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Featured God does not love everyone and the Bible says so (Change My Mind)

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by 98cwitr, May 31, 2018.

  1. Hammster

    Hammster A-Atheist Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    What game?
     
  2. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    well as I understand sinless perfectionism that is NOT what I am saying but no matter, my point was that we disagree on the premise therefore the rest we will disagree on as well.
     
  3. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    The game many posters play...all I am asking is that you clarify the parameters so that there cannot be any foul play call that doesn't really exist...
     
  4. Hammster

    Hammster A-Atheist Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Well, we either continue to sin after regeneration and justification, or we don’t.
     
  5. Hammster

    Hammster A-Atheist Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I have no idea what you’re talking about. I posted a verse, and commented on it. You said something about context. I asked what you meant. I don’t think I’m the one playing a game.
     
  6. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    I thought we weren't suppose to talk about it here?! What I said is that we DO NOT have to, not that we don't but that in the power of the indwelling HS we are no longer slaves to sin and death but rather freemen who choose whether or not to allow God to keep us free from sin. Huge difference from what your post seems to indicate I said.
     
  7. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    I did not say you were, but before when I called someone on contextual understanding I was told that was flaming and I want to be above reproach so I am asking for the usual stumbling blocks ahead of time so that I can't violate some flaming rule about calling for contextual understanding.
     
  8. Hammster

    Hammster A-Atheist Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I still don’t understand the issue or what you’re talking about. You can either address Mark 1:4, or we can just move on.
     
  9. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    what version? can we look at the lexicon too?
     
  10. Hammster

    Hammster A-Atheist Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I really don’t care what version.
     
  11. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    4 And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5 The whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River. 6 John wore clothing made of camel’s hair, with a leather belt around his waist, and he ate locusts and wild honey. 7 And this was his message: “After me comes the one more powerful than I, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. 8 I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”


    NIV version...First notice that John is preaching a baptism of repentance....okay in most of our versions this means that baptism is part of the repentance of our sins, in your version the forgiveness of sin comes first.

    Quick question before we look at the clarifications given in the text...how can one repent of something that doesn't exist? Scripture tells us that Psalms 103:11-12 and Hebrew 8:12....both of which and other passage tell us that once it is forgiven they no longer exist as per God, so how then can we repent of something that doesn't exist, if your interpretation is right? Oh well, back to task, not common sense but context.

    Look then at verse 5 they confessed then were baptized...the confession came first...if the baptism of repentance comes before the forgiveness then we just proved you wrong from the standpoint of context.

    Now let's see if we find the same thing in the Lexicon...from strong's site...according to Thayers the word that is translated for should mean into, unto, to, towards, for, among. Here is more explanation from Thayers
    εἰς, a preposition governing the accusative, and denoting entrance into, or direction and limit: into, to, toward, for, among. It is used:
    A. Properly
    I. of place, after verbs of going, coming, sailing, flying, falling, living, leading, carrying, throwing, sending, etc.;
    1. of a place entered, or of entrance into a place, into; and a. it stands before nouns designating an open place, a hollow thing, or one in which an object can be hidden: as εἰς (τήν) πόλιν, Matthew 26:18; Matthew 28:11; Mark 1:45, and often; εἰς τόν οἶκον, Matthew 9:7; συναγωγήν, Acts 17:10; πλοῖον, Matthew 8:23;
     
  12. Hammster

    Hammster A-Atheist Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    What do you want me to address first? I try to avoid extra long posts as too much gets missed.
     
  13. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    split it up and address them one by one if you want, they are all part of the context...well except for the personal question, so actually only two posts if you want to separate it.
     
  14. Hammster

    Hammster A-Atheist Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I’ve read through this couple of times and don’t see where you addressed that the context dictates that your understanding is correct.
     
  15. Hammster

    Hammster A-Atheist Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his steadfast love toward those who fear him;
    12 as far as the east is from the west, so far does he remove our transgressions from us. - Psalm 103:11-12

    For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more." - Hebrews 8:12

    Neither passage say what you claim they say. So the way your question is worded makes it impossible for me to answer.
     
  16. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    I highlighted and explained and I know for fact I am not that hard to understand so I am not sure what to say at this point...if you can't see it after highlighting and explaining and even quoting from other sources I am not sure how to communicate better with you. Maybe pray that God will reveal to you what I am suggesting since He promises to give wisdom to all who ask and in the meantime I will ask Him to reveal another way to say the same thing.
     
  17. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    hum...so how far is the east from the west? what does "I will remember their sins no more" if it doesn't mean God no longer remembers their sins as I have said that is what it means? I mean you are really confusing me on this one...I say that God no longer remembers our sins when He forgives them and the verse I sight says and I quote "I will remember their sins no more" and you claim it doesn't say what I said...I don't know that seems like a pretty bold claim to make since they are almost word for word the exact same claim....feel free to show how "God no longer remembers our sins when He forgives us" is a different claim from "I will remember their sins no more." I am really curious how you think they differ.
     
  18. Hammster

    Hammster A-Atheist Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    The condescension is not warranted.

    You gave the definitions, but never explained how the context led to your understanding being correct.
     
  19. Hammster

    Hammster A-Atheist Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    When it says that He will remember them know more, it means He will no longer hold them against us. It doesn’t mean they cease to exist, which neither of your passages say anyway.
     
  20. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

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    except two things 1. I am not speaking in a condescending manner and if you are reading that into my posts you are wrong. and 2. I did explain it, it just isn't that hard of an explanation...In the text, confession preceded baptism FOR forgiveness. How much explanation can I give...if one comes before the other, claiming the later comes first goes against the context of the passage.
     
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