Null/Voided Out

[mlepfitjw]

Why no streets of gold?

Here's a description of the New Jerusalem where the streets of gold idea comes from. Actually only one street.

Revelation 21:21
The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass.

This reminds me of a joke.

A rich man made a deal with God that he could bring a suitcase with him when he entered the afterlife. The day came for the man to die and there he was on his deathbed gripping the suitcase he had packed to go with him.

When he suddenly arrived at the pearly gates he was amazed to see that his suitcase was with him as God had promised. The angel at the gate, somewhat surprised, asked to see what he was bringing in. In the hopes of being ahead of everyone else financially, the man had loaded the suitcase with valuable gold bars. So, he was beaming when he showed the angel his luggage.

The angel took one look and said, "Really? You could have brought anything with you. Why did you bring pavement?"

@Agallagher

That joke was really silly Steven. You asked why not street’s offer Gold? If all we looking forward to is what is stated in the Bible, mansions, new earth, streets of gold. The perception of what to expect would seem of. Some people believe in a literal new earth with mankind and gold streets oh what a life, we fly and ride one clouds.

don’t you just wanna be close to God and the warmth of his love instead? Allowed to see your loved ones? Maybe help others outside the kingdom of God, or ask to God to go help some like this??

no streets of gold could ever buy my affection.

the reason there is no streets of gold in my view is because the kingdom is spiritual, the earth is the earth which can be seen in a new way looking through spiritual eyes.

Just like I mentioned Jesus perspective on having love for all people and making the choice to die for them, cause he didn’t have to.

this is my logic.

Interesting thought just occurred to me. I am of the opinion that Revelation is the closing of the Old Covenant as found in the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. At the close of this book, we see the description of the New Jerusalem. For many centuries, literalists have taken this to mean that there are actually paved streets of gold in the next age.

But....knowing that Revelation is filled with apocalyptic imagery, I have to wonder this:

The gates of of the city were twelve pearls. Could it be (I'm just supposing here) that the "12 pearls" are the 12 Apostles who went to the farthest corners of the known world to open the way to heaven. After all, did not Jesus Himself speak of the "Pearl of Great Price" for which a man, discovering it, would sell all he owned to obtain it? Surely the Lord was not speaking about a real pearl from a real oyster. We have been taught that this pearl is the Gospel Message, the Good News of God's love in Christ and His death to set us free from death. A gate is an entry way into something, so in this symbolic sense, the 12 gates are the Apostles and the pearl which constitutes them is the Good News.

Could it be that the main street, the "street paved with gold" is the Christian life, the one golden way to enter into age-lasting life? A street leads somewhere. The Golden Street leads to age-lasting life as we walk in it and stay in it.

Just thinking out loud.

very cool insight here lightoftheaat.
Follow the yellow brick road to go see the wizard of oz — type analogy but we following the golden brick road that Jesus Christ laid being the light of all mankind ayyy?


@Religiot God bless may the grace of the lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit

15Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world— the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life— is not from the Father but from the world. 17The world is passing away, along with its desires; but whoever does the will of God remains forever.…

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Love is only good, when ordinate.
Hate is only bad, when inordinate.

But God's love is unfathomable. That's the gift of life in the work of the cross. In fact, that's the locus of His eternal victory and our eternal assurance, is it not?

For His anger is but for a moment, His favor is for a lifetime;
His mercy endureth forever. It boasteth over judgment.
His thoughts are higher than ours.

And so on and so forth-eth.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Not from Jesus' perspective. . .you'll have to take up "fire" with him. . .unless you just don't believe him in Mt 5:22, 18:8, 9, 25:41; Mk 9:43, 48.

Ah, the oracle speaketh.

Every time Jesus says the magic word 'Gehenna', do you instantly conjure up a grizzly medieval tableau, replete with red-hot iron maidens and inquisitorial implements?

That's just so much toxic baggage sister.

If calling someone 'Raca!' in your heart earns you eternity in hellfire, then I'll see you there along with everyone else. Why do you dismiss context, is it the indoctrination? He's talking about reconciliation, it can be done the easy way (now in this life by kissing and making up) or the hard way (by purging it from your vain and bitter heart in the next life).

Could say the same for Mt 18:8, our Lord is telling us to take extreme measures to banish sin from our lives, because it'll be harder to purge a lifetime of sin in the next life.

It's the same kind of teaching we hear again and again, as in 'saved, but as through fire', 'pay the uttermost farthing' and so on. If you build a false identity castle on a foundation of sand, great will be its downfall.

See, these teachings aren't Jesus engaging in glorified 'carrot-and-stick' work. To read them thus really does grave injustice to their grace, beauty and profound simplicity. That's Gospel Truth sister, it's good news for all mankind, just as the angel foretold.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

This reminds me of a joke.

A rich man made a deal with God that he could bring a suitcase with him when he entered the afterlife. The day came for the man to die and there he was on his deathbed gripping the suitcase he had packed to go with him.

When he suddenly arrived at the pearly gates he was amazed to see that his suitcase was with him as God had promised. The angel at the gate, somewhat surprised, asked to see what he was bringing in. In the hopes of being ahead of everyone else financially, the man had loaded the suitcase with valuable gold bars. So, he was beaming when he showed the angel his luggage.

The angel took one look and said, "Really? You could have brought anything with you. Why did you bring pavement?"

@Agallagher

Gold is the vault of Heaven's asphalt.

 

[Saint Steven]

That joke was really silly Steven. You asked why not street’s offer Gold? If all we looking forward to is what is stated in the Bible, mansions, new earth, streets of gold. The perception of what to expect would seem of. Some people believe in a literal new earth with mankind and gold streets oh what a life, we fly and ride one clouds.

don’t you just wanna be close to God and the warmth of his love instead? Allowed to see your loved ones? Maybe help others outside the kingdom of God, or ask to God to go help some like this??

no streets of gold could ever buy my affection.

the reason there is no streets of gold in my view is because the kingdom is spiritual, the earth is the earth which can be seen in a new way looking through spiritual eyes.

Just like I mentioned Jesus perspective on having love for all people and making the choice to die for them, cause he didn’t have to.

Yes, thanks for presenting your thoughts.

I still see lots of physical language in reference to our afterlife with God. One example below speaks of "Father’s house" and "rooms" and "a place" that is prepared for us. Jesus promises to "come back" (here?) and take us to be with him "where" he is. It could all be symbolic language I suppose. Although he seems to be referencing something already known about the afterlife in Jewish thought. ("if that were not so")

John 14:1-3
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

 

[Saint Steven]

Gold is the vault of Heaven's asphalt.

Right. The thing we hold in highest regard here is a commodity of the highway department in heaven, delivered by the truckload to be walked and driven on. Quite the economy reversal.

 

[mlepfitjw]

Yes, thanks for presenting your thoughts.

I still see lots of physical language in reference to our afterlife with God. One example below speaks of "Father’s house" and "rooms" and "a place" that is prepared for us. Jesus promises to "come back" (here?) and take us to be with him "where" he is. It could all be symbolic language I suppose. Although he seems to be referencing something already known about the afterlife in Jewish thought. ("if that were not so")

John 14:1-3
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

someone presented to me that the mansions are your inhabitational spiritual body. Think about the home you live in for example.

but this new home will be that new body, anyway thank you for sharing your thoughts as well.

I’m more concerned about being near God and his light and warmth than anything else that could be given... he is so good to us.

God bless and have a good day.

 

[Clare73]

Ah, the oracle speaketh.

Every time Jesus says the magic word 'Gehenna', do you instantly conjure up a grizzly medieval tableau, replete with red-hot iron maidens and inquisitorial implements?

That's just so much toxic baggage sister.

If calling someone 'Raca!' in your heart earns you eternity in hellfire, then I'll see you there along with everyone else. Why do you dismiss context, is it the indoctrination? He's talking about reconciliation, it can be done the easy way (now in this life by kissing and making up) or the hard way (by purging it from your vain and bitter heart in the next life).

Could say the same for Mt 18:8, our Lord is telling us to take extreme measures to banish sin from our lives, because it'll be harder to purge a lifetime of sin in the next life.

It's the same kind of teaching we hear again and again, as in 'saved, but as through fire', 'pay the uttermost farthing' and so on. If you build a false identity castle on a foundation of sand, great will be its downfall.

See, these teachings aren't Jesus engaging in glorified 'carrot-and-stick' work. To read them thus really does grave injustice to their grace, beauty and profound simplicity. That's Gospel Truth sister, it's good news for all mankind, just as the angel foretold.

Translate: you just don't believe the NT Word of God.

That works for me.

Perhaps you and Steve should get together and write your own Bible.
.

 

[Religiot]

But God's love is unfathomable. That's the gift of life in the work of the cross. In fact, that's the locus of His eternal victory and our eternal assurance, is it not?

For His anger is but for a moment, His favor is for a lifetime;
His mercy endureth forever. It boasteth over judgment.
His thoughts are higher than ours.

And so on and so forth-eth.

All that you said, except for the mock at the end, is to those whom He is saving.

It is not that God has great love, but that He is love.
It is not that God has life, but that He is life.

He gave of Himself to us when He made us; not only did He give us life freely, but love also: what we do with what God gave us is up to us, because along with everything else, He also made us free to choose.

The greatest gift of all from God, is that He also gave us His firstbegotten Son: look at what we did to HIm.

Open your eyes and swallow your pride, and look.

 

[Uriah123]

That explains a lot about the psychology of it, a lot of people who focus on the wrath of God tend to seem terrified of something.

Ok.

 

[Saint Steven]

Perhaps you and Steve should get together and write your own Bible.

Here are a few I could recommend.

Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46

Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).

 

[Shrewd Manager]

All that you said, except for the mock at the end, is to those whom He is saving.

It is not that God has great love, but that He is love.
It is not that God has life, but that He is life.

He gave of Himself to us when He made us; not only did He give us life freely, but love also: what we do with what God gave us is up to us, because along with everything else, He also made us free to choose.

The greatest gift of all from God, is that He also gave us His firstbegotten Son: look at what we did to HIm.

Open your eyes and swallow your pride, and look.

So God is love, but not inordinate love? That what you're saying?

I think you may be worrying too much about sounding righteous and making a few little jibes as you go.

Don't worry, I've been there, the whited sepulchre routine. Hope we can share the faith that Jesus will free us from those sins and raise us above it.

 

[1213]

...
Why does destruction need to be an end in itself for you? Don't you see God's plan is so much greater than that?

To me this is about what Bible tells, not what I want or need.

 

[Saint Steven]

To me this is about what Bible tells, not what I want or need.

Fair enough. What do you make of this?

Matt 19:28
Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Acts 3:21
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

To me this is about what Bible tells, not what I want or need.

So the Bible doesn't give you what you want or need. What happened to all those promises of Christ to free the slaves and heal the lepers? Not applicable?

What you need is truth, and you're not going to find it in pseudo-paganism. God's truth is that He has the power to save all and He has emphatically promised and guaranteed that outcome. It's absolutely good and glorious. It's the only coherent outcome. You presume to shorten God's mighty right arm at your own peril.

 

[Hawkins]

Do you know why people say this God is the God of Wrath and Judgement?

What about God is spirit, joy, peace, forbearance, gentleness, forgiveness, merciful, loving?

Because the New Covenant in the end is about a judgment.

 

[Saint Steven]

So the Bible doesn't give you what you want or need. What happened to all those promises of Christ to free the slaves and heal the lepers? Not applicable?

What you need is truth, and you're not going to find it in pseudo-paganism. God's truth is that He has the power to save all and He has emphatically promised and guaranteed that outcome. It's absolutely good and glorious. It's the only coherent outcome. You presume to shorten God's mighty right arm at your own peril.

Reminds me of the other topic. "Would you be a Christian if there was no afterlife?" (from memory)

Most responded that they wouldn't. Indicating that they see no value in a relationship with God in the here and now. They are all just waiting around to go to heaven. I would say they are in for quite a shock when they are pointed to the hot tub instead. Say what?

 

[Saint Steven]

Because the New Covenant in the end is about a judgment.

No, the end is about reconciliation. (reconciled = past tense)

2 Corinthians 5:18-19
All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ
and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling
the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them.
And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

 

[Religiot]

So God is love, but not inordinate love? That what you're saying?

I think you may be worrying too much about sounding righteous and making a few little jibes as you go.

Don't worry, I've been there, the whited sepulchre routine. Hope we can share the faith that Jesus will free us from those sins and raise us above it.

Your response to what I said required for you to either ignore what I have spelled out, or purposefully twist it, but in either case, what you are doing is wrong.

God gave us love--which is from Him, only--we have taken what He gave us, and have missed used it... ...man, how did you not understand that, seriously: I gave numerous examples, including the Lord; how that God gave us the Lord, and look at what we did to Him.

Truly, I don't know how you said what you did... I'm astonished at how you've not understood a point I labored to make so redundantly. ...

 

[Clare73]

Here are a few I could recommend.

Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46

Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).

If they present no final judgment nor justice for unbelief in the person and work of Jesus Christ, then you have provided quite a list of heretical documents.