe? Do you not sin?

First question is a deep one: Believe in the existence of God? Believe that He sent His son, Jesus to die and to be raised from the dead? Yes and yes. The question you should be asking is whether I am reborn in Spirit...if I am a new creation (John 3). Has my heart of stone been removed and have I been given a heart of flesh that obeys God's law and respects His decrees (Ezekiel 36; Jeremiah 31)?

The 2nd question is paramount to the first, because it is answered by answering the first one; but to answer you, out of respect, directly: Yes, I still sin, but because of that I am assured of my need to be reborn. I have the faith, but it is the rebirth and removal of my stone heart that is effectual. Make sense?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Okay. Do you hold to Pelagianism?

No I don’t but that doesn’t mean that Calvin’s ideas of total depravity and predestination are correct.

 

[98cwitr]

God calls us to choose ...

Deuteronomy 30

19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Now put that in context of verses 1-8 of Deut 30:

Also, see John 15:16

 

[BNR32FAN]

I don't entirely agree; taking your own life is an act of despair and I would say, shows that Judas recognised what he had done. And by the way, no one knows about his final moments; what he might have said to God as he was hanging.
But I don't want to divert the thread onto Judas. My observation was simply that someone mentioned Peter repenting, yet nowhere do we read that he did.
Though you have sort of proved my point; mention Judas, and it will be stated that he never repented - yet we aren't told that Peter did either.

Does this reflect Peter’s actions after denying Christ 3 times?
repent

G3340

Lemma:

μετανοέω

Transliteration:

metanoéō

Description:

1) to change one's mind, i.e. to repent

2) to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins"Repentance (metanoia, 'change of mind') involves a turning with contrition from sin to God; the repentant sinner is in the proper condition to accept the divine forgiveness." (F. F. Bruce. The Acts of the Apostles [Greek Text Commentary], London: Tyndale, 1952, p. 97.)

 

[BNR32FAN]

First question is a deep one: Believe in the existence of God? Believe that He sent His son, Jesus to die and to be raised from the dead? Yes and yes. The question you should be asking is whether I am reborn in Spirit...if I am a new creation (John 3). Has my heart of stone been removed and have I been given a heart of flesh that obeys God's law and respects His decrees (Ezekiel 36; Jeremiah 31)?

The 2nd question is paramount to the first, because it is answered by answering the first one; but to answer you, out of respect, directly: Yes, I still sin, but because of that I am assured of my need to be reborn. I have the faith, but it is the rebirth and removal of my stone heart that is effectual. Make sense?

Ok with that being said let’s apply that to the original question.

All Christians still sin and yet they believe. So I don’t understand how our sinful nature can keep someone from believing.

We’re you a sinner when you heard the gospel? We’re you a sinner when you first believed? Did your sinful nature keep you from believing or did it force you to recognize that you are in need of a Savior?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Now put that in context of verses 1-8 of Deut 30:

Also, see John 15:16

John 15:16 Jesus is telling them He chose them for a specific task which is to bear fruit. If you read John 15:1-10 in its proper context you will see that Jesus was warning His faithful 11 apostles of the consequences of failing to abide in Him. The consequences which result in loss of salvation. John 15:16 Jesus is basically telling them I have chosen you to do a job so do it, much like an employer might say to an employee.

 

[Hammster]

There is no doing anything "freely" in Calvinism. It's all pre programmed. It's like everything you do is just fizz in the bottle and God is not just shaking the bottle, he is making each molecule move in a certain way, so that choice really has no bearing whatsoever.

Well, thanks for demonstrating your ignorance of Reformed Theology.

 

[Hammster]

I already said it's an incomplete scenario. More like, they could only be helped if they reached out to me and they refuse to even lift an arm.

So it’s incomplete for you, but you used it for a gotcha moment for me.

That’s a little disingenuous, don’t you think?

 

[Hammster]

God calls us to choose ...

Deuteronomy 30

19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

That doesn’t address the scenario presented to me.

 

[Hammster]

No I don’t but that doesn’t mean that Calvin’s ideas of total depravity and predestination are correct.

Do you believe that man has a natural ability to believe apart from the work of the Spirit? If no, then what part does the Spirit play in conversion?

 

[Hazelelponi]

I don't entirely agree; taking your own life is an act of despair and I would say, shows that Judas recognised what he had done. And by the way, no one knows about his final moments; what he might have said to God as he was hanging.
But I don't want to divert the thread onto Judas. My observation was simply that someone mentioned Peter repenting, yet nowhere do we read that he did.
Though you have sort of proved my point; mention Judas, and it will be stated that he never repented - yet we aren't told that Peter did either.

In my opinion if your in despair so that you take your life you never actually knew God..

sorry doesn't cut it, faith is necessary.