God does not love everyone and the Bible says so (Change My Mind)

[Hammster]

Dishonesty on your part twice.

You addressed two central points with your post.

God’s Mercy
God’s Love

You contested their validity by saying Hell was proof enough.

I gave you a scenario that proofs your statement incorrect and is easily comprehended as so. It was indefensible by you, so you chose to dishonestly claim Non Sequitur, because it’s a fancy debate word and you felt it was sufficient to sweep aside the point.

This is apparent to any unbiased reader.

Here’s my post and your reply.

What did His death accomplish? Did it save us, or just make us savable?

We all are ressurected, per scripture. That’s a start. Hebrews 2:14 shows that His death broke the power of the one that wields death.

The Body of Christ that passes is with Him, now.

There is a raising of the dead, in Revelation.

If Thessalonians says we come back with Him and are caught up with Him, why is He “Judging” the dead instead of condemning the dead?

How does He have the ability to work with the unrepentant, one last time?

1 John 2:2. Not just our sins, but the sins of the Kosmou (root of Kosmo [Kosmos] (Universe).

Either we have to scrub that we are with Jesus upon death, or you acknowledge He propitiated for all.

It’s that simple.

Sophism that attempts to change the word world is again exposed by simple evaluation.

You never even attempted to address my post.

Hence my reply.

 

[Grip Docility]

Not relevant as Scripture shows that not all are God’s children. And, it’s not a rebuttal, either.

You’ve done this in earlier thread history as well.

You alluded that the words didn’t address the OP, then you later admitted that you deemed it invalid, but recognized that it addressed the OP.

I will be technical with you to maintain presence.

 

[Hammster]

You’ve done this in earlier thread history as well.

You alluded that the words didn’t address the OP, then you later admitted that you deemed it invalid, but recognized that it addressed the OP.

I will be technical with you to maintain presence.

I think you have me confused with someone else.

 

[Grip Docility]

Here’s my post and your reply.




You never even attempted to address my post.

Hence my reply.

No one could be Ressurected without the Cross.

Hebrews 2:14 makes this clear and binds to flesh and blood.

I was assuming you would catch the refrence.

 

[Hammster]

No one could be Ressurected without the Cross.

Hebrews 2:14 makes this clear and binds to flesh and blood.

I was assuming you would catch the refrence.

And it still didn’t answer my very specific question.

 

[Grip Docility]

I think you have me confused with someone else.

God does not love everyone and the Bible says so (Change My Mind)

Post 241

 

[Grip Docility]

And it still didn’t answer my very specific question.

Your questions are more than questions. They assault the very Integrity of Jesus Christ’s Love.

As you have the choice to not answer questions through sketchy debate tactics, I have the choice to post a Scriptural fact that undermines your initial question or clearly place your questions “train of thought” within a statement that makes it clear what you are actually insinuating about the character of God.

This isn’t bad debate form, or Ad Hominem.

It is pointing out a solid chain of proof that you are using methods that are questionable to undermine arguments that proof your point incorrect.

 

[Grip Docility]

And it still didn’t answer my very specific question.

Jesus Christ mourned the Pharisees in the passage he rebuked them.

Matthew 23

You are attempting to sweep His Love and compassion under the rug with grand attempts to show God as merciless and without Love.

Your target debate point is never shifting and your method is to avoid questions that honestly have points that undermine yours.

Scripture that immediatly undermines your point is questioned as if it’s verbiage is questionable.

How can any logical conclusion be reached if your sole point of debate is to undermine a point with diversion and shift a passage of scripture to fit your view?

I’m here to proof that God does Love all and I have no ism to defend in the process.

I feel as if God is losing something if you are permitted to reduce valid points with deceptive strategy and want to ensure your actual personal beliefs come forward, verses a lockstep defense of a reformed doctrine.

You said your heart desires Universalism, yet you don’t think God’s does.

Do you really think the God that Died for Sinners is void of Love for a single person and desires suffering at any point?

 

[Hammster]

Your questions are more than questions. They assault the very Integrity of Jesus Christ’s Love.

As you have the choice to not answer questions through sketchy debate tactics, I have the choice to post a Scriptural fact that undermines your initial question or clearly place your questions “train of thought” within a statement that makes it clear what you are actually insinuating about the character of God.

This isn’t bad debate form, or Ad Hominem.

It is pointing out a solid chain of proof that you are using methods that are questionable to undermine arguments that proof your point incorrect.

And...still not answering. It is a valid question. But I’ve been doing this long enough to know why it’s avoided.

 

[Hammster]

Jesus Christ mourned the Pharisees in the passage he rebuked them.

Matthew 23

You are attempting to sweep His Love and compassion under the rug with grand attempts to show God as merciless and without Love.

Your target debate point is never shifting and your method is to avoid questions that honestly have points that undermine yours.

Scripture that immediatly undermines your point is questioned as if it’s verbiage is questionable.

How can any logical conclusion be reached if your sole point of debate is to undermine a point with diversion and shift a passage of scripture to fit your view?

I’m here to proof that God does Love all and I have no ism to defend in the process.

I feel as if God is losing something if you are permitted to reduce valid points with deceptive strategy and want to ensure your actual personal beliefs come forward, verses a lockstep defense of a reformed doctrine.

You said your heart desires Universalism, yet you don’t think God’s does.

Do you really think the God that Died for Sinners is void of Love for a single person and desires suffering at any point?

Since you’d rather attack me than debate the points, there’s not much more to say.

 

[Grip Docility]

And...still not answering. It is a valid question. But I’ve been doing this long enough to know why it’s avoided.

You are attacking others by invalidating their points.

Christ propitiated for all. All don’t accept Him.

No amount of sophism can remove choice from the equation.

To, now, argue God doesn’t Love all, because not all Love Him back, is obsurd.

 

[Grip Docility]

Since you’d rather attack me than debate the points, there’s not much more to say.

I’ve been directly addressing your sidestepping.

I offered a direct point that if Christ didn’t propitiate for All, not all could be Ressurected.

When people are cast in Hell, it is due to their rejection of God, nor God’s rejection of them.

You are dodging the point made and scripturally backed.

Your quote merely validates my observation.

 

[Hammster]

Christ propitiated for all.

Propitiation means that God’s wrath is satisfied against sin. If this is the case for everyone, then no one can be in hell because it would be unjust for God to punish someone for something His Son took the punishment for.

 

[Grip Docility]

Propitiation means that God’s wrath is satisfied against sin. If this is the case for everyone, then no one can be in hell because it would be unjust for God to punish someone for something His Son took the punishment for.

The Sin of the world is unbelief.

The sins charged by the Law were propitiated for and Hebrews 2:14 and 1 Corinthians 15:54-56 explains who brought about the keeping of charges.

You are saying God had to kill God to satisfy His wrath.

I say God died out of Love, and willingly gave His life for all, even those that will despise Him to their final rejection of Him.

There is a significant difference.

 

[Grip Docility]

Propitiation means that God’s wrath is satisfied against sin. If this is the case for everyone, then no one can be in hell because it would be unjust for God to punish someone for something His Son took the punishment for.

Who’s fault is it that the thief on the cross rejected Jesus, and what was the motivation of the thief who accepted Christ?

Both could hear His voice.

Luke 23:39-43

Jesus responds to the thief’s faith.

Do you really blame God for a person’s disbelief?

 

[Hammster]

The Sin of the world is unbelief.

The sins charged by the Law were propitiated for and Hebrews 2:14 and 1 Corinthians 15:54-56 explains who brought about the keeping of charges.

You are saying God had to kill God to satisfy His wrath.

I say God died out of Love, and willingly gave His life for all, even those that will despise Him to their final rejection of Him.

There is a significant difference.

What did His death accomplish? Did His death pay for all of the sins of all man?

 

[Hammster]

Who’s fault is it that the thief on the cross rejected Jesus, and what was the motivation of the thief who accepted Christ?

Both could hear His voice.

Luke 23:39-43

Jesus responds to the thief’s faith.

Do you really blame God for a person’s disbelief?

Since Christ said that His sheep hear His voice, and that those who don’t believe do so because they are not His sheep, then the biblical conclusion is that only one of them was His sheep.

 

[Grip Docility]

Since Christ said that His sheep hear His voice, and that those who don’t believe do so because they are not His sheep, then the biblical conclusion is that only one of them was His sheep.

So, you blame Christ?

 

[Strong in Him]

The fact that there’s hell proves that God doesn’t show mercy to everyone.

No it doesn't.
Hell is complete separation from God; people are in hell after they die if they died in their sins, rejected God's grace, mercy and love and continued to live for themselves and try to save themselves.
As I've said, if someone is not reconciled to God when they die, if they do not have forgiveness of sins and new life through Jesus, then they cannot be with God. And because there is life after death, they will continue to exist, for all eternity, in a state of being without God and with no prospect of forgiveness for their sins.

If you don't believe in the concept of human choice, or being able to decide to respond to Jesus' invitations and accept God's free gift of eternal life, then you are left with salvation on God's whim - "I'll choose you, but not you". I don't see that in Scripture, I see a God who says "Everyone who comes/believes/receives/eats "etc. Not everyone will come, respond to the invitation or accept that Jesus died for them. Some may never hear, some may hear, but think "that's not for me; I'm unworthy/not good enough/have committed x sin". Some may hear this invitation but don't believe it; they don't believe they need to come to Jesus to be saved, they believe that God loves and will save everyone and their good deeds are good enough. Or they may feel they don't need saving at all, that their bad deeds have not been bad enough. Some might refuse, point blank, to think about God at all, and that might be because they are confusing God with the church, have been badly let down by the church, or cannot accept a god who, they believe, causes suffering.
It's easy to dismiss such people and claim that they were never chosen, (I'm not saying you're doing that), or that they weren't predestined to believe, but I don't believe that it's accurate.

If you adopt the scenario of salvation being random and it's up to God to choose which of us to save, then it must make for a rather uncertain life; "am I chosen or not, could I be deselected if I mess up enough times/miss God's plan for my life?" If God can choose on a whim then presumably he can change his mind, also on a whim.
Jesus told us to go and make disciples and to be his witnesses - he did not say "God only loves a few and you do not know who has been chosen, so just preach to everyone." Thank goodness! Fancy working hard/risking your life to preach the Gospel and then find out it had all been a waste because the person you are talking to hasn't been chosen for salvation.

So if God loves everyone without condition, there’d be no need for hell.

Except that some will not accept God's love, forgiveness and reconciliation through Christ.
Paul said to the Corinthians "we implore you on Christ's behalf; be reconciled to God", 2 Corinthians 5:20 - he was urging them to accept God's salvation, or to make sure they had accepted it.
Otherwise the message of the Gospels might just as well be, "live your life however you wish and believe whatever you like; of God has chosen you for salvation, you'll be saved regardless. If he hasn't chosen you, whatever you do is irrelevant because you're going to hell anyway."
That's not love.

 

[Grip Docility]

No it doesn't.
Hell is complete separation from God; people are in hell after they die if they died in their sins, rejected God's grace, mercy and love and continued to live for themselves and try to save themselves.
As I've said, if someone is not reconciled to God when they die, if they do not have forgiveness of sins and new life through Jesus, then they cannot be with God. And because there is life after death, they will continue to exist, for all eternity, in a state of being without God and with no prospect of forgiveness for their sins.

If you don't believe in the concept of human choice, or being able to decide to respond to Jesus' invitations and accept God's free gift of eternal life, then you are left with salvation on God's whim - "I'll choose you, but not you". I don't see that in Scripture, I see a God who says "Everyone who comes/believes/receives/eats "etc. Not everyone will come, respond to the invitation or accept that Jesus died for them. Some may never hear, some may hear, but think "that's not for me; I'm unworthy/not good enough/have committed x sin". Some may hear this invitation but don't believe it; they don't believe they need to come to Jesus to be saved, they believe that God loves and will save everyone and their good deeds are good enough. Or they may feel they don't need saving at all, that their bad deeds have not been bad enough. Some might refuse, point blank, to think about God at all, and that might be because they are confusing God with the church, have been badly let down by the church, or cannot accept a god who, they believe, causes suffering.
It's easy to dismiss such people and claim that they were never chosen, (I'm not saying you're doing that), or that they weren't predestined to believe, but I don't believe that it's accurate.

If you adopt the scenario of salvation being random and it's up to God to choose which of us to save, then it must make for a rather uncertain life; "am I chosen or not, could I be deselected if I mess up enough times/miss God's plan for my life?" If God can choose on a whim then presumably he can change his mind, also on a whim.
Jesus told us to go and make disciples and to be his witnesses - he did not say "God only loves a few and you do not know who has been chosen, so just preach to everyone." Thank goodness! Fancy working hard/risking your life to preach the Gospel and then find out it had all been a waste because the person you are talking to hasn't been chosen for salvation.



Except that some will not accept God's love, forgiveness and reconciliation through Christ.
Paul said to the Corinthians "we implore you on Christ's behalf; be reconciled to God", 2 Corinthians 5:20 - he was urging them to accept God's salvation, or to make sure they had accepted it.
Otherwise the message of the Gospels might just as well be, "live your life however you wish and believe whatever you like; of God has chosen you for salvation, you'll be saved regardless. If he hasn't chosen you, whatever you do is irrelevant because you're going to hell anyway."
That's not love.

This is exactly why I am deeply convicted that Satan can use Reformed Predestination doctrine to place doubt in a person’s mind!

Without knowing that God’s Love is immutable, a person may believe they aren’t “one of God’s”.

We see people doubt that God Loves them all the time on this site. We see people believe God is delighting in their suffering, because they think He hates them.

The thinking of the “God doesn’t Love all” crew is literally exalting their Salvational assurance, while stripping others of it.

Well Spoken!