God gives them what they want

AvgJoe

Member since 2005
Supporter
Feb 5, 2005
2,748
1,099
Texas
✟332,516.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Private
there will be a multitude of people who thought they were saved and are surprised to find themselves being thrown into hell.

Among other things, Jesus says,

"if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" in Matthew 5:46.

So, by being conceited, feeling we are better than others so we do not care to love them > this conceit is on its way to hell!!!!

Jesus was in Heaven itself, when He decided to come here to reach us and care for us and save us and share His own good with us. So, Jesus and Heaven are not at all about the conceit of picking and choosing who is good enough for us to love.

But God is all-loving. And plenty of people are "burnt" about loving unselfishly > this gives them motive to avoid Jesus. They possibly actually feel they are too good for Jesus . . . so they have a conceit problem, to say the least. They need to dump that and get into God's all-loving love, instead.

But what about the people who aren't saved, don't think that they're saved, do they really want to go to hell?

I think it's a character issue, not only about choices. If someone does not have and grow in the character of Christ's way of loving; then what is in them, really, and where is it going?

About those who do not know > Luke 12:48 < I consider that this is because one's character has so much to do with it, and not only what someone knows and does.

A person gains salvation/is born again/is going to Heaven based on their character, not on their choice?

The Bible does not agree with that assessment.

Romans 3:10-12(NIV)

10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. 12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.”
Left on their own, an unbeliever will never seek salvation in the Lord, regardless of their character.

How are we saved/born again/going to Heaven?

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

We are made right in God’s sight when we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in the same way, no matter who we are or what we have done. (Romans 3:22)

For God sent Jesus to take the punishment for our sins and to satisfy God’s anger against us. We are made right with God when we believe that Jesus shed His blood, sacrificing His Life for us. (Romans 3:25)

For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. (Romans 10:9-10)​

We are saved when we exercise the faith that God has given us, by choosing to believe what God says about Jesus, in the Bible, and trusting Him to make it so.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: friend of
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,767
7,913
NW England
✟1,041,298.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I had a interesting conversation with another Christian a few days ago. Here is what I picked up.

God created man in his image, and one of the traits is free will, and man knows the difference between good and evil and it is up for him to choose to do good or evil.

Those who choose evil ultimately chose to go to hell, and that is where they actually want to go.

A evil sinner doesn't want to be in heaven because heaven will be torturous for him because he will not be able to do the things he loves which is sinning against God.

I wonder how many people there are who actually KNOW that Jesus died for and loves sinners, have experienced God's mercy and grace and THEN wilfully reject it?
There may be some. I'm also sure there will be those who continually shut their ears to the Gospel and carry on pleasing themselves, sinning and refusing to think about God.

Not all will be saved, so please don't assume that I'm a universalist.
But I wonder how many people who we think are rejecting God, are in fact rejecting the church, or are merely angry with God and/or in pain because loved ones have died, or they've had a hellish life and God doesn't seem to have answered their prayers as expected?

For someone to choose hell, it suggests that they know about, or can clearly see, both options, but deliberately decide to take up one of them.

Also sinners love pain so that's why they go there too.

Really?
I was unsaved once; I didn't enjoy pain any more than the next person. In my experience, it's because people ARE in pain, through disability, emotion upset, illness, war etc that they conclude that God doesn't exist.

Jesus only called the sinners to repentance, and changed their hearts.

We are ALL sinners, Romans 3:23.
Jesus died for sinners, Romans 5:8.
Anyone who thinks they aren't a sinner, or haven't sinned, is deluded and making God out to be a liar, 1 John 1:8-10.

The ones that don't want to be changed and born again made their decision.

Do they know what being born again means?
Do they know what it means to be changed, or do they have an image of themselves becoming a joyless, Bible carrying, party/pub/make up hating person - because they perceive that that's what Christians are like?

It's very sobering to realise that some of the non Christians we meet may be thinking, "well if being a Christian means becoming like you, I don't want it."
Heaven forbid that I should be the reason some reject the Gospel.
 
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,767
7,913
NW England
✟1,041,298.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I had head knowledge & I believe with all my heart that Jesus is the Son of God. But I also believe that most likely I was created to be a vessel of destruction.

Very unlikely.
You know who Jesus is, you are debating and discussing on a Christian forum, seem to be looking for answers, or something more, and have been willing to share your experience with us.

You may have come to rely on your feelings to confirm that something is true.
Head knowledge is fine; just stick with it until it becomes heart knowledge and REALLY true for you - or ask God if he will place that knowledge, and his word, deep in your heart.

Jesus died for sinners, Romans 5:8. If you believe you are a sinner, Jesus died for you - the Son of God who you believe in; the spotless Lamb, 1 Peter 1:19 willing went to the cross and lay down his life so that YOU could have a relationship with God, know his amazing love, Romans 8:38-39, and become his child, John 1:12.
 
Upvote 0

Anthony2019

Pax et bonum!
Supporter
Jan 25, 2019
5,957
10,894
Staffordshire, United Kingdom
✟748,345.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
I had a interesting conversation with another Christian a few days ago. Here is what I picked up.

God created man in his image, and one of the traits is free will, and man knows the difference between good and evil and it is up for him to choose to do good or evil.

Those who choose evil ultimately chose to go to hell, and that is where they actually want to go.

A evil sinner doesn't want to be in heaven because heaven will be torturous for him because he will not be able to do the things he loves which is sinning against God.

Also sinners love pain so that's why they go there too.

Jesus only called the sinners to repentance, and changed their hearts.

The ones that don't want to be changed and born again made their decision.

Sounds like he was having a bit of a rant? :)
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,648
6,107
Massachusetts
✟583,317.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
A person gains salvation/is born again/is going to Heaven based on their character, not on their choice?
First, of course, our salvation is based on Jesus and all He has done. And we obey this, thanks to God changing our hearts to become obedient. So, we do need the character of obedience in our hearts so we can choose to obey the gospel > the thanks is to God, for this > Romans 6:17. So, it is not based on us or our character or our choosing, really, but on God working in us, renewing our nature to become obedient to choose Jesus and salvation > Paul speaks of the "renewing of the Holy Spirit" being involved in our being saved > Titus 3:5.

Left on their own, an unbeliever will never seek salvation in the Lord, regardless of their character.
Well, doesn't every unbeliever have the character to not believe? So, isn't it the same nature, for every believer? Paul says "we all" "were by nature children of wrath, just as the others." (in Ephesians 2:3) So, I think God needs to change one's heart, one's character so the person believes.

We are saved when we exercise the faith that God has given us, by choosing to believe what God says about Jesus, in the Bible, and trusting Him to make it so.
Yes, and I am offering that we need to have the obedient character so we obey this. Becoming saved includes how God changes our nature so we become obedient.
 
Upvote 0

AvgJoe

Member since 2005
Supporter
Feb 5, 2005
2,748
1,099
Texas
✟332,516.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Private
First, of course, our salvation is based on Jesus and all He has done. And we obey this, thanks to God changing our hearts to become obedient. So, we do need the character of obedience in our hearts so we can choose to obey the gospel > the thanks is to God, for this > Romans 6:17. So, it is not based on us or our character or our choosing, really, but on God working in us, renewing our nature to become obedient to choose Jesus and salvation > Paul speaks of the "renewing of the Holy Spirit" being involved in our being saved > Titus 3:5.

Well, doesn't every unbeliever have the character to not believe? So, isn't it the same nature, for every believer? Paul says "we all" "were by nature children of wrath, just as the others." (in Ephesians 2:3) So, I think God needs to change one's heart, one's character so the person believes.

Yes, and I am offering that we need to have the obedient character so we obey this. Becoming saved includes how God changes our nature so we become obedient.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood but it sounded like a different Gospel was being presented.
 
Upvote 0

rnmomof7

Legend
Feb 9, 2002
14,465
733
Western NY
✟78,744.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
Interesting thoughts expressed here . Do we think men really think about hell when they sin? Do they recognize sin as they commit it? Does man consciously choose a path to hell?
My guess is most people do not consider eternity in their lives.. they see God as the woman justice with scales weighing the good and the bad ...and if you have more good than bad you go to heaven.. Most people consider themselves as "good" because they measure themselves not against the holiness of God..but other men... and they see themselves as better than most other men.

Can an unsaved man do anything that is "good" before God? Is there salvation with good works?

Finally can one come to Christ without knowing Him with the scriptures? Can our imperfect "love" save anyone??
 
Upvote 0

CaspianSails

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2019
579
302
65
Washington DC metro area
✟27,746.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I had a interesting conversation with another Christian a few days ago. Here is what I picked up.

God created man in his image, and one of the traits is free will, and man knows the difference between good and evil and it is up for him to choose to do good or evil.

Those who choose evil ultimately chose to go to hell, and that is where they actually want to go.

A evil sinner doesn't want to be in heaven because heaven will be torturous for him because he will not be able to do the things he loves which is sinning against God.

Also sinners love pain so that's why they go there too.

Jesus only called the sinners to repentance, and changed their hearts.

The ones that don't want to be changed and born again made their decision.

An interesting albeit non enlightened and superficial observation of the state of mankind and the consequences of man's actions. The assumption is man completely understands the consequence of a decision to believe or disbelieve in a world where those who claim to have made a decision cannot agree on much but the very basic principles of Christianity. It appears more of an excuse of not needing to evangelize than anything else.

The mere act chosing good over evil is not akin to being a follower of Christ. If I chose to do good I will not necessarilly be with Christ. Many will say to me in that day, paraphrasing, I did this or that in your name. Jesus will reply, I never knew you. So many will say but Lord I did all these good things and in your name but He did not know them. Those who reject Gods gift of salvation or as some of our brethren would say, were not chosen by God, do not do so out of desire for torture or pain. I would be surprised if those were ever in the equation. People reject God because of pride for example. I don't need God, I am a god, I will be a god or maybe I have a god I like better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AvgJoe
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

A_Thinker

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 23, 2004
11,911
9,064
Midwest
✟931,284.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Now I have no emotions, just a shell of a person.
Salvation is not of the emotions ... it is of faith (i.e. belief).

We are cautioned, as believers, not to rely upon our feelings, as there will be periods where we don't "feel" saved.

But scripture tells us that ... even when our heart is unfaithful, God remains faithful ...
 
  • Agree
Reactions: AvgJoe
Upvote 0

Inagony

Active Member
Feb 14, 2019
57
48
52
Texas
✟61,259.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I want Jesus more than anything I ever wanted in my whole life. He is the only one who can make me whole. I didn’t know my own heart. I didn’t honor God as God & feel as if He turned me over 13 years ago. I had no real concept of who God was. After that I feel into wrong teaching (prosperity/name it & claim it) using God. Said and done some terrible things. Completely delusional.
 
Upvote 0

A_Thinker

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 23, 2004
11,911
9,064
Midwest
✟931,284.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I want Jesus more than anything I ever wanted in my whole life. He is the only one who can make me whole.
If you want Him ... you have Him, as He is 100% faithful to you.

Come to Me, all you who struggle under life's heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Join with Me, and get to know Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

Matthew 11:28-29
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Inagony

Active Member
Feb 14, 2019
57
48
52
Texas
✟61,259.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
If you want Him ... you have Him, as He is 100% faithful to you.

Come to Me, all you who struggle under life's heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Join with Me, and get to know Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

Matthew 11:28-29

Thank you for your encouragement. Would you please pray for me? I was very prideful (again, I didn’t recognize this). I despised authority all my life, but I didn’t understand it as this. I’ve been pretty much a fake all my life as I just didn’t know how to relate to other people, so I just learned mimick others. I fit so many of the scriptures about the wicked. Please pray.
 
Upvote 0

A_Thinker

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 23, 2004
11,911
9,064
Midwest
✟931,284.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Thank you for your encouragement. Would you please pray for me? I was very prideful (again, I didn’t recognize this). I despised authority all my life, but I didn’t understand it as this. I’ve been pretty much a fake all my life as I just didn’t know how to relate to other people, so I just learned mimick others. I fit so many of the scriptures about the wicked. Please pray.
I will pray for you ....
 
Upvote 0

childeye 2

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
4,917
2,884
66
Denver CO
✟200,651.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Thank you for your encouragement. Would you please pray for me? I was very prideful (again, I didn’t recognize this). I despised authority all my life, but I didn’t understand it as this. I’ve been pretty much a fake all my life as I just didn’t know how to relate to other people, so I just learned mimick others. I fit so many of the scriptures about the wicked. Please pray.
Do you think that puppies are cute?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums