God does not grant Faith

[dogs4thewin]

This can be PROVEN by the fact that EVERYONE has it? Thus, IF He were to grant it it would be at birth.

 

[Steeno7]

Does everyone have faith in Jesus Christ?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Does everyone have faith in Jesus Christ?

no, I did not say they did, but everyone has faith in SOMETHING or SOMEONE. Every time you go any now you have faith every time you sit in a chair you have faith.

 

[Steeno7]

no, I did not say they did, but everyone has faith in SOMETHING or SOMEONE. Every time you go any now you have faith every time you sit in a chair you have faith.

Yep.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Yep.

So I did not say that everyone has faith in Christ. You cannot believe in God, and yet have faith, however.

 

[OzSpen]

You cannot believe [pisteuo] in God, and yet have faith [pistis], however.

Sounds like a confusing statement to me when both pisteuo and pistis come from the same Greek root.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Sounds like a confusing statement to me when both pisteuo and pistis come from the same Greek root.

It's not confusing when one considers that "having faith" only means that one has put their trust into something, whatever that may be. It may be in a person, like Santa Claus, Muhammed, or Jesus Christ, or it could be in a chair, in a bridge, or whatever.

We all trust many different things. That's because God created humanity with an intellect with which to apply to life. Some put their trust/faith in good things, and some in bad things.

The issue of faith is always this: what is the object and what is the purpose?

 

[OzSpen]

It's not confusing when one considers that "having faith" only means that one has put their trust into something, whatever that may be. It may be in a person, like Santa Claus, Muhammed, or Jesus Christ, or it could be in a chair, in a bridge, or whatever.

We all trust many different things. That's because God created humanity with an intellect with which to apply to life. Some put their trust/faith in good things, and some in bad things.

The issue of faith is always this: what is the object and what is the purpose?

You didn't deal with the point I raised: pisteuo and pistis come from the same Greek root.

 

[Devorim]

G-d gives faith in Him, not at birth, but long before birth according to the Scriptures. Those to whom He gives it will never lose it

 

[talitha]

God does grant faith. That is scriptural. Your faith icon says you are a Christian, so I am assuming you believe the Bible.....
He gives to all men a measure of faith.....
There is also the manifestation of faith.....

 

[OzSpen]

G-d gives faith in Him, not at birth, but long before birth according to the Scriptures. Those to whom He gives it will never lose it

But you provided not one Scripture to support this statement. How about some Scriptures?

 

[sdowney717]

But you provided not one Scripture to support this statement. How about some Scriptures?

2 Tim 1
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God,

9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

For those whom Christ saves, that saving grace was given to them before time began, so then long before their birth.

'which was given to us' , that is personal, something God did for those He has saved, election, and predestination to know Christ.

And we see this was according to the predetermined counsel of God Himself that He chose to give 'us' who are the saved, His grace before we were born. That grace must also include our faith, because we do become saved, all those He has given to of His grace to know Christ, or there would be some ambiguity, uncertainty in the outcome.. and we read this was

'according to His own purpose'. So then there is certainty of salvation to be realized in the fulness of time for when God is pleased to choose to reveal His Son in us.

 

[OzSpen]

2 Tim 1
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God,

9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

For those whom Christ saves, that saving grace was given to them before time began, so then long before their birth.

'which was given to us' , that is personal, something God did for those He has saved, election, and predestination to know Christ.

And we see this was according to the predetermined counsel of God Himself that He chose to give 'us' who are the saved, His grace before we were born. That grace must also include our faith, because we do become saved, all those He has given to of His grace to know Christ, or there would be some ambiguity, uncertainty in the outcome.. and we read this was

'according to His own purpose'. So then there is certainty of salvation to be realized in the fulness of time for when God is pleased to choose to reveal His Son in us.

The noun pistis or the verb pisteuo does not appear in the verses you have cited. You have inferred, without providing the evidence of direct statement.

 

[Devorim]

But you provided not one Scripture to support this statement. How about some Scriptures?

'cause I was at work, on break, and my boss interrupted me. He's nice -- he's excused.

Our L-rd said to Jeremiah himself, 1:5 ESV “before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

To us all, He said in John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

And in Ephesians 1:4, "just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him."

Sorry about not giving this in my first post. Another reason I didn't go into detail is because many don't believe this, so I was a little hesitant to write it at all, because my intention was not to inflame.

 

[OzSpen]

Devorim,

'cause I was at work, on break, and my boss interrupted me. He's nice -- he's excused.

Our L-rd said to Jeremiah himself, 1:5 ESV “before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

To us all, He said in John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

And in Ephesians 1:4, "just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him."

Sorry about not giving this in my first post. Another reason I didn't go into detail is because many don't believe this, so I was a little hesitant to write it at all, because my intention was not to inflame.

I don't think Jer 1:5 is applicable as it refers to a special call to Jeremiah to be a prophet.

As for the other 2 verses, I don't think they provide evidence for what you stated at #9.

Oz

 

[South Bound]

no, I did not say they did, but everyone has faith in SOMETHING or SOMEONE. Every time you go any now you have faith every time you sit in a chair you have faith.

But that's not what we mean when we talk about God granting saving faith through the effectual calling and regeneration.

Anybody can have faith in a chair. Faith in God, on the other hand, is another story.

The carnal man is at enmity with God and does not and cannot have saving faith on his own, unless God grants it to him.

 

[Job8]

G-d gives faith in Him, not at birth, but long before birth according to the Scriptures. Those to whom He gives it will never lose it

Not true. Faith -- saving faith -- is generated by the Word of God (the Gospel). See Rom 10:14-17. That is the whole point of preaching the Gospel. The Word of God is the "seed" for the New Birth (1 Pet 1:23, and other passages).

The Holy Spirit is the One who uses the Gospel to bring sinners to faith and repentance, and then gives them the New Birth (Tit 3:4-7).

Faith does not come pre-packaged as you believe, and there is not a single Scripture that will support your belief. If that were true the preaching of the Gospel would not be necessary.

 

[Devorim]

G-d gives faith in Him, not at birth, but long before birth according to the Scriptures. Those to whom He gives it will never lose it

...Our L-rd said to Jeremiah himself, 1:5 ESV “before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

To us all, He said in John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

And in Ephesians 1:4, "just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him."...

Devorim,

I don't think Jer 1:5 is applicable as it refers to a special call to Jeremiah to be a prophet.

I would think that is obvious. Still, I brought it up. Perhaps you did not notice.

As for the other 2 verses, I don't think they provide evidence for what you stated at #9.

Oz

Seriously? One can believe in G-d without having faith in Him? He can choose us as holy and blameless before the foundation of the world but not give us faith?

 

[Devorim]

Not true. Faith -- saving faith -- is generated by the Word of God (the Gospel). See Rom 10:14-17. That is the whole point of preaching the Gospel. The Word of God is the "seed" for the New Birth (1 Pet 1:23, and other passages).

The Holy Spirit is the One who uses the Gospel to bring sinners to faith and repentance, and then gives them the New Birth (Tit 3:4-7).

Faith does not come pre-packaged as you believe, and there is not a single Scripture that will support your belief. If that were true the preaching of the Gospel would not be necessary.

I understand that some of us don't believe that we are saved from the foundation of the world. No problem for me. I was Arminian (can you believe it??) for nearly half of a decade, and now, I am learning about Reformed doctrines, tulips, Calvin, five points on both sides, and more. Again, no problem for me.

 

[OzSpen]

Seriously? One can believe in G-d without having faith in Him? He can choose us as holy and blameless before the foundation of the world but not give us faith?

Your statement in #9 was, 'G-d gives faith in Him, not at birth, but long before birth according to the Scriptures. Those to whom He gives it will never lose it'

I was expecting your verses to relate directly to this statement and they didn't.