God creates evil...

[joshuanazar]

No God has not given us any of His authority. We are nothing but worms, maggots, and all authority has been given to Christ.

(Mat 11:27) All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.


(Joh 5:19) Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

(Joh 5:20) For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

(Joh 5:21) For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

(Joh 5:22) For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

(Joh 5:23) That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

(Joh 5:24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

(Joh 5:25) Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

(Joh 5:26) For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

(Joh 5:27) And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.


(Joh 17:1) These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

(Joh 17:2) As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

(Joh 17:3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.



As for knowledge it is up to God to reveal what He has determined for us.

(Deu 29:29) The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

But Jesus Christ has chosen to share his authority with us. I do not have the time to find the scriptures like you did, I wish I could but I am currently in a hurry. But has Christ not chosen us to be baptized into his body while he is the head? Are we not seated with him in heavenly places? Has he not given us his name to use (the same name at which every knee will bow and tongue confess his glory), saying that what ever we ask of the Father to ask in his name, to heal and cast out demons in his name? Does Paul not call us ambassadors of Christ, meaning that we carry the full weight of his authority? Doesn't the Bible also call us kings and priests, joint-heirs with Christ? Doesn't the Bible again say that "as Christ is so are we in the world"? Or when Jesus himself tells us that whatever we bind on earth is bound in heaven and whatever we loose on earth is loosed in heaven.

I am not saying that because we share Christ's authority that we can do whatever we want. Christ is still our head. We can only act with his authority when we act according to his will. And his will is clear, he wills for us to be healed in every aspect of our lives. He wills for everyone to receive his grace and fellowship. His will for us is only to prosper us and bring us closer to him.

 

[twin1954]

But Jesus Christ has chosen to share his authority with us. I do not have the time to find the scriptures like you did, I wish I could but I am currently in a hurry. But has Christ not chosen us to be baptized into his body while he is the head? Are we not seated with him in heavenly places? Has he not given us his name to use (the same name at which every knee will bow and tongue confess his glory), saying that what ever we ask of the Father to ask in his name, to heal and cast out demons in his name? Does Paul not call us ambassadors of Christ, meaning that we carry the full weight of his authority? Doesn't the Bible also call us kings and priests, joint-heirs with Christ? Doesn't the Bible again say that "as Christ is so are we in the world"? Or when Jesus himself tells us that whatever we bind on earth is bound in heaven and whatever we loose on earth is loosed in heaven.

I am not saying that because we share Christ's authority that we can do whatever we want. Christ is still our head. We can only act with his authority when we act according to his will. And his will is clear, he wills for us to be healed in every aspect of our lives. He wills for everyone to receive his grace and fellowship. His will for us is only to prosper us and bring us closer to him.

We share in the blessing of His authority but the authority is His alone. What you have posted seems more like Word of Faith teaching than Baptist.

No need to look up the passages I am very familiar with them. In order for you to take them as sharing in His authority you must take them from their context. I will speak to the last one because it is misused: 1John 4:17 is speaking about the fact that just as no longer bears the sin of His people we no longer bear our sin. We are without sin before God in this world.

 

[joshuanazar]

On the last question:
I do believe in what I have been given in the Word by the function of the Holy Spirit to guide and teach.

This still does not burden God any further than he wills for my understanding of his ways.

I must disagree that God is a Calvinist.
I would protest this statement based on the fact God is not subject to man,but man thinks he is.


Romans: 8. 33. Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.


Is God capable of laying aside our sins, and himself never seeing them again?

Are there any circumstances that are beyond God?

Could it be with in God's power to set aside his knowledge of predestination?

With God all things are possible.

I agree that God is not a Calvinist. I am not saying that they are wrong (I do not know), but God is outside of any denomination whatsoever. I know that these questions were not directed toward me but I would like to give the answers that has been given to me. Laying aside sins seems as if it is being implied that punishment is not necessary (if I am wrong for give me, it is just how I interpret that phrase). Now Jesus took the punishment for every sin so that he could forgive every single transgression, he then cast those sins into a place where they will never be remembered. So not only will he no longer see them but they will never enter into his mind ever again. Next question, God is limitless except for the limitations that he puts on himself. He could do anything, but the question is more of what WILL he do? And yes as far as I know he could set aside knowledge of predestination. Sometimes we assume that just because God knows that someone will reject him, that he will not still try to win that person's heart or that God might not even want that person. But God will's that everyone be saved. And I fully believe that he will still try to reach them. After all he knew Israel would reject Jesus but Jesus still went to the Jews. He could have came to the gentiles instead.

 

[joshuanazar]

We share in the blessing of His authority but the authority is His alone. What you have posted seems more like Word of Faith teaching than Baptist.

No need to look up the passages I am very familiar with them. In order for you to take them as sharing in His authority you must take them from their context. I will speak to the last one because it is misused: 1John 4:17 is speaking about the fact that just as no longer bears the sin of His people we no longer bear our sin. We are without sin before God in this world.

Are we in the Baptist forum? Forgive me I post in a bunch of different forums that I sometimes forget which one I am in. I am not Baptist, nor am I Word of Faith. I am just a Christian. Okay so it seems as our misunderstanding on authority is based off of us not exactly understanding what the other is saying. I see what you are saying in a new light so let me try to clearify my stance better. I agree the authority belongs to Christ. But since he has chosen us to receive his grace, we are able to use his authority according to his will. No where would this ever take anything away from him. You call it the blessing of his authority I just call it his authority, but I am confident that we are meaning the exact same thing. The source is Jesus, we are ambassadors seeking to fulfill his will.

As for 1 John 4:17, I am the type of person who believes that the Scriptures have layers, that they are alive and while the surface has it's primary message to be delivered, that there is still more depth to it. That is how we can continue to read the same book and always get something knew from it. I completely agree that the surface message is about being free from sin. However, looking at the verse from the view that as his body we are extensions of himself on earth, it is still in harmony with scripture. Now I firmly believe that the surface message is the primary message, but that does not make the other messages any less true.

 

[now faith]

I agree that God is not a Calvinist. I am not saying that they are wrong (I do not know), but God is outside of any denomination whatsoever. I know that these questions were not directed toward me but I would like to give the answers that has been given to me. Laying aside sins seems as if it is being implied that punishment is not necessary (if I am wrong for give me, it is just how I interpret that phrase). Now Jesus took the punishment for every sin so that he could forgive every single transgression, he then cast those sins into a place where they will never be remembered. So not only will he no longer see them but they will never enter into his mind ever again. Next question, God is limitless except for the limitations that he puts on himself. He could do anything, but the question is more of what WILL he do? And yes as far as I know he could set aside knowledge of predestination. Sometimes we assume that just because God knows that someone will reject him, that he will not still try to win that person's heart or that God might not even want that person. But God will's that everyone be saved. And I fully believe that he will still try to reach them. After all he knew Israel would reject Jesus but Jesus still went to the Jews. He could have came to the gentiles instead.

On the subject of sin in a Christians life.

Personally I do not view God's grace as a licence to sin.

Aside from the conviction of the Holy Spirit, if a person could ignore this their would be consequences.

The wages of sin is death,I believe if a person would stay in a sinfull state that God would remove his hedge from them.
Satan would then have a means of torment and ultimately death.
Would a person suffer Hell?
I do not know because personally I am led by the Spirit and repent of my wrongs.

I use the Context of Job to arrive at my conclusion,many would disagree.

Our sin debt Has been paid through Christ,but God has not changed the definition or results of sin.

Job: 1. 4. And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them. 5. And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

God did not simply allow Satan to breach the hedge,Jobs fear and lack of faith did.

 

[John Robie]

Job's fear and lack of faith? I think you must be reading the wrong story. It was because of his faith that he was tested.

 

[now faith]

Job's fear and lack of faith? I think you must be reading the wrong story. It was because of his faith that he was tested.

So I suppose it is God who tempts man to sin?

 

[John Robie]

So I suppose it is God who tempts man to sin?

I don't know why you'd suppose that.

 

[JesusFreak78]

God, our LORD, creates evil, as well as everything else. What do you think of that?

Isaiah 45
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. ​

I have opinions, and will allow others to post before I put in my 2¢ worth!

Isaiah 45:7
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these.

As probably many here has said already, it seems like translating it to calamity is a better translation. If we look at the context of Isaiah 45 (Isaiah 45:5-7), we see God is talking about natural phenomena like sun, light, and darkness.

Habakkuk 1:13 is a good verse to compare Isaiah 45:7 with, and see the verse can't be translated as evil.

 

[twin1954]

On the last question:
I do believe in what I have been given in the Word by the function of the Holy Spirit to guide and teach.

The Spirit uses the mouth of men to give light and understanding in the Scriptures. Yes He does sometimes just open it up to us but His normal way of communicating to us is by the means of preachers and teachers. If it weren't then why would we need them?

This still does not burden God any further than he wills for my understanding of his ways.

Nothing is a burden to God. Using language like this makes it seem as though you have a far too low view of God. Not saying that you do but how we talk about Him most often reveals what we think of Him. Our first thought when considering God is that He doesn't need us. He is completely fulfilled and self-sufficient in Himself. He is supreme and solitary in all His attributes and needs nothing from anyone or anything.

Our first thoughts of God should be one of awe and wonder, worship and fear.

I must disagree that God is a Calvinist.

I didn't say that God is a Calvinist I said that Calvinism is the truth of God.

I would protest this statement based on the fact God is not subject to man,but man thinks he is.

And Calvinism is the only system of theology that recognizes this truth.

Romans: 8. 33. Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.


Is God capable of laying aside our sins, and himself never seeing them again?

The answer is found in Rom. 3:26-28

(Rom 3:26) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


(Rom 3:27) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.


(Rom 3:28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

God is both just and righteous in putting away sin by the sacrifice of Christ.

Are there any circumstances that are beyond God?

Of course not because it is God who is in absolute sovereign control over all circumstances. Only what He has ordained comes to pass.

Could it be with in God's power to set aside his knowledge of predestination?

With God all things are possible.

No He couldn't lay aside His knowledge of predestination. For Him to do so would mean that there was no point in His predestinating. God doesn't do anything just offhand. God is a God of purpose and in His wise and omnipotent purpose He has determined before all things. What we see happening is only God in sovereign providence bringing about His purpose.

There are some things God can't do. He can't lie, be unrighteous or anything that would make Him no longer be God. He is bound, for lack of a better way to put it, by His nature as God. He must do that which His essence and being are.

 

[Avid]

... it seems like translating it to calamity is a better translation...

Truly? Even though evil means a lot more than just calamity??? The Hebrew word in Isa.45:7 and Hab.1:13 is "RA." The following is from Dr.C.I.Schofield's notes for Isa.45:7.

Heb. "ra" translated "sorrow," "wretchedness," "adversity," "afflictions," "calamities," but never translated sin. God created evil only in the sense that He made sorrow, wretchedness, etc., to be the sure fruits of sin.​

What your post claims is not in line with the way the Bible is translated.

... Habakkuk 1:13 is a good verse to compare Isaiah 45:7 with, and see the verse can't be translated as evil.

It is clear your comments are not based in scripture, but simply an opinion about scripture.

King James Version (Isaiah 45:7)
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

Webster's Revised King James Version (Isaiah 45:7)
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

American Standard Version (Isaiah 45:7)
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

Darby's Translation (Isaiah 45:7)
forming the light and creating darkness, making peace and creating evil: I, Jehovah, do all these things.

Young's Literal Translation (Isaiah 45:7)
Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I [am] Jehovah, doing all these things.'​

If it can't be, God would make sure it wouldn't be.

Romans 3
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.​

We should be sure our opinions are in line with God's word, instead of trying to find out how to make His word line up with our opinions.

 

[Avid]

Job's fear and lack of faith? I think you must be reading the wrong story. It was because of his faith that he was tested.

So true!!! God didn't say Job was sinful, or lacked faith.

God showed Job how he did not understand what God was doing, and how he was not in a place to correct God. God asked him if he was able to see the things God did to mange the the whole world, and if he was able to do any of them. God asked Job where he was when God built the Earth and the whole universe. A sobering lesson for each of us.

 

[JesusFreak78]

Truly? Even though evil means a lot more than just calamity??? The Hebrew word in Isa.45:7 and Hab.1:13 is "RA." The following is from Dr.C.I.Schofield's notes for Isa.45:7.

Heb. "ra" translated "sorrow," "wretchedness," "adversity," "afflictions," "calamities," but never translated sin. God created evil only in the sense that He made sorrow, wretchedness, etc., to be the sure fruits of sin.​

What your post claims is not in line with the way the Bible is translated.


It is clear your comments are not based in scripture, but simply an opinion about scripture.

King James Version (Isaiah 45:7)
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

Webster's Revised King James Version (Isaiah 45:7)
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

American Standard Version (Isaiah 45:7)
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

Darby's Translation (Isaiah 45:7)
forming the light and creating darkness, making peace and creating evil: I, Jehovah, do all these things.

Young's Literal Translation (Isaiah 45:7)
Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I [am] Jehovah, doing all these things.'​

If it can't be, God would make sure it wouldn't be.

Romans 3
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.​

We should be sure our opinions are in line with God's word, instead of trying to find out how to make His word line up with our opinions.

I agree with you, we should be sure our opinions are in line with God's Word. In my post, I quoted Isaiah 45:7 from the NASB translation, which does translate the Hebrew word ra as calamity.

The Hebrew word in Isa.45:7 and Hab.1:13 is "RA." The following is from Dr.C.I.Schofield's notes for Isa.45:7.

Heb. "ra" translated "sorrow," "wretchedness," "adversity," "afflictions," "calamities," but never translated sin. God created evil only in the sense that He made sorrow, wretchedness, etc., to be the sure fruits of sin.​

According to your own quote from Dr. C.I.Schoffield, ra can be translated calamities, so I don't see what the problem is.​

 

[Avid]

... the verse can't be translated as evil.

According to your own quote from Dr. C.I.Schoffield, ra can be translated calamities, so I don't see what the problem is.​

The problem is in saying it CAN'T be translated EVIL. Just read the first few lines of my post again!

 

[Avid]

When we see the definition according to the use in the Bible, and compare it to our understanding, we see we were deceived if we think EVIL can only mean sin and wickedness. Scofield states plainly "RA" was not translated that way. It is not saying God created sin, but too many people reject what the Bible says because they can see it no other way, but that way!

 

[JesusFreak78]

The problem is in saying it CAN'T be translated EVIL.

I didn't say it can't be translated evil. I said, "it seems like translating it to calamity is a better translation". I don't disagree with calamity is a form of evil, but it's not meant as a moral evil.

 

[Avid]

... the verse can't be translated as evil.

I didn't say it can't be translated evil. I said, "it seems like translating it to calamity is a better translation". I don't disagree with calamity is a form of evil, but it's not meant as a moral evil.

You should read my post more carefully, and your own as well.

 

[Avid]

... it's not meant as a moral evil.

Maybe you should read all the posts in the thread.

 

[JesusFreak78]

You should read my post more carefully, and your own as well.

I went back and read my post again, and I'm sorry, It was badly written on my behalf.

 

[JesusFreak78]

Maybe you should read all the posts in the thread.

I should do that.