God does not desire to save the Reprobate.

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JM

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Osage, I'm going to unsubscribe from this thread. It has deteriorated into another large font/quoting scripture out of context thread...again. It seems to happen a lot in the Baptist forum, ripping scriptures from their context and posting them with assumptions about their meaning.

jm
 
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bottomofsandal

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There is no well meant offer for someone who God has set apart as a vessel of wrath.

Christ did not die for the reprobate.

The Holy Spirit will not regenerate he reprobate.

The reprobate is accursed.

Here is an outstanding article on the subject.

Does God Really Desire to Save the Reprobate?
This is a hard teaching and monumentally sobering to realize that God for His pleasure and will creates some men who will be UNsaved. To portray God as a sadisitic tyrant who somehow derives cosmic joy by condemning some men is blasphemous and uninformed. The fact that all men deserve condemnation is agreeable, but the possibility that some men never get a chance at salvation raises doubts about God's "fairness".


God desires to show His mercy. Yet, some will ask why God is not merciful to all men ? Who has a right to question God ? What is boils down to is man in his "wisdom" says... if I were God I would do it differently. God's choice is offensive to some because they cannot explain it or contain it. Most importantly to some men is the self-realization that as a man they have a greater sense of equality than God !!!


Do angels or other Heavenly beings scrutinize God's activities ? Do angels comment and theorize about God's judgements ? The angels long to look into these things. Mankind sinned and some were saved, but their fellow angels who rebelled were afforded no mercy whatsoever. Maybe the angels should complain to God about His favoritism ? The angels rejoice over one sinner ! Are the angels worried about the unsaved ones ? When the trumpet blows and the angels gather the elect, do they feel like God has done something wrong by not saving everyone or giving all men a "fair" opportunity for salvation ?


Some believe so...:waaah:
 
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Blessedj01

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This is a hard teaching and monumentally sobering to realize that God for His pleasure and will creates some men who will be UNsaved.

Dude, you're just looking at it the wrong way cos you love your doctrine more than you love the Bible. Yes, God makes men who WILL be unsaved. Doesn't mean He didn't TRY to save them. God makes it very clear that some people won't accept His grace. Does that mean he intentionally made them TO BE unsaved? No. I don't think it does. I think this really speaks more about the nature of man than it does about the nature of God.
 
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gideons300

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Here is what bothers me with the endless debate about doctrine, whether it be predestination vs. armeninism, or whether water baptism is required for salvation, or fill in the blank with whatever our pet doctrine is we want to "discuss".

It reveals where are minds are- we are still eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thinking that if we just get all the tumblers lined up on the vault of truth that it will unlock the lock to abiding in God. We think knowledge is the key to godliness, and assume we just need to stuff more and moire inside our brains nd eventually, it will work and we will be "good Christians", and we will be like Him. Fellas, ladies, it simply is a lie. It is, in reality, just another of our laps around Sinai. We are ever learning, never able to understnd that we are stilll trying to clean our insides from outside, by self discipline, by Bible knowledge, by going to the correct church, by stopping doing all those bad things we do, and in the end, we are still the same- earthbound. We are still flesh, and God has spoken clearly that they that are in the flesh CANNOT please God.

Why? Why is is that we draw near Him with our lips but our hearts, our hearts are unmoved as to the need in this last day, a generation of men and women walking as light in the Lord, filled with the fullness of God, who can display to an unbelieving world the truth of the gospel, that Christ will set us free, free from our old rotten nature, free from sin that besets, free from condemnation, free to talking the talk but not walking the walk. Free indeed.

How we want to postpone that dreaded day, the day we finally say "I surrender all" and actually understand what that means, the fullness of the death He wants us to walk THROUGH to get to real life. Our own self nature has lied to us, so that it might live another day. God says "Cast it off."

But until we despise who we have become, religious, but not righteous, happy but not joyful, doctrinally correct, but not doctrinally corrected, content but without godliness, until we see that we are like the Laodecians...poor and blind and naked, and we know it not.... we will walk on in our religious prisons, thankful that our sentences have been pardoned, while remaining in our prison cells clanging our chains together singing "This little light of mine", and all the while the prison gate sits wide open and yet we refuse to enjoy our liberty.

Brothers, it is for FREEDOM that Christ has set us free, nothing less, and yes, it is for THIS life. We are bound to a fleshly body till our master comes, no doubt, but we are NOT tied to our fleshly spirit. God's word is clear. Who will truly hear?

Our old natures love to discuss, to argue, to tell the other how wrong they are, to take pride in that yes, we are still sinners, but boy do we have some revelation knowledge about God!

The world looks at us, how we are living out our lives in front of them, and matching up our words with our lives, our hearts. As long as they see a huge gap, hypocrisy rules, blindness still has the day and we are not saved from ourselves. And as a result, they are not saved either.

We must be free in order to liberate! Does that not make sense? Will we continue to try to comfort ourselves with our human understanding, trying as best we can to cover our sins, our rebellion, our continued existence in the flesh, with biblical knowledge, with correct Bible words on our lips? It damns us MORE, not less. Do we comprehend that fact?

Religious pride is at the root of it all, a pride that says "You and me, God" when God whispers back, "No, my son, just me. But you will learn."

In Abraham's day, when two went into agreement, they "cut a covenant". It was a blood oath and animals were sacrificed and split in half. The halves were then laid in two long lines and the two making the agreement walked between the pieces, signifying by oath that each would do their part in the covenant to keep it, under penalty of blood.

When Abraham, who is the father of faith, cut his covenant with God, a covenant of faith, they slaughtered the animals and split them as was the custom. But then God deviated from pattern. He put Abraham into a deep sleep and walked the pieces...alone. He knew the limitations of our humanness, and He knew the amazing depth of grace, and therefore guaranteed not only to do His part in the covenant, but also OUR part as well.

Do we understand the depth of grace? Do we see how corruptible our flesh really is, how stubborn it is, how it refuses to bend, or to yield, or to submit. It will adapt to any form you desire, as long as it does not have to die. God knew the new covenant could not be like the old one was. God knew the weakness was our part of the bargain, not His. So He took it upon Himself to insure that we would do ours just as He fulfills His. Glorious God!

Blessings,

Gideon
 
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bottomofsandal

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Dude, you're just looking at it the wrong way cos you love your doctrine more than you love the Bible. Yes, God makes men who WILL be unsaved. Doesn't mean He didn't TRY to save them. God makes it very clear that some people won't accept His grace. Does that mean he intentionally made them TO BE unsaved? No. I don't think it does. I think this really speaks more about the nature of man than it does about the nature of God.
What is the outcome of The Bible ? Are all men saved ? It has NOTHING to do with a doctrine or belief...it is what happens, isn't it ? Or do you know something that the rest of us don't know ?


You make God sound like a pathetic, powerless, illusory charlatan. Furthermore, God is a liar and a fraud ! If God said that He was saving all men, then He has been exposed as a colossal deceiver due to the reality that only some men are saved.



Maybe God should TRY harder ? Is that the solution ? God only gave a half a** effort, and if He would have been more effective, more men would have been saved ? WOW...this just sounds incredulous bro !!! What can we say to God to cause Him to exert more effort and be efficacious ? I will give Him a good chastening for not doing more to save men !



Oh, man did not accept Him you now say ? Which is it then ? God not really trying or man refusing to accept ? The fact is God made some men who He knew would be UNsaved, but He made them nonetheless. Maybe you don't like it, maybe you think it is UN-Godlike, but it is what God did.
 
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Blessedj01

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What is the outcome of The Bible ? Are all men saved ? It has NOTHING to do with a doctrine or belief...it is what happens, isn't it ? Or do you know something that the rest of us don't know ?
Far out...dare I say it but maybe I do? Maybe you shouldn't be looking at the "end result," as if God's offering you an equation to solve. No. We should be honest that salvation is for everyone, yet some people won't accept it.


You make God sound like a pathetic, powerless, illusory charlatan. Furthermore, God is a liar and a fraud ! If God said that He was saving all men, then He has been exposed as a colossal deceiver due to the reality that only some men are saved.
Nonsense, I say only the Truth. God is far from pathetic, powerless and ilusory. He has done a real work for EVERYBODY. He is no liar or fraud - WE ARE. He has not said he was "saving all men," but that all men -could- be saved through Him. What's wrong with that position bro?

Maybe God should TRY harder ? Is that the solution ? God only gave a half a** effort, and if He would have been more effective, more men would have been saved ? WOW...this just sounds incredulous bro !!! What can we say to God to cause Him to exert more effort and be efficacious ? I will give Him a good chastening for not doing more to save men !

Can you please not refer to God and donkeys in the same sentence? Wow, bro...men HAVE been saved because of God. Are you forgetting that? Isn't that what we celebrate? We don't celebrate the men who weren't saved, we celebrate the men who were because of God's grace. God has already made a full, effective atonement for all sin - however, pride still plays a place in humanity and not everyone wants to have that atonement. Thank God we do! Don't mock him please!

Oh, man did not accept Him you now say ? Which is it then ? God not really trying or man refusing to accept ? The fact is God made some men who He knew would be UNsaved, but He made them nonetheless. Maybe you don't like it, maybe you think it is UN-Godlike, but it is what God did.
Man refusing to accept. Does that hurt your pride or something? 'Cos at the end of the day, even after we accept Jesus we still deny him, just as the crow [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] three times. There's nothing for us to brag about.

Yes God made men who he knew ould be unsaved, but he didn't make them TO BE unsaved. That's where we differ obviously!
 
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bottomofsandal

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Blessedj01 said:
Yes God made men who he knew ould be unsaved, but he didn't make them TO BE unsaved. That's where we differ obviously!

So, we get to the same place on different paths...

One way God predestined, preordained, predetermined, and by His holy will decided to do a work on the earth and save a peculiar people with grace and mercy. With certainty, and without conflict within Himself, God did a work in man to show His glory.

Matthew 25:34

New King James Version (NKJV)

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:




OR, God made a possibility for something to happen if man will only cooperate with The Divine. A spiritually deaf, dumb, and blind man, who absolutely hates and despises God and His Holiness, somehow in some way, has to make an eternal choice.


This pov illustrates a conflicted God. God is trying to save man, but God must repect man's freewill because this is the definition of real love. Real love therefore loves these men right into hell. This pov has a God with His hands tied behind His back, waiting and hoping man will make an eternal choice when the man is unaware such a dilemma is before him. This pov needs no grace, only man's astute decision making abilities.
 
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Blessedj01

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So, we get to the same place on different paths...

One way God predestined, preordained, predetermined, and by His holy will decided to do a work on the earth and save a peculiar people with grace and mercy. With certainty, and without conflict within Himself, God did a work in man to show His glory.

Matthew 25:34

New King James Version (NKJV)

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:




OR, God made a possibility for something to happen if man will only cooperate with The Divine. A spiritually deaf, dumb, and blind man, who absolutely hates and despises God and His Holiness, somehow in some way, has to make an eternal choice.


This pov illustrates a conflicted God. God is trying to save man, but God must repect man's freewill because this is the definition of real love. Real love therefore loves these men right into hell. This pov has a God with His hands tied behind His back, waiting and hoping man will make an eternal choice when the man is unaware such a dilemma is before him. This pov needs no grace, only man's astute decision making abilities.

No, we're not at the same place. 'Cos you're saying God made certain people ONLY to punish them.
 
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bottomofsandal

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No, we're not at the same place. 'Cos you're saying God made certain people ONLY to punish them.
NOPE...never said that !

I/No one has said God made some UNsaved just to punish them.

God chose to save some and passed over others.


PRAISE GOD FOR HIS GLORIOUS GIFT !!!:bow:
 
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Osage Bluestem

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Blessedj01 said:
Sorry, I edited my post. Reading now.

edit: I read it. So what's your point? Sounds like you think we should just stop preaching altogether.

Let's stop loving. In fact, let's stop going to church. God's already sorted it out right? He doesn't want us to preach Him to all the nations, so let's not bother right?

From this (Romans 9) I do not get the impression that God's salvation is not for everybody. I simply understand that it will not BE CHOSEN by everybody.

We preach the gospel to glorify God, save his elect, and harden the reprobate.

It is preached to everyone because it deserves to be. Christians love everyone and pray for everyone. We won't hate the reprobate until after our sanctification when we are conformed to the image of Christ. Then we will all applaud God's wisdom as they are cast into hell.
 
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gideons300

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We preach the gospel to glorify God, save his elect, and harden the reprobate.

It is preached to everyone because it deserves to be. Christians love everyone and pray for everyone. We won't hate the reprobate until after our sanctification when we are conformed to the image of Christ. Then we will all applaud God's wisdom as they are cast into hell.
Brother, can you show me scripturally where we are instructed by the presenting of the love of God through the glorious gospel of God to harden and not soften hearts that have not yet heard the truth of Jesus?

As we ourselves have not yet finished running our own good race, nor completed our own course, nor been made perfect in love, nor had our own obedience perfected, does it not seem a bit premature to talk about applauding as people drop into an eternity without light, without God? Do we even comprehend the spirit that says such a thing so casually that it rolls off our tongues like chit chat over coffee? There is much danger of spiritual pride here that more reminds me of the pharisees who were rebuked by Jesus for neglecting the weightier matters of the law, mercy and justice and faith, and all of these work by love?

When someone who is in sin and far away from the saving grace of God hears such words as you espouse, do you think this draws them to the Lord or makes them want to run from such a people who do little to help them see the light of salvation, but will fight for front row seats at their demise? It is called hypocrisy, and reminds me of the crowd at the coliseum awaiting the feeding of the lions. Which side are we on anyway. I thought love was the way to overcome evil, was I in error?

Do we offer hope to them, or a certainty of an eternity with no end to the punishment. Are we presently loving them into the kingdom as best we can, or are we content to simply look at the big picture, sidestep the requirent to love others as Jesus does until that day, and instead count them as they fall into the pit? If our hearts are not pure in these words, they might be the truth but they will damn us as well.

Perhaps on that day, when the fullness of disobedience and rebellion of self is made totally manifest, we will, as you say, applaud their receiving their inheritance of despair, but brother, now is NOT the time to discuss it, much less seem anxious for it. It is time to figure out how to get ourselves the pure hearts we are each required to have to see God, to make sure we put not one stumbling block before a sinner seeking truth. Unless we live out the truth of the liberty Christ died to give us, we present a false Christ to others seeking, for they will look ar OUR lives and say "No thanks" and shall we blame them? Their blood is on our hands if we have a word- only truth, but not one that penetrates our hardened hearts.

This cavalier attitude toward the potentially lost can bring about no fruit and is in fact a danger to ourselves to look into, until our hearts are pure and our obedience is made complete. It makes none seek Him deeper, it encourages others to attempt to ascend to that level of understanding God in His wrath, but having not been swallowed up by His love first, this is dangerous indeed.

Blessings,

Gideon
 
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twin1954

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Brother, can you show me scripturally where we are instructed by the presenting of the love of God through the glorious gospel of God to harden and not soften hearts that have not yet heard the truth of Jesus?

As we ourselves have not yet finished running our own good race, nor completed our own course, nor been made perfect in love, nor had our own obedience perfected, does it not seem a bit premature to talk about applauding as people drop into an eternity without light, without God? Do we even comprehend the spirit that says such a thing so casually that it rolls off our tongues like chit chat over coffee? There is much danger of spiritual pride here that more reminds me of the pharisees who were rebuked by Jesus for neglecting the weightier matters of the law, mercy and justice and faith, and all of these work by love?

When someone who is in sin and far away from the saving grace of God hears such words as you espouse, do you think this draws them to the Lord or makes them want to run from such a people who do little to help them see the light of salvation, but will fight for front row seats at their demise? It is called hypocrisy, and reminds me of the crowd at the coliseum awaiting the feeding of the lions. Which side are we on anyway. I thought love was the way to overcome evil, was I in error?

Do we offer hope to them, or a certainty of an eternity with no end to the punishment. Are we presently loving them into the kingdom as best we can, or are we content to simply look at the big picture, sidestep the requirent to love others as Jesus does until that day, and instead count them as they fall into the pit? If our hearts are not pure in these words, they might be the truth but they will damn us as well.

Perhaps on that day, when the fullness of disobedience and rebellion of self is made totally manifest, we will, as you say, applaud their receiving their inheritance of despair, but brother, now is NOT the time to discuss it, much less seem anxious for it. It is time to figure out how to get ourselves the pure hearts we are each required to have to see God, to make sure we put not one stumbling block before a sinner seeking truth. Unless we live out the truth of the liberty Christ died to give us, we present a false Christ to others seeking, for they will look ar OUR lives and say "No thanks" and shall we blame them? Their blood is on our hands if we have a word- only truth, but not one that penetrates our hardened hearts.

This cavalier attitude toward the potentially lost can bring about no fruit and is in fact a danger to ourselves to look into, until our hearts are pure and our obedience is made complete. It makes none seek Him deeper, it encourages others to attempt to ascend to that level of understanding God in His wrath, but having not been swallowed up by His love first, this is dangerous indeed.

Blessings,

Gideon
The most dangerous thing we can do for the sinner is to tell him that God loves him and has a wonderful plan for his life. By doing so we not only misrepresent the love of God but give the sinner hope that the Scriptures never give them. The Scriptures never once tell the rebel sinner that the love of God abides on him, they do clearly tell him that as long as he remains in unblief and rebellion he has no hope in the love of God. John the Baptist plainly says, as do Christ and the Apostles, that it isn't the love of God that abides on the unbeliever but the wrath of God. John 3:36.

The false gospel of God's love is a damning lie straight out of Hell. Satan is gleeful whenever we tell a stiffnecked obstinate God hating sinner that God loves him and wants to save him if he will only let Him. It is not only dishonoring to God but a lie.

Those whom God loves He sends the Gospel to in the power of the Spirit giving life and faith in Christ. To preach the Gospel is to tell sinners that God's love is in His Son and only in His Son. We preach Christ and Him crucified and leave the rest to God.

I don't concern myself with who God loves because that is up to Him. I do concern myself that men do great harm to the wonder and glory of the love of God by telling God hating rebels that He loves them.
I also concern myself that much more harm is done to the souls of men by this false gospel of God's universal love than we could ever do.

To teach or preach that God loves all men without exception not only is a blatant denial of the plain statements of the Scriptures but destroys the love of God and makes it meaningless.

I perceive that you desire to teach folks, as is evident from your many long posts, but you first need to learn the truth of God before you can teach it. You can't tell what you don't know.
 
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reformed ttL

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The most dangerous thing we can do for the sinner is to tell him that God loves him and has a wonderful plan for his life. By doing so we not only misrepresent the love of God but give the sinner hope that the Scriptures never give them. The Scriptures never once tell the rebel sinner that the love of God abides on him, they do clearly tell him that as long as he remains in unblief and rebellion he has no hope in the love of God. John the Baptist plainly says, as do Christ and the Apostles, that it isn't the love of God that abides on the unbeliever but the wrath of God. John 3:36.

The false gospel of God's love is a damning lie straight out of Hell. Satan is gleeful whenever we tell a stiffnecked obstinate God hating sinner that God loves him and wants to save him if he will only let Him. It is not only dishonoring to God but a lie.

Those whom God loves He sends the Gospel to in the power of the Spirit giving life and faith in Christ. To preach the Gospel is to tell sinners that God's love is in His Son and only in His Son. We preach Christ and Him crucified and leave the rest to God.

I don't concern myself with who God loves because that is up to Him. I do concern myself that men do great harm to the wonder and glory of the love of God by telling God hating rebels that He loves them.
I also concern myself that much more harm is done to the souls of men by this false gospel of God's universal love than we could ever do.

To teach or preach that God loves all men without exception not only is a blatant denial of the plain statements of the Scriptures but destroys the love of God and makes it meaningless.

I perceive that you desire to teach folks, as is evident from your many long posts, but you first need to learn the truth of God before you can teach it. You can't tell what you don't know.
that.. my friend is well said :thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
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WinBySurrender

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The most dangerous thing we can do for the sinner is to tell him that God loves him and has a wonderful plan for his life. By doing so we not only misrepresent the love of God but give the sinner hope that the Scriptures never give them. The Scriptures never once tell the rebel sinner that the love of God abides on him, they do clearly tell him that as long as he remains in unblief and rebellion he has no hope in the love of God. John the Baptist plainly says, as do Christ and the Apostles, that it isn't the love of God that abides on the unbeliever but the wrath of God. John 3:36.

The false gospel of God's love is a damning lie straight out of Hell. Satan is gleeful whenever we tell a stiffnecked obstinate God hating sinner that God loves him and wants to save him if he will only let Him. It is not only dishonoring to God but a lie.

Those whom God loves He sends the Gospel to in the power of the Spirit giving life and faith in Christ. To preach the Gospel is to tell sinners that God's love is in His Son and only in His Son. We preach Christ and Him crucified and leave the rest to God.

I don't concern myself with who God loves because that is up to Him. I do concern myself that men do great harm to the wonder and glory of the love of God by telling God hating rebels that He loves them.
I also concern myself that much more harm is done to the souls of men by this false gospel of God's universal love than we could ever do.

To teach or preach that God loves all men without exception not only is a blatant denial of the plain statements of the Scriptures but destroys the love of God and makes it meaningless.

I perceive that you desire to teach folks, as is evident from your many long posts, but you first need to learn the truth of God before you can teach it. You can't tell what you don't know.
You need to take a chill pill, calm down and get into some serious Bible study. Where in the name of all that is good and right did you get this nonsense? You are presenting only one side of God's character and ignoring His deity. God hates, yes -- but without malice. God loves, absolutely -- but without partiality. You obviously don't understand that. Nor have you read Matthew.

Matthew 5
43 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'
44 "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 "For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47 "If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
48 "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Or do you think God holds Himself to a lesser standard that He holds man? Get out of the 17th century and join us here in the 21st.
 
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twin1954

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You need to take a chill pill, calm down and get into some serious Bible study. Where in the name of all that is good and right did you get this nonsense? You are presenting only one side of God's character and ignoring His deity. God hates, yes -- but without malice. God loves, absolutely -- but without partiality. You obviously don't understand that. Nor have you read Matthew.
Matthew 5
43 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'
44 "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 "For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47 "If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
48 "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Or do you think God holds Himself to a lesser standard that He holds man? Get out of the 17th century and join us here in the 21st.
For your information I do serious Bible study on a constant basis. Daily in fact. I have presented the Biblical view without man's spin on it that makes man the end of everything.

God can tell us to love all because we are in need of love from others but He doesn't need anything from us. It isn't a standard that God is under. God's love is one of the most wonderful and glorious aspects of His charachter. His love is consistent with all His other attributes and is in full accord with His nature. But love isn't the definition of who He is. His love accomplishes the best for all that He loves. To say that He loves those whom He destroys in everlasting destruction is to make His love a useless amd meaningless emotion just like ours.
Why don't you quit trying to be God's judge?

BTW I know that I am called of God to teach and preach His Gospel because He has put me in it without me ever having to seek it. I take that responsibility very seriously and know that I will answer to God for what I say to men. I have no fear of standing before God and givimg an answer for what I preach and teach.
 
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gideons300

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The most dangerous thing we can do for the sinner is to tell him that God loves him and has a wonderful plan for his life. By doing so we not only misrepresent the love of God but give the sinner hope that the Scriptures never give them. The Scriptures never once tell the rebel sinner that the love of God abides on him, they do clearly tell him that as long as he remains in unblief and rebellion he has no hope in the love of God. John the Baptist plainly says, as do Christ and the Apostles, that it isn't the love of God that abides on the unbeliever but the wrath of God. John 3:36.

The false gospel of God's love is a damning lie straight out of Hell. Satan is gleeful whenever we tell a stiffnecked obstinate God hating sinner that God loves him and wants to save him if he will only let Him. It is not only dishonoring to God but a lie.

Those whom God loves He sends the Gospel to in the power of the Spirit giving life and faith in Christ. To preach the Gospel is to tell sinners that God's love is in His Son and only in His Son. We preach Christ and Him crucified and leave the rest to God.

I don't concern myself with who God loves because that is up to Him. I do concern myself that men do great harm to the wonder and glory of the love of God by telling God hating rebels that He loves them.
I also concern myself that much more harm is done to the souls of men by this false gospel of God's universal love than we could ever do.

To teach or preach that God loves all men without exception not only is a blatant denial of the plain statements of the Scriptures but destroys the love of God and makes it meaningless.

I perceive that you desire to teach folks, as is evident from your many long posts, but you first need to learn the truth of God before you can teach it. You can't tell what you don't know.
Brother, I doubt sincerely that you have read what I share, for the truth of the matter is, I agree with you. God hates sin. Period. God desires holiness in all. Period. God detests pride and stubbornness. Period. No matter where it is found.

Now, with that said, God hates it in people who have become Christians more than those in the world. To whom much is given, much is required, amen? We are His sons and daughters, and we have no excuse for our continued sins, none. If we think we can continue to do the same things that the world does, yet at some future appointed day we will be swept up into bliss and they into damnation, then our blindness and hardness of heart has reached a new level of insanity.

God expects stiff necked rebellion in the world and it does not surprise Him when it is found. But He has far greater hopes for a people called by His name, and we have blasphemed His Holy name with our religion and arrogance. Do you think I exaggerate? I suggest you read Exekiel 36 and 37 prayerfully. We are spoken of there. God makes it plain it is to those who have received the new covenant but not the blessing from it.

We are content with our sin covering, and use forgiveness as a license to sin, just as surely as the Catholics sold indulgences to those wanting to "flesh out" on occasion. Our hearts no longer break when we fall into sin, and frankly, it really doesn't bother us anymore. We have grown dangerously close to believing "Let us sin that grace may abound" but we don't have the nerve to admit how calloused we are to sin still in our lives. Thank God that too is forgiven, right?

Our trust in our God to keep us from flling is simply non-existant. We recite our mantra "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven" ad nauseum and no one aims for holiness or righteousness since none believe it is attainable anyway. We are Laodecia, and just like the originals, we do not know that we are poor and blind and naked and pitiful in His sight. We still walk as men in the flesh, knowing nothing of the new creation, Christ inside us and we repeat the pharisee spirit even while claiming Jesus is Lord.

We are stiffnecked and refuse to blush for our religious shallowness, for our blatant unbelief in the promises of God, for our worldly spirits that live exactly like those around us, materialism is king, and we are found heaping up as much treasure as possible, revealing exactly where are real treasure is. Our unburdened hearts as the judgement approaches shows how far we have fallen and we are sound asleep. Oh, our heads are full but our prayer closets are empty, and no one ask why this is.

May we awaken before it is too late, and may God have mercy upon us and awaken us to the power of God who can set us free from.....US.

Blessings,

Gideon
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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I hate these type posts, as if the poster has some special insight that we have all have not discerned.

We are all reprobates. But for the grace of God go I. There are none who are righteous, no not one, so says the word of God.

Can we please stop the childish insights and epiphanies ?
 
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twin1954

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Brother, I doubt sincerely that you have read what I share, for the truth of the matter is, I agree with you. God hates sin. Period. God desires holiness in all. Period. God detests pride and stubbornness. Period. No matter where it is found.

Now, with that said, God hates it in people who have become Christians more than those in the world. To whom much is given, much is required, amen? We are His sons and daughters, and we have no excuse for our continued sins, none. If we think we can continue to do the same things that the world does, yet at some future appointed day we will be swept up into bliss and they into damnation, then our blindness and hardness of heart has reached a new level of insanity.

God expects stiff necked rebellion in the world and it does not surprise Him when it is found. But He has far greater hopes for a people called by His name, and we have blasphemed His Holy name with our religion and arrogance. Do you think I exaggerate? I suggest you read Exekiel 36 and 37 prayerfully. We are spoken of there. God makes it plain it is to those who have received the new covenant but not the blessing from it.

We are content with our sin covering, and use forgiveness as a license to sin, just as surely as the Catholics sold indulgences to those wanting to "flesh out" on occasion. Our hearts no longer break when we fall into sin, and frankly, it really doesn't bother us anymore. We have grown dangerously close to believing "Let us sin that grace may abound" but we don't have the nerve to admit how calloused we are to sin still in our lives. Thank God that too is forgiven, right?

Our trust in our God to keep us from flling is simply non-existant. We recite our mantra "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven" ad nauseum and no one aims for holiness or righteousness since none believe it is attainable anyway. We are Laodecia, and just like the originals, we do not know that we are poor and blind and naked and pitiful in His sight. We still walk as men in the flesh, knowing nothing of the new creation, Christ inside us and we repeat the pharisee spirit even while claiming Jesus is Lord.

We are stiffnecked and refuse to blush for our religious shallowness, for our blatant unbelief in the promises of God, for our worldly spirits that live exactly like those around us, materialism is king, and we are found heaping up as much treasure as possible, revealing exactly where are real treasure is. Our unburdened hearts as the judgement approaches shows how far we have fallen and we are sound asleep. Oh, our heads are full but our prayer closets are empty, and no one ask why this is.

May we awaken before it is too late, and may God have mercy upon us and awaken us to the power of God who can set us free from.....US.

Blessings,

Gideon
What you describe is religionists not believers. All believers look to Christ alone for all and enough and seek to honor Him in their lives. No exceptions.

What passes for "Christianity" today is nothing but another religion in the world.

Believers don't need to be whipped into shape or cajoled into acting and living right they simply do. They don't need a self appointed prophet to tell them what they need to do they need to hear of Christ in all His glorious person and work and it will enliven them to all the faithfuleness that is possible for them in this body of death. Believers don't need to be told to hate their sin they all do so. They don't need to be pushed into dying to the world they all natuarlly do. That is what it means to be born of God and made a new creation in Christ.

You are just espousing anpother aspect of religion I am afraid. If you want to tell folks soemthing good tell them about Christ.
 
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gideons300

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What you describe is religionists not believers. All believers look to Christ alone for all and enough and seek to honor Him in their lives. No exceptions.

What passes for "Christianity" today is nothing but another religion in the world.

Believers don't need to be whipped into shape or cajoled into acting and living right they simply do. They don't need a self appointed prophet to tell them what they need to do they need to hear of Christ in all His glorious person and work and it will enliven them to all the faithfuleness that is possible for them in this body of death. Believers don't need to be told to hate their sin they all do so. They don't need to be pushed into dying to the world they all natuarlly do. That is what it means to be born of God and made a new creation in Christ.

You are just espousing anpother aspect of religion I am afraid. If you want to tell folks soemthing good tell them about Christ.
Well, all I can say here, is "what do you believe? Where does belief stop and work start?

Do you believe that sin shall not have dominion over you?

Do you believe you will be given a way of escape so when tempted, you do not fall, every time?

Do you believe that your shield of faith WILL quench ALL the fiery arrows of the enemy?

Do you believe that you are no longer in the flesh, but in the spirit, and that you owe the flesh NOTHING?
Do you believe that he that abideth in Him sinneth not?

I can list 40 of these if you like but this suffices for me to make a point. You are correct in your opening remark. Believers do not need to be whipped into shape, for they have come to the end of themselves and reached out to believe the promises of God so that they can become overcomers. The question before us now is "Who is a believer?"

Was the Laodecian church a real church, or just a bunch of tares? Did they need encouragement to not slack off, to believe the promise of God for a robe of Righteousness? Starting out in faith does not make one a believer. Believing the promises of God makes one though. If one sees no need to get all radical on the promises, and shows no desire to fight the good fight of faith, to have ever increasing faith, then perhaps he is a tare afterall. Time will tell.

Blessings,

Gideon
 
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Blessedj01

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God doesn't love the sinner? Right, so I guess this Christianity thing is useless then huh...

...off I go, because God doesn't love the sinner.

I think you're wrong about John 3:36's application to your arguement. God loves the sinner, or else He'd never bother with him in the first place. God is love, wrath, justice (all that) You can't have a God of wrath without having a God of love.

Wherever you found your Jesus, please put him back and follow my one.

My God offers human beings a free-gift of Love, because He knows they are all fallen and automatically opposed to Him. He shows them goodness and grace and He becomes our Savior if we choose Him.

God does love "you," yes YOU, that random guy you're telling me to lie to. God loves "you" more than we know it - because He went to die for "you", planned your salvation before you even came into this world, because He loves "you," despite knowing beforehand that you may not accept Him. Because THAT is unconditional love.
 
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