God loves everyone?

A_Thinker

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 23, 2004
11,911
9,064
Midwest
✟931,284.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
A feral cat had somehow found a way in and ended up in our basement in the dead of winter. She was cold and through an old fireplace she managed to make her way inside, but couldn't find her way back out.

It was dark, no light at all, and no food. eventually she found herself so hungry that her hunger overcame her fear of us, and one night when I was making salmon for dinner she began crying and meowing for help.

It took us some time, but we finally figured out the noise was coming from inside the house, from the basement door... and we stood back while my husband opened the basement door, not quite knowing what to expect..

When we opened the door she was afraid, and ran back to the darkness of the basement.. but I put some salmon on a plate and coaxed her into the main part of the house where we live..

She ate until she was full, she was a starved scrawny thing near death, and then found a place in a quiet corner and went to sleep after some time..

We went to walmart and got a litter box and some cat food and a few toys and random other things she would need, and she's lived with us ever since.

We were her first experience with humans, but she seemed at first like this was heaven. There was light up here, and warmth, and food in plenty, and people who loved her.

She wouldn't go outside for months because she seemed afraid we may not allow her back if she went to play, although in time that dissipated..

Here's the thing.. she didn't want to come up into the house at first. She'd been down there long enough we could see every bone in her body. It was a miracle she was even alive still..

We had to entice her, to get her into the house, but once she had the experience of it, of how wonderful it truly is, we couldn't get her back out.. she would literally hide under the bed at the very suggestion of her leaving to go out and play for a long time.

When God says here I Am, this I have for you is good, people don't want to leave God's presence once its been experienced - you couldn't force them out if you tried.

There are two calls that are experienced. 1) is the external call of the Gospel preached by human beings and 2) is the internal, effectual call of God which we see in places like Romans 8:30

The first call can be refused or misunderstood or, or, or as it's not a full experience of God, but God's internal effectual call is certain..

But there's no force involved, it's the starving man being given a plate of food they didn't know existed which, once tasted there's no force needed at all..

Just because God chooses doesn't mean the people he chose haven't also chosen Him in return. We love because He first loved us..

Jesus was a Rabbi, and it was typical of Rabbis and disciples in His day for prospective students to ask to disciple with a teacher of the law and then be told yes by the Rabbi if there was space.

A Rabbi going out and choosing his disciples was unheard of, yet Jesus did so. And its pointed out specifically more than once - You did not choose me, I chose you. John 15:16..

This is an important theme of the scriptures. God chooses in His perfect sovereignty, according to His good pleasure.

Why? Because God's children are children of the Spirit not children of the flesh, and this can only be proven out by God doing the choosing - because anything done in the flesh is of the flesh and God's promises must stand, His children are the children of promise therefore, not of works but of Him who calls.

God's people aren't forced into anything. What disciple of Jesus said man I'm tired of this slavery to discipleship.. ? None. They were happy to disciple.. It wasn't always easy, but if you asked any if they'd trade it for gold I'm certain they would laugh at you..
I think that your illustration is a good one ... perhaps one which demonstrates what Jesus said in John 3:19-21

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

That cat's world was the one from which she fled ... into the warmth of your home. She was further encouraged to put her trust in you for her provision ... by your offering of food ... and peace. And she eventually progressed to the point where she would not leave you ... under any circumstances.

On the contrary, every creature from the wild is not so similarly natured. Some might be attracted by warmth and provision and love, ... only to determine that their preference is for the wild. To attempt to bring them in would be met by consistent resistance, until you finally would resolve to allow them to go their way ...
 
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
22,113
7,243
Dallas
✟873,884.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
A feral cat had somehow found a way in and ended up in our basement in the dead of winter. She was cold and through an old fireplace she managed to make her way inside, but couldn't find her way back out.

It was dark, no light at all, and no food. eventually she found herself so hungry that her hunger overcame her fear of us, and one night when I was making salmon for dinner she began crying and meowing for help.

It took us some time, but we finally figured out the noise was coming from inside the house, from the basement door... and we stood back while my husband opened the basement door, not quite knowing what to expect..

When we opened the door she was afraid, and ran back to the darkness of the basement.. but I put some salmon on a plate and coaxed her into the main part of the house where we live..

She ate until she was full, she was a starved scrawny thing near death, and then found a place in a quiet corner and went to sleep after some time..

We went to walmart and got a litter box and some cat food and a few toys and random other things she would need, and she's lived with us ever since.

We were her first experience with humans, but she seemed at first like this was heaven. There was light up here, and warmth, and food in plenty, and people who loved her.

She wouldn't go outside for months because she seemed afraid we may not allow her back if she went to play, although in time that dissipated..

Here's the thing.. she didn't want to come up into the house at first. She'd been down there long enough we could see every bone in her body. It was a miracle she was even alive still..

We had to entice her, to get her into the house, but once she had the experience of it, of how wonderful it truly is, we couldn't get her back out.. she would literally hide under the bed at the very suggestion of her leaving to go out and play for a long time.

When God says here I Am, this I have for you is good, people don't want to leave God's presence once its been experienced - you couldn't force them out if you tried.

There are two calls that are experienced. 1) is the external call of the Gospel preached by human beings and 2) is the internal, effectual call of God which we see in places like Romans 8:30

The first call can be refused or misunderstood or, or, or as it's not a full experience of God, but God's internal effectual call is certain..

But there's no force involved, it's the starving man being given a plate of food they didn't know existed which, once tasted there's no force needed at all..

Just because God chooses doesn't mean the people he chose haven't also chosen Him in return. We love because He first loved us..

Jesus was a Rabbi, and it was typical of Rabbis and disciples in His day for prospective students to ask to disciple with a teacher of the law and then be told yes by the Rabbi if there was space.

A Rabbi going out and choosing his disciples was unheard of, yet Jesus did so. And its pointed out specifically more than once - You did not choose me, I chose you. John 15:16..

This is an important theme of the scriptures. God chooses in His perfect sovereignty, according to His good pleasure.

Why? Because God's children are children of the Spirit not children of the flesh, and this can only be proven out by God doing the choosing - because anything done in the flesh is of the flesh and God's promises must stand, His children are the children of promise therefore, not of works but of Him who calls.

God's people aren't forced into anything. What disciple of Jesus said man I'm tired of this slavery to discipleship.. ? None. They were happy to disciple.. It wasn't always easy, but if you asked any if they'd trade it for gold I'm certain they would laugh at you..

Cats are evil!! I tried to baptize mine and it tried to kill me. I was like “In the name of The Father, and of The Son, and of the HOLY MOLY!! REEEERRRRR!!!
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Hazelelponi
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
22,113
7,243
Dallas
✟873,884.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
A feral cat had somehow found a way in and ended up in our basement in the dead of winter. She was cold and through an old fireplace she managed to make her way inside, but couldn't find her way back out.

It was dark, no light at all, and no food. eventually she found herself so hungry that her hunger overcame her fear of us, and one night when I was making salmon for dinner she began crying and meowing for help.

It took us some time, but we finally figured out the noise was coming from inside the house, from the basement door... and we stood back while my husband opened the basement door, not quite knowing what to expect..

When we opened the door she was afraid, and ran back to the darkness of the basement.. but I put some salmon on a plate and coaxed her into the main part of the house where we live..

She ate until she was full, she was a starved scrawny thing near death, and then found a place in a quiet corner and went to sleep after some time..

We went to walmart and got a litter box and some cat food and a few toys and random other things she would need, and she's lived with us ever since.

We were her first experience with humans, but she seemed at first like this was heaven. There was light up here, and warmth, and food in plenty, and people who loved her.

She wouldn't go outside for months because she seemed afraid we may not allow her back if she went to play, although in time that dissipated..

Here's the thing.. she didn't want to come up into the house at first. She'd been down there long enough we could see every bone in her body. It was a miracle she was even alive still..

We had to entice her, to get her into the house, but once she had the experience of it, of how wonderful it truly is, we couldn't get her back out.. she would literally hide under the bed at the very suggestion of her leaving to go out and play for a long time.

When God says here I Am, this I have for you is good, people don't want to leave God's presence once its been experienced - you couldn't force them out if you tried.

There are two calls that are experienced. 1) is the external call of the Gospel preached by human beings and 2) is the internal, effectual call of God which we see in places like Romans 8:30

The first call can be refused or misunderstood or, or, or as it's not a full experience of God, but God's internal effectual call is certain..

But there's no force involved, it's the starving man being given a plate of food they didn't know existed which, once tasted there's no force needed at all..

Just because God chooses doesn't mean the people he chose haven't also chosen Him in return. We love because He first loved us..

Jesus was a Rabbi, and it was typical of Rabbis and disciples in His day for prospective students to ask to disciple with a teacher of the law and then be told yes by the Rabbi if there was space.

A Rabbi going out and choosing his disciples was unheard of, yet Jesus did so. And its pointed out specifically more than once - You did not choose me, I chose you. John 15:16..

This is an important theme of the scriptures. God chooses in His perfect sovereignty, according to His good pleasure.

Why? Because God's children are children of the Spirit not children of the flesh, and this can only be proven out by God doing the choosing - because anything done in the flesh is of the flesh and God's promises must stand, His children are the children of promise therefore, not of works but of Him who calls.

God's people aren't forced into anything. What disciple of Jesus said man I'm tired of this slavery to discipleship.. ? None. They were happy to disciple.. It wasn't always easy, but if you asked any if they'd trade it for gold I'm certain they would laugh at you..

In this analogy you made the offer the and cat chose to accept it and was grateful. This symbolizes a synergistic relationship not a predestined relationship.
 
Upvote 0

A_Thinker

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 23, 2004
11,911
9,064
Midwest
✟931,284.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Except for Judas ...
I'm saying that the heart of Peter ... was bent toward repentance of his betrayal ...

John 21

1 Later, Jesus appeared again to the disciples beside the Sea of Galilee. This is how it happened. 2 Several of the disciples were there—Simon Peter, Thomas (nicknamed the Twin), Nathanael from Cana in Galilee, the sons of Zebedee, and two other disciples.

3 Simon Peter said, “I’m going fishing.”

“We’ll come, too,” they all said. So they went out in the boat, but they caught nothing all night.

4 At dawn Jesus was standing on the beach, but the disciples couldn’t see who he was. 5 He called out, “Fellows, have you caught any fish?”

“No,” they replied.

6 Then he said, “Throw out your net on the right-hand side of the boat, and you’ll get some!” So they did, and they couldn’t haul in the net because there were so many fish in it.

7 Then the disciple Jesus loved said to Peter, “It’s the Lord!” When Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put on his tunic (for he had stripped for work), jumped into the water, and headed to shore.
 
Upvote 0

Hazelelponi

I'm back
Supporter
Jun 25, 2018
9,210
8,688
55
USA
✟676,606.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
In this analogy you made the offer the and cat chose to accept it and was grateful. This symbolizes a synergistic relationship not a predestined relationship.

Not synergistic when I had to put forth all the effort to convince her to begin with..
 
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
22,113
7,243
Dallas
✟873,884.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
John 17:12

Judas perished because he never believed. He had been stealing money from the treasury. He perished by his own choice, not because God picked him saying I’ll kill this one. God foresaw the outcome and made it a part of His plan.

“What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:22‬ ‭NASB‬‬
 
  • Agree
Reactions: A_Thinker
Upvote 0

A_Thinker

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 23, 2004
11,911
9,064
Midwest
✟931,284.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Wait for it... I’m sure it’s coming... someone will surely say Judas wasn’t really chosen.
Well ... scripture does say that Jesus knew him to be a devil.

Can a devil be chosen ... and, if so, for what purpose ?

1 Kings 22:19-23

Then Micaiah said, ...

'Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by, on His right hand and on His left.

And the LORD said, ‘Who will persuade Ahab to go up, that he may fall at Ramoth Gilead?’ So one spoke in this manner, and another spoke in that manner.

Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, and said, ‘I will persuade him.’

The LORD said to him, ‘In what way?’

So he said, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’

And the LORD said, ‘You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.’

Therefore look! The LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these prophets of yours, and the LORD has declared disaster against you.”
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

A_Thinker

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 23, 2004
11,911
9,064
Midwest
✟931,284.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The cat still had to make the choice to accept your offer.
The cat was drawn ...

John 12

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Hazelelponi
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
22,113
7,243
Dallas
✟873,884.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Well ... scripture does say that Jesus knew him to be a devil.

Can a devil be chosen ... and, if so, for what purpose ?

1 Kings 22:19-23

Then Micaiah said, ...

'Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by, on His right hand and on His left.

And the LORD said, ‘Who will persuade Ahab to go up, that he may fall at Ramoth Gilead?’ So one spoke in this manner, and another spoke in that manner.

Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, and said, ‘I will persuade him.’

The LORD said to him, ‘In what way?’

So he said, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’

And the LORD said, ‘You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.’

Therefore look! The LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these prophets of yours, and the LORD has declared disaster against you.”

“You shall speak to him, saying, 'Thus says the LORD, "Have you murdered and also taken possession?"' And you shall speak to him, saying, 'Thus says the LORD, "In the place where the dogs licked up the blood of Naboth the dogs will lick up your blood, even yours."'" Ahab said to Elijah, "Have you found me, O my enemy?" And he answered, "I have found you, because you have sold yourself to do evil in the sight of the LORD. Behold, I will bring evil upon you, and will utterly sweep you away, and will cut off from Ahab every male, both bond and free in Israel; and I will make your house like the house of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, and like the house of Baasha the son of Ahijah, because of the provocation with which you have provoked Me to anger, and because you have made Israel sin.”
‭‭1 Kings‬ ‭21:19-22‬ ‭NASB‬‬
 
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
22,113
7,243
Dallas
✟873,884.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The cat was drawn ...

John 12

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Amen Jesus will draw all men to Himself not only those who receive salvation but all men.
 
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
22,113
7,243
Dallas
✟873,884.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The cat was drawn ...

John 12

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Did God not endure much patience with Ahab?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,767
7,913
NW England
✟1,041,298.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Peter believed and yet he denied Jesus 3 times. Would he have been saved if he had not repented?

Actually, that's interesting now I come to think about it - because nowhere do we read that Peter repented, or told the Lord that he was sorry.

Yes, he wept bitterly, and would not have done that were he not sorry - but when I've written, on here, that Judas repented because he threw the money back, said he had betrayed an innocent man and then took his life; some have insisted that was not repentance.
 
Upvote 0

Hazelelponi

I'm back
Supporter
Jun 25, 2018
9,210
8,688
55
USA
✟676,606.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Actually, that's interesting now I come to think about it - because nowhere do we read that Peter repented, or told the Lord that he was sorry.

Yes, he wept bitterly, and would not have done that were he not sorry - but when I've written, on here, that Judas repented because he threw the money back, said he had betrayed an innocent man and then took his life; some have insisted that was not repentance.

Judas may have sincerely regretted his actions, but his committing suicide as if all was lost demonstrated his ignorance of Christ, his lack of faith in Christ or God, his willingness to take matters in his own hands instead of placing himself in Gods capable Hand.

He regretted, and may have had sorrow for his sin, but he didn't go all the way and go back to God in repentance and sorrow and ask forgiveness trusting in His mercy - even after knowing Christ.

To do that takes laying down your pride, and fully admitting and recognising what you are.. in Judas' last and final moments, he couldn't do it.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,179
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,556.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
All Christians still sin and yet they believe. So I don’t understand how our sinful nature can keep someone from believing.
Okay. Do you hold to Pelagianism?
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,179
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,556.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
God apparently desires real love more than forced obedience. He could save every one by force, but would that be loving?

Your scenario was a house fire. And the rescuer has the ability to save everyone. If I understand your answer, the rescuer only saved those who love him.

Are you wanting to stick with that?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums