God, Forgiveness and the Death Penalty

newton3005

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Back in 2018 the Pope revised the Catechism to say that the death penalty is “inadmissable because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person...” In the revision, he makes reference to “a new understanding...of the significance of penal sanctions imposed by the state.” While he doesn’t explain in the catechism what is meant by this, experiences with the death penalty in countries like the U.S. has shown that people had been found by the state to be guilty of murder despite not having committed the murder. Also, people on death row in the U.S. have been found to be wrongfully convicted and have been set free. Thus, at least in regard to those people, the state makes an attempt to restore their “inviolability and dignity.”

While the Bible maintains that killing a person who murdered someone else is a proper and just punishment, it also infers that to murder someone without just cause, that is, someone who in fact hasn’t themselves committed a murder if that is what they’re being executed for, is an act of murder on the part of the executioner and as such, the executioner should be killed. To be sure, God decrees in Genesis 9:6. “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.” Romans 13:1 says, “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.” Thus, Romans 13:1 assigns much of the duties that God Himself would undertake, so as decreed in Genesis 9:6, a government under God has the responsibility to carry out this decree.

Under perfect conditions, this would be well and good. The problem is, as the Bible says that man is not perfect, as we have seen, governments under God have executed the wrong people, and have maintained the wrong people on death row, making those working for such a government to be murderers or potential murderers themselves, respectively.

Which brings us to those who are in government or not, who have murdered. The Bible says that if you ask for forgiveness, you will be forgiven. 1 John 1:9 says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” Since God is never unjust, the inference is that He would not be unjust enough to not forgive us of our sins if we ask. The inference also is that He will forgive us each time we sin and ask Him for forgiveness. And the Bible tells us that when God forgives us, we will be washed anew. As such, we would be worthy of entry into God’s Kingdom, as the condemned man on the cross next to Jesus, who acknowledged God’s existence, was allowed entry in Luke 23:42.

Is there a contradiction between God’s decree in Genesis 9:6 that murders should die, and His allowing the same murderer entry into His Kingdom if the murderer asks for forgiveness? I tell you that there is no contradiction, rather, it is a logical consequence of such a person who asks God for forgiveness.

And, in line with what the Pope said, as the state can be imperfect in meting out the death penalty, making itself a government of potential murderers, the state should leave it to God’s grand design of things to exact such extreme justice....if only to avoid being murderers themselves.
 

HTacianas

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Back in 2018 the Pope revised the Catechism to say that the death penalty is “inadmissable because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person...” In the revision, he makes reference to “a new understanding...of the significance of penal sanctions imposed by the state.” While he doesn’t explain in the catechism what is meant by this, experiences with the death penalty in countries like the U.S. has shown that people had been found by the state to be guilty of murder despite not having committed the murder. Also, people on death row in the U.S. have been found to be wrongfully convicted and have been set free. Thus, at least in regard to those people, the state makes an attempt to restore their “inviolability and dignity.”

While the Bible maintains that killing a person who murdered someone else is a proper and just punishment, it also infers that to murder someone without just cause, that is, someone who in fact hasn’t themselves committed a murder if that is what they’re being executed for, is an act of murder on the part of the executioner and as such, the executioner should be killed. To be sure, God decrees in Genesis 9:6. “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.” Romans 13:1 says, “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.” Thus, Romans 13:1 assigns much of the duties that God Himself would undertake, so as decreed in Genesis 9:6, a government under God has the responsibility to carry out this decree.

Under perfect conditions, this would be well and good. The problem is, as the Bible says that man is not perfect, as we have seen, governments under God have executed the wrong people, and have maintained the wrong people on death row, making those working for such a government to be murderers or potential murderers themselves, respectively.

Which brings us to those who are in government or not, who have murdered. The Bible says that if you ask for forgiveness, you will be forgiven. 1 John 1:9 says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” Since God is never unjust, the inference is that He would not be unjust enough to not forgive us of our sins if we ask. The inference also is that He will forgive us each time we sin and ask Him for forgiveness. And the Bible tells us that when God forgives us, we will be washed anew. As such, we would be worthy of entry into God’s Kingdom, as the condemned man on the cross next to Jesus, who acknowledged God’s existence, was allowed entry in Luke 23:42.

Is there a contradiction between God’s decree in Genesis 9:6 that murders should die, and His allowing the same murderer entry into His Kingdom if the murderer asks for forgiveness? I tell you that there is no contradiction, rather, it is a logical consequence of such a person who asks God for forgiveness.

And, in line with what the Pope said, as the state can be imperfect in meting out the death penalty, making itself a government of potential murderers, the state should leave it to God’s grand design of things to exact such extreme justice....if only to avoid being murderers themselves.

So in all cases where a person is accused of murder they should be set free?
 
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SkyWriting

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While the Bible maintains that killing a person who murdered someone else is a proper and just punishment...

No, it really doesn't maintain that in the slightest.
The old laws are obsolete.


Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Is there a contradiction between God’s decree in Genesis 9:6 that mur...

Obsolete.
 
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newton3005

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So in all cases where a person is accused of murder they should be set free?

To put this in the form of your understanding capabilities, a person who is accused of murder and found not guilty should be set free. A person accused of murder and found guilty should be punished with something other than the death penalty, in the event justice has made a mistake and is therefore in a position to let him/her go. There was a person on death row recently for over 20 years and it was found he was falsely convicted. He was let go.

I believe the Pope would agree with my response to you in terms of his revising the catechism.
 
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newton3005

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No, it really doesn't maintain that in the slightest.
The old laws are obsolete.


Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.



Obsolete.

Hebrews 8:13 speaks of a covenant which God made with the Hebrews. If anything passed away, it's the old covenant, but the Law essentially remains the same because...

2 Corinthians 5:17 doesn't say the old LAW passed away. In fact, Jesus asserts that his two great commandments sums up the old Law and the prophets.

As for Genesis 9:6 being obsolete, OK, if, so, then the death penalty is obsolete. Are you inferring that THAT is why the Pope rejects the use of the death penalty in his change to the catechism?
 
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WebersHome

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1John 5:16-17 . . If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

The most common sins unto death are those classified as capital crimes; viz: those for which the death penalty is the right thing to do. It would be a miscarriage of justice to pray somebody out of that jam. If the courts and the laws of the land have decided that they must die; then they must die; and that's that.

If a fellow believer is on death row for a capital offense; it's best to stay out of it and let God and the courts handle it. Christians on death row should be encouraged to man-up (or woman-up, as the case may be) and face the music rather than expect sympathy from either their church or their Christian friends. Christians who pray for the release of believers on death row for capital crimes are not only attempting to obstruct justice, but also in shameful rebellion against Almighty God's sovereign wishes.

Rom 13:3-4 . . For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
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WebersHome

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FAQ: Don't you think it's better to lock all murderers away for life rather than risk taking the lives of those who are innocent?

A: It is never better to disobey God. The first couple did, and you see what that got them.

Disobedience is on a scale with dark arts and the worship of pagan gods like Shiva and Vishnu.

"Has the Lord as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry. (1Sam 15:22-23)

In war, commanders expect a percentage of casualties by human error and/or friendly fire; and those kinds of casualties are usually factored in as acceptable losses. But it isn't wise to turn off a war off just because somebody might get hurt by friendly fire. Accidents happen; even under ideal conditions.

It's the same with the war on crime. Just because a percentage of innocent people get executed for something they didn't do, is no excuse to get in bed with the Devil and oppose God's edicts.

America's justice system, although far from perfect, has a pretty good batting average. The overwhelming majority of people dead from executions fully deserved what they got. Only a tiny percentage are victims of error; and those percentages should always be considered acceptable losses in any legitimate endeavor to protect domestic tranquility.
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WebersHome

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When the Flood subsided, God instituted capital punishment for murder.

He didn't do it because murder is a sin, nor did He because murder is wrong, nor did He because murder is immoral, nor did He in order to balance the scales of justice. No; none of that. The reason He gave is surprising. It's this:

"For in His image did God make man." (Gen 9:6)

In other words: murder fails to respect the sanctity of human life; ergo: murder is sacrilege; defined by Webster's as gross irreverence toward a hallowed person, place, or thing.

When political activists fight to abolish capital punishment for murder, they openly demonstrate their lack of sympathy for God's personal feelings about desecration.
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