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God is not evil

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by CherubRam, Jun 30, 2019.

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  1. Jeshu

    Jeshu Bought by His Blood Supporter

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    The truth is that we have been given a freewill at birth, but for those bound by lies this free will is no longer present for then we are let to do evil instead of good. This is the trap humanity has fallen into the lies they believe distort the truth of God so much that people don't even know Him any more.

    In heaven our free will will be returned and then we will of our own freewill never choose untruth to rule again for its evil has given us first hand experience about the horrible bad life it brought into our being.

    Peace.
     
  2. 46AND2

    46AND2 Forty six and two are just ahead of me...

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    Well good, I'm glad it was a prime example of how I don't understand, because that's what I've been saying from the very beginning. I don't understand, because it makes no sense. And still doesn't, because all you are doing is preaching that it's our fault and not god's, without addressing my original point; instead resorting to calling it nonsense and ridiculous.

    That's ok, thanks for the attempt and time put in to your responses. I'm a firm believer in the idea that if my audience is honestly missing my point, it's because I'm not expressing my point coherently enough. Maybe some other time. Got a chem test tomorrow.
     
  3. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Evil in heaven is possible but not likely. And yes we will still have free will.
     
  4. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Eternal is a "beginning without an ending." As for omnipotent or omniscient; everything within reason.
     
  5. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Every little thing about us is recorded. In order for us to choose what God would want us to choose, He would have to take away our free will.
     
  6. Jeshu

    Jeshu Bought by His Blood Supporter

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    That is because you don't seem to consider the truth of the matter in any reasonable way. You think God has infinity possibilities creating and that therefore He created wrongly permitting evil into this creation. However this is not the truth as i know Him to be. Rather true love will always create people with a free will because to enslave them to love's will is not love but unloving in its application.

    There are no infinite possibilities open to God to Create His own image in physical form. Only the truth of His love could come up with Creation as it used to be in paradise the bible teaches.

    The truth is that God is very much contained by The truth of Himself when it comes to the physical reality He created. i know for certain that the truth is that 1 + 1 = 2 and to say it is 3 is blatant lie and will never be true - such is God's truth as well - its is always and completely true and cannot be altered.

    Therefore He cannot create outside of the truth of His being. Though because of His loves for us fallen people has allowed this situation to exist down here. Yet He will not create outside of Himself any lasting existence in untrue reality, but allow its existence only to let His loving truth make something good out of it. (In this way He can save His fallen offspring from certain destruction and still hand them The Kingdom at the end of suffering evil.)

    Because you can know just as well as me that the truth is that a life in lies has no lasting existence in the truth but comes to naught when the truth exposes its untruthfulness and denies untrue the right to further existence in the truth. When you find out that you believe a lie then you begin to take shape in the the truth who taught you that. And you will no longer believe the lie. Such is the truth of God.


    Hence fallen humanity is in dire trouble of extinction but luckily God in his loving truth wanted to do something about that to remedy that. Hence we have Jesus saving us from our untrue lives and rebuilding us into His truth where God's loving truth stands central and bad life dies while good life is resurrected.

    This shows me the true nature of God. For He loves His creatures even after they have fallen and moves heaven and earth making their dreams come true in Christ and with Christ.

    All glory to Him!
     
  7. 46AND2

    46AND2 Forty six and two are just ahead of me...

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    Trust me, I consider it in a very reasonable way. Because what YOU consider truth and what CherubRam considers truth, and what others consider truth is all different. You all have your own definitions. That's why I asked, at the very starting point, if God could create any universe he wanted. Now you say no. You could have led with that. The only reasonable way for me to consider truth is to investigate through all the angles I can.

    Ok, so now we can move on. We've established that omnipotence does not mean the ability to choose from multiple realities. Correct?

    So next, does omniscience mean that god had foreknowledge of all things about this creation of his?
     
  8. 46AND2

    46AND2 Forty six and two are just ahead of me...

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    Ok, now maybe we are getting somewhere...

    Well, that isn't the typical definition of eternal, but ok, we'll go with that.

    What would you consider unreasonable concerning omnipotence and omniscience? Because your definition leaves a whole lot of wiggle room. What I consider reasonable is likely much different than what you do.

    Can he lie? Cause that seems like a reasonable request of omnipotence to me.

    Can he experience sinful thoughts? temporal emotions? Are there things that we can do that he cannot?

    I mean...ultimately, if the answer these things causes limitations, he may be super powerful, but I couldn't consider it "everything within reason." But then one has to wonder what his limitations are.
     
  9. awitch

    awitch Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what lies you keep referring to. Unless you're suggesting Satan himself wrote the Bible, because that's all I needed to make my conclusion.
     
  10. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Here is His limitation: If it is not logical, then it is out of the question. God has no reason to lie about anything, He is above all of that.
     
  11. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Pagans have inserted their beliefs into the bible when they killed off the original Christians.

    Pope Gregory and Paganism.

    The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”

    Not only were the Congregations divided by Gnosticism, but enticed by philosophy and paganism also, and there were geographic divisions as well.

    Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.


    What were the Pagan beliefs harmonized with Christianity? The answer can be found by comparing Orthodox Judaism to Paganism.
     
  12. Jeshu

    Jeshu Bought by His Blood Supporter

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    No that is not correct. The truth has limitless realities which He can create, however His loving truth does not contain lies nor any loveless realities so lying realities He is not the author of, neither loveless ones. So this does put a different spin on your perspective of what omnipotence means. In God there is no darkness at all.

    Sure God knows precisely what each deed entails and where it leads to so from that perspective He is all knowing. He can also see what lives in peoples hearts in real time so from that perspective He is also all knowing and finally we know from Jesus that God knows our hearts so well that He can predict what choices we will make in the future. So yes indeed God is all knowing.

    He knew there would be a possibility that we would make the wrong choice. We have been given a free will after all. He also knew what this would entail - see His warning to humanity in paradise for example. However He also knew that in His love He would win His offspring back again and make everything well and be given the opportunity to excel His own loving truth which evil sin would stuff up so badly,. Yet He knew that ultimately His loving truth would be resurrected into an even more glorious majesty than He carried before and that hope gave Him the endurance to leave sin unpunished and suffer the free will of His wayward children.

    So in His love He created humanity fully aware of the risks, for He wanted to share His goodness with as much life as possible and because He loved us enough to give untrue and sinful life form being in His loving truth even though we were not truthfully His offspring any more in their untruthful realities. and we would betrayl and murder Him countless times.

    Such truly is the miracle of His love.That He knew whatever way we would choose He would be able to make something glorious out of it for all involved.

    Does this mean that God conceived evil? For be it from true. He never willed it. Stickily forbade it. Rather He and all His own have always suffered it. He has always told us not to lie and not to be evil for He doesn't lie and He doesn't do evil and He wants us to have life in His loving truth and not existence in harmful lies which hurt, pervert and kill true life. Such bad life He for knew would cause Him and His own enormous suffering. This truth has been clearly demonstrated by His Son Jesus and His agonising death on the cross because of humanities loveless untrue choices.

    God is more often the the victim of our choices rather than our choice that is what has gone wrong in His otherwise awesome creation. We choose to ignore His love and follow the lies all around cutting Him off from our existence and dying to His good life.

    So no the God of Christianity is not the god you make Him out to be. Rather than being guilty of any crime He is proven to be completely innocent of our choices and unbelievable gracious that He would make something good come out of our wilful acts of rebellion. Lets praise His holy name and repent of all untrue and loveless lies dwelling with in us and submit to His loving truth.

    Peace.
     
  13. Jeshu

    Jeshu Bought by His Blood Supporter

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    It means that God is the truth of all goodness and suffers all badness. He is also the truth of the lies we believe about God, ourselves and others. The very lies which killed His loving truth out of us and created bad life there instead.

    Yet the truth tells us that He will keep us fully accountable for that. So if the truth is that you lost love, kindness, patience, caring, sharing, compassionate or any other truthfully good inner realities, because of the lies you believed about God, yourself or others, and the choices you made believing that, then you are held fully accountable by the truth for killing His good life and creating bad life in His stead.

    Peace.
     
  14. awitch

    awitch Well-Known Member

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    And being held accountable includes being swallowed up by the Earth, being set on fire, being turned into a pillar of salt, being mauled by bears, being stoned to death, or being drowned in a planetary genocide?
     
  15. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    That is what is called, a painful reality.
     
  16. awitch

    awitch Well-Known Member

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    It's what I call evil.
     
  17. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    It is harsh, but it is what is real; and it is not evil. A harsh reality does not equal evil.
     
  18. awitch

    awitch Well-Known Member

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    No, I'm still going to chalk up drowning almost all the plants, animals, and even children under the evil category. That doesn't even take into account their supposed afterlife.
     
  19. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    Everyone God created has the capacity to love him, but they don't.
     
  20. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Eternal is a "beginning without an ending." No beginning means non-existence.

    Alpha First Beginning

    Isaiah 44:6
    “This is what the Lord says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.


    Isaiah 48:12
    “Listen to me, Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.


    Revelation 1:8
    “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”


    Revelation 21:6
    He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.


    Revelation 22:13
    I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.


    The proof that God exist is in the fact that spontaneous evolution of life is not possible in this universe. God evolved, then He created. From the Subatomic and the primordial Dark Matter. A type of nothing, because it has no atomic bonds to form anything. God created gravity and gravitons to form the atomic elements of this Universe.


    In regards to Yahshua the Messiah. This is how the verse should read.
    Hebrews 7:3
    Without father or mother, without genealogy, beginning of days without end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.
     
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