God in the Old Testament Compared to the Actions of Jesus Christ

[A Gerbil]

I accept that the Bible is divinely inspired, further I accept that the God of the Old Testament is Jesus Christ manifest in the flesh. However, I have trouble reconciling the two. The reason I accept this unquestionably, is because I prayed to God and He answered me.

On 8th May 2017, I talked with my pastor about the aforementioned dilemma I was having. I used Job 1:6-18 as an example. I'm paraphrasing, but essentially said "God appears to permit Satan to torment Job, how is that reconcilable with the love and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ? It cannot be a literal story, but only metaphorical." He replied that it wasn't metaphorical, and that if I were to study the Old Testament I would see that God, as He appears in those books, is the same as Jesus.

I simply could not accept this and he told me to pray about it, which I did before going to bed.

Now, almost every single day I receive an email from The Berean containing a Biblical verse and commentary. I had began my subscription in March of that year, and it appeared that most of the verses were from the New Testament. However on 9th May 2017 at 03:07, approximately four hours after I said my prayer, I received the following verse from The Berean:

Job:11-7

'Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you probe the limits of the Almighty?'

Now, I know there is such a thing as coincidence. However, that was something that had bothered me for a long time, months and months I had been ruminating about that topic. However that was the first time I prayed about it.

There are 66 books in the Bible, so ceteris paribus, that means the chance of the verse coming from the book of Job is 1/66. There are 31,102 verses in the Bible, and over a thousand in Job alone.

Even Richard Dawkins would surely acknowledge the statistical improbability of me being sent a verse from the book of Job, which answers the exact question I had asked. I didn't subscribe to any other Bible commentary, and so it is the only real way my question could have been answered, IMHO.

So I have taken it on faith alone. How do you reconcile the apparent discordance between God, as portrayed in the Old Testament (e.g. Job) and Jesus' teachings?

God bless!

 

[devin553344]

I accept that the Bible is divinely inspired, further I accept that the God of the Old Testament is Jesus Christ manifest in the flesh. However, I have trouble reconciling the two. The reason I accept this unquestionably, is because I prayed to God and He answered me.

On 8th May 2017, I talked with my pastor about the aforementioned dilemma I was having. I used Job 1:6-18 as an example. I'm paraphrasing, but essentially said "God appears to permit Satan to torment Job, how is that reconcilable with the love and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ? It cannot be a literal story, but only metaphorical." He replied that it wasn't metaphorical, and that if I were to study the Old Testament I would see that God, as He appears in those books, is the same as Jesus.

I simply could not accept this and he told me to pray about it, which I did before going to bed.

Now, almost every single day I receive an email from The Berean containing a Biblical verse and commentary. I had began my subscription in March of that year, and it appeared that most of the verses were from the New Testament. However on 9th May 2017 at 03:07, approximately four hours after I said my prayer, I received the following verse from The Berean:

Job:11-7

'Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you probe the limits of the Almighty?'

Now, I know there is such a thing as coincidence. However, that was something that had bothered me for a long time, months and months I had been ruminating about that topic. However that was the first time I prayed about it.

There are 66 books in the Bible, so ceteris paribus, that means the chance of the verse coming from the book of Job is 1/66. There are 31,102 verses in the Bible, and over a thousand in Job alone.

Even Richard Dawkins would surely acknowledge the statistical improbability of me being sent a verse from the book of Job, which answers the exact question I had asked. I didn't subscribe to any other Bible commentary, and so it is the only real way my question could have been answered, IMHO.

So I have taken it on faith alone. How do you reconcile the apparent discordance between God, as portrayed in the Old Testament (e.g. Job) and Jesus' teachings?

God bless!

Job was given a good life. That's why God allowed him to be cursed. Satan persecuted Job. And many Christians are persecuted. Why should Job be any different? And the story of Job, he gets back the good life afterwards.

How many of Gods children have a good life like Job had? Probably not that many. So I see Gods point in taking away his "good life" for a short while. Maybe taught him to appreciate the good life even more?

 

[Dave L]

God does not change. But his plan under the NT is different for believers. His wrath still abides on all except believers.

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36 (KJV 1900)

 

[timewerx]

'Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you probe the limits of the Almighty?'

That is true...

But it isn't a call to give up seeking God's mysteries. It simply the mere opinion of one of Job's friends..

Not every dialogue in the Bible comes from a good or correctly informed characters. That's pretty obvious... An example is the opinion of the bad thief with Christ in the cross is obviously bad reasoning...And that's an obvious example. Others, not so obvious.

It never means that God's mysteries are unknowable because we have John 15:15. If God's mysteries are unknowable then John 15:15 and John 16:13 is contradictory teaching.

Job 11:7 is a challenge, not a call to give up, according to John 15:15 and John 16:13

 

[SkyWriting]

I accept that the Bible is divinely inspired, further I accept that the God of the Old Testament is Jesus Christ manifest in the flesh. However, I have trouble reconciling the two. The reason I accept this unquestionably, is because I prayed to God and He answered me.

On 8th May 2017, I talked with my pastor about the aforementioned dilemma I was having. I used Job 1:6-18 as an example. I'm paraphrasing, but essentially said "God appears to permit Satan to torment Job, how is that reconcilable with the love and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ? It cannot be a literal story, but only metaphorical." He replied that it wasn't metaphorical, and that if I were to study the Old Testament I would see that God, as He appears in those books, is the same as Jesus.

I simply could not accept this and he told me to pray about it, which I did before going to bed.

Now, almost every single day I receive an email from The Berean containing a Biblical verse and commentary. I had began my subscription in March of that year, and it appeared that most of the verses were from the New Testament. However on 9th May 2017 at 03:07, approximately four hours after I said my prayer, I received the following verse from The Berean:

Job:11-7

'Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you probe the limits of the Almighty?'

Now, I know there is such a thing as coincidence. However, that was something that had bothered me for a long time, months and months I had been ruminating about that topic. However that was the first time I prayed about it.

There are 66 books in the Bible, so ceteris paribus, that means the chance of the verse coming from the book of Job is 1/66. There are 31,102 verses in the Bible, and over a thousand in Job alone.

Even Richard Dawkins would surely acknowledge the statistical improbability of me being sent a verse from the book of Job, which answers the exact question I had asked. I didn't subscribe to any other Bible commentary, and so it is the only real way my question could have been answered, IMHO.

So I have taken it on faith alone. How do you reconcile the apparent discordance between God, as portrayed in the Old Testament (e.g. Job) and Jesus' teachings?

God bless!

The Old testament is a historical document showing us that the Jewish nation was unable to keep all of the written laws and make it into Heaven by way of good works. God used them as a living example of why the New Covenant is the only way to go.

 

[public hermit]

Who was in God's presence to hear the conversation between God and the Adversary (Satan), and then record it for posterity?

I believe of all we find in the scriptures, Jesus Christ is the primary revelation of who God is and what God is like, for the fullness of the diety dwelled in him bodily. Let Jesus be your guide to knowing God. Read the scriptures through the lens of Jesus Christ. You can't go wrong, if you see him you have seen the Father.

 

[timewerx]

How many of Gods children have a good life like Job had? Probably not that many. So I see Gods point in taking away his "good life" for a short while.

I went through similar spells in life as Job did. I was never rich but I had a good and easy life in this world once and lost most of it. It went as bad as losing opportunities, losing hope, skipping meals, rationing my food, even contemplating suicide....That bad....

Maybe taught him to appreciate the good life even more?

It made me realize the truth of "good life" or what makes "good life" possible here in this world.

The truth about it made me resent it. Ignorance is bliss..... The truth is ugly (metaphorically-speaking) NOTE, "good life" has nothing to do with how much money you make in this world...

Having a "good life" in this world in a worldy fashion, by worldly standards is defined entirely by your level of ignorance. This is why ignorance is bliss.

 

[timewerx]

The Old testament is a historical document showing us that the Jewish nation was unable to keep all of the written laws and make it into Heaven by way of good works. God used them as a living example of why the New Covenant is the only way to go.

Ironically, as a historical document, it also records the sayings and opinions of the characters involved.

NOTE, a record is NOT a filter. So even the opinions of some characters during their times of wickedness are also recorded in the OT.

Thus, reading the OT still takes discernment. IT remains Divinely Inspired BUT, if you want to make an effective dialogue, you obviously have to include opposing opinions as well, otherwise, there won't be a dialogue, it would just be a monologue.

 

[SkyWriting]

Ironically, as a historical document, it also records the sayings and opinions of the characters involved.

NOTE, a record is NOT a filter. So even the opinions of some characters during their times of wickedness are also recorded in the OT.

Thus, reading the OT still takes discernment. IT remains Divinely Inspired BUT, if you want to make an effective dialogue, you obviously have to include opposing opinions as well, otherwise, there won't be a dialogue, it would just be a monologue.

I'm aware that the content is not filtered.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

So I have taken it on faith alone. How do you reconcile the apparent discordance between God, as portrayed in the Old Testament (e.g. Job) and Jesus' teachings?

Folks are always contrasting God of the OT and NT like it's some kind of Marcionite conspiracy.

Maybe I'm a very superficial reader, but I don't see any contradictions there. I mean, we're still in the Babylonian baby brain bashing business, but just no longer in the literal sense.

So Job was volunteered by God to perform prophecy. He's the prototype of the suffering servant, a type of Christ. And like Abraham with Isaac at Mt Moriah (aka the Akedah), God relies on him to have faith and all will work out.

Not only was Job rewarded in life, but his name has become a byword for reslience in the face of suffering. He is a great Biblical hero whose story has given heart to so many saints and martyrs over the years. How could he have foreseen his great legacy? God justly chastises him lol.

So when the disciples ask our Lord why the man was born blind in John 9:3:

Jesus answered, “It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him."

And the mighty works of God are indeed displayed consistently throughout the Bible and throughout history, even unto today.

So praise His thrice holy name and rejoice.

 

[Dave-W]

, I talked with my pastor about the aforementioned dilemma I was having. I used Job 1:6-18 as an example. I'm paraphrasing, but essentially said "God appears to permit Satan to torment Job, how is that reconcilable with the love and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ?

Do you not realize the exact same thing happened with Jesus and the devil? Only instead of Job, it was one of our Lord’s closest disciples and friends; Peter.

Luke 22:31 “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; 32 but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.”

Our Lord gave the devil his permission. That resulted in the brash and outspoken Peter denying the Lord 3 times and swearing. He was scared by a young servant girl. The same guy that 24 hours earlier was willing to take on Roman soldiers with only a sword and proudly proclaimed he would die for the Lord.

 

[A Gerbil]

Job was given a good life. That's why God allowed him to be cursed. Satan persecuted Job. And many Christians are persecuted. Why should Job be any different? And the story of Job, he gets back the good life afterwards.

How many of Gods children have a good life like Job had? Probably not that many. So I see Gods point in taking away his "good life" for a short while. Maybe taught him to appreciate the good life even more?

The point is it wasn't just Job who was affected, was it? Job's family were all killed. That seems a bit callous just to test Job's loyalty.

That is true...

But it isn't a call to give up seeking God's mysteries. It simply the mere opinion of one of Job's friends..

Not every dialogue in the Bible comes from a good or correctly informed characters. That's pretty obvious... An example is the opinion of the bad thief with Christ in the cross is obviously bad reasoning...And that's an obvious example. Others, not so obvious.

It never means that God's mysteries are unknowable because we have John 15:15. If God's mysteries are unknowable then John 15:15 and John 16:13 is contradictory teaching.

Job 11:7 is a challenge, not a call to give up, according to John 15:15 and John 16:13

I appreciate your reply. I believe that it is beyond human capability to understand God's will, and I think He was telling me that.

 

[timewerx]

I appreciate your reply. I believe that it is beyond human capability to understand God's will, and I think He was telling me that.

You might have misinterpreted the message because your understanding contradicts other teachings in the Bible in the subject:

John 4:22
You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.

John 15:15
I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.


God's Will is rather quite clearly mentioned in the Bible:

John 6:29
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

Belief:

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Works of the Lord, healing casting away of evil spirits, and this:

John 7:7
The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil.

 

[eleos1954]

I accept that the Bible is divinely inspired, further I accept that the God of the Old Testament is Jesus Christ manifest in the flesh. However, I have trouble reconciling the two. The reason I accept this unquestionably, is because I prayed to God and He answered me.

On 8th May 2017, I talked with my pastor about the aforementioned dilemma I was having. I used Job 1:6-18 as an example. I'm paraphrasing, but essentially said "God appears to permit Satan to torment Job, how is that reconcilable with the love and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ? It cannot be a literal story, but only metaphorical." He replied that it wasn't metaphorical, and that if I were to study the Old Testament I would see that God, as He appears in those books, is the same as Jesus.

I simply could not accept this and he told me to pray about it, which I did before going to bed.

Now, almost every single day I receive an email from The Berean containing a Biblical verse and commentary. I had began my subscription in March of that year, and it appeared that most of the verses were from the New Testament. However on 9th May 2017 at 03:07, approximately four hours after I said my prayer, I received the following verse from The Berean:

Job:11-7

'Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you probe the limits of the Almighty?'

Now, I know there is such a thing as coincidence. However, that was something that had bothered me for a long time, months and months I had been ruminating about that topic. However that was the first time I prayed about it.

There are 66 books in the Bible, so ceteris paribus, that means the chance of the verse coming from the book of Job is 1/66. There are 31,102 verses in the Bible, and over a thousand in Job alone.

Even Richard Dawkins would surely acknowledge the statistical improbability of me being sent a verse from the book of Job, which answers the exact question I had asked. I didn't subscribe to any other Bible commentary, and so it is the only real way my question could have been answered, IMHO.

So I have taken it on faith alone. How do you reconcile the apparent discordance between God, as portrayed in the Old Testament (e.g. Job) and Jesus' teachings?

God bless!

Much of the OT is about Jewish history and they were continually in disobedience towards God. Even so ... the Lord continued to work with them (because He loved them) and often due to their disobedience they suffered great consequences.

Sometimes in OT history God commanded certain "wars" etc. and when doing so ... some times it was to protect the lineage from which Jesus would come and/or to protect the people of Israel from falling into dangerous, corrupt peoples of the time (dealt with those as well).

The Lord chastens those whom He loves.

Hebrews 12:6 says, “For whom the Lord loves he chastens, and scourges every son whom he receives” (KJV). Another word for “chasten” is “discipline.” The passage goes on to quote Proverbs 3:11-12, which says, “My son, do not despise the Lord’s discipline and do not resent his rebuke, because the Lord disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in.” Proper discipline is a proof of love.

We are to learn from the successes and failures from history.

 

[devin553344]

The point is it wasn't just Job who was affected, was it? Job's family were all killed. That seems a bit callous just to test Job's loyalty.

What if Job's family is in heaven and better off from God's blessings to them. Remembering Satan killed them and is judged to the lake of fire.

 

[A Gerbil]

What if Job's family is in heaven and better off from God's blessings to them. Remembering Satan killed them and is judged to the lake of fire.

Good point.

 

[jamesbond007]

The Book of Job is difficult for me. It is about a man having the greatest faith in God even though he was tortured by Satan. It is a mystery as to why it happened, but one can only hope we can have the strong faith of Job. It's not like being rewarded in heaven means we do not suffer pain in this life although Jesus wants the best for us.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

How do you reconcile the apparent discordance between God, as portrayed in the Old Testament (e.g. Job) and Jesus' teachings?

By asking the Father for Wisdom , as He Gives to ALL men generously and WITHOUT REPROACH, as long as asked / sought/ in simplicity and not duplicity or double-mindedness.

"apparent discordance" is also a key. With and in or by Ekklesia in the Bible, OT and NT, there is not seen any discordance at all - only Perfect Harmony - as Yahuweh Sovereign Creator and Yahushua Hamashiach (the Father and the Son) have always been Echad, Eternally. (see "Echad" in Bible search engines online) .... Ekklesia, OT and NT, also are Echad, as Jesus continues in prayer for all the disciples to be Echad in John 17....

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The point is it wasn't just Job who was affected, was it? Job's family were all killed. That seems a bit callous just to test Job's loyalty.

I don't believe the purpose was to test Job's loyalty. Yahuweh always knows everything about everyone, even before He Created anything or anyone yet. The 'test' was to demonstrate Job's faithfulness, as God already knows before the test what the outcome is.