God creates evil...

[Steeno7]

So phenomenon equals calamity/natural disasters?

Nope.

 

[John Robie]

Nope.

Then your initial premise has failed.

 

[Steeno7]

<STAFF EDIT>
Okie dokie then.

 

[com7fy8]

God, our LORD, creates evil, as well as everything else. What do you think of that?

Isaiah 45
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. ​

I have opinions, and will allow others to post before I put in my 2¢ worth!

Hi, Avid I am Bill, pleased to meet you

Where it says God creates evil, in Isaiah 45:7, I see He says this along with how He says there will be trouble for those who go against God. God is the One in control of what happens to people; this includes how He is in control of how things work against those who disobey God. In "mysterious ways", He can arrange for people and things to mess with those who do what is wrong.

And we see, maybe, something like this in 2 Samuel 7 >

"'I will be his Father, and he shall be My son. If he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men.'" (2 Samuel 7:14)

So, God can use even worldly people to chasten ones who disobey God, I see from this.

And we have > "God resists the proud," in James 4:6, and also in 1 Peter 5:5. So, God in "mysterious ways" can control wrong people to do things to mess with a disobedient person! This can help to resist us or anyone while we are doing things in ego instead of submitting to how our Father rules us in His peace > Colossians 3:15.

This stuff coming against us might be "evil" > might even cause pain, and there might even be tragedy; however, if God is managing it in order to resist us, He knows we could get into much worse trouble and tragedy, were it not for His personal resistance. And surely He has already personally communicated with us, by His word and I would say by "thoughts" which came to mind and we ignored them. So, He will use circumstances and people who communicate with us more at our level while we act in ego . . . so we do not keep going where Satan and his pride would take us.

So, when "evil" things mess with me . . . however . . . and then I get nasty reacting and frustrated and I can hear words of cursing deep inside of me . . . this is fair warning of how I have been acting in ego, and right away I need to stop and trust God to correct me and restore me into intimate and sensitive and submissive sharing with Him, and discover how He leads me in His peace.

So, God's resistance is caring, for our good, and our Father is personally communicating with every person > > > either in His love He shares deeply (Romans 5:5) with each person, and personally guides (Isaiah 58:11) anyone who submits to Him, or a person in one's ego is having a run-in with the personal communication of God's resistance!!

 

[Bluelion]

This is what the LORD says in His precious word:

Isaiah 45
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Amos 3
6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?​

We should be more careful to understand His word and say these things as He does, rather than bending to the ever-changing world.

You should understand what God means or use a translation to help you.

Isa 45:7
I create the light and make the darkness.
I send good times and bad times.
I, the Lord, am the one who does these things.

 

[Bluelion]

I guess there means there will be no free will in heaven.

actually no everyone will do the will of God not there own. That is the goal after all, Jesus said my will is only to do the fathers will.

 

[John Robie]

actually no everyone will do the will of God not there own. That is the goal after all, Jesus said my will is only to do the fathers will.

You said without evil there is no free will. So will there be free will in heaven, or will be be robots doing God's will?

 

[Avid]

You should understand what God means or use a translation to help you.

Isa 45:7
I create the light and make darkness.
I send good times and bad times.
I, the Lord, am the one who does these things.

Read above, a few posts back. I listed a number of different versions on the same verse in Isaiah. Few posts farther back, 98cwtr listed others. It is very consitent.

It is incumbent on each of us to understand our own language. If enough people use a word DIFFERENTLY, as to change how it is used, we should find an old reference, in order to get the true meaning.

 

[Avid]

... or use a translation to help you.

Isa 45:7
I create the light and make the darkness.
I send good times and bad times.
I, the Lord, am the one who does these things.

If we look long enough and far enough, we are likely to find a trans. that says what we like, and agrees with us!

Look at the translations that were quoted by 98 and me. Notice it is not a mistake to use the word EVIL. The mistake comes when enough people use it differently, and affect its use. That does not change God. That does not change what God meant.

 

[twin1954]

Hi, Avid I am Bill, pleased to meet you

Where it says God creates evil, in Isaiah 45:7, I see He says this along with how He says there will be trouble for those who go against God. God is the One in control of what happens to people; this includes how He is in control of how things work against those who disobey God. In "mysterious ways", He can arrange for people and things to mess with those who do what is wrong.

And we see, maybe, something like this in 2 Samuel 7 >

"'I will be his Father, and he shall be My son. If he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men.'" (2 Samuel 7:14)

So, God can use even worldly people to chasten ones who disobey God, I see from this.

And we have > "God resists the proud," in James 4:6, and also in 1 Peter 5:5. So, God in "mysterious ways" can control wrong people to do things to mess with a disobedient person! This can help to resist us or anyone while we are doing things in ego instead of submitting to how our Father rules us in His peace > Colossians 3:15.

This stuff coming against us might be "evil" > might even cause pain, and there might even be tragedy; however, if God is managing it in order to resist us, He knows we could get into much worse trouble and tragedy, were it not for His personal resistance. And surely He has already personally communicated with us, by His word and I would say by "thoughts" which came to mind and we ignored them. So, He will use circumstances and people who communicate with us more at our level while we act in ego . . . so we do not keep going where Satan and his pride would take us.

So, when "evil" things mess with me . . . however . . . and then I get nasty reacting and frustrated and I can hear words of cursing deep inside of me . . . this is fair warning of how I have been acting in ego, and right away I need to stop and trust God to correct me and restore me into intimate and sensitive and submissive sharing with Him, and discover how He leads me in His peace.

So, God's resistance is caring, for our good, and our Father is personally communicating with every person > > > either in His love He shares deeply (Romans 5:5) with each person, and personally guides (Isaiah 58:11) anyone who submits to Him, or a person in one's ego is having a run-in with the personal communication of God's resistance!!

Hi Bill I am twin.

I just wanted to point out that the passage in 2Sam. 7 is speaking of Jesus and the covenant and speaks of His work as the Redeemer and Savior. Context not only dictates how we interpret a passage but also how we apply it.

Your point in your post though is correct concerning believers.

 

[twin1954]

God allowed evil because with out evil there is no free will, so God allowed it but evil remains to go against God, God did not create evil, He never forced anyone to go against Him. He allowed evil, so there could be free will

That, my friend, is a rationalization not a logical conclusion. You have no true basis for it. Evil, as in wickedness or sin, exists because in order to display the glorious beauty of Christ it is contrasted against a black background.

When a jeweler wants to display the brilliance of a diamond he puts it on a black cloth in order to contrast the beauty of the diamond with the darkness of the cloth.

As to what evil is, the context determines the meaning.

 

[Bluelion]

You said without evil there is no free will. So will there be free will in heaven, or will be be robots doing God's will?

<STAFF EDIT>
WHat did I just say the Goal is to do God's will not our own, we will do God's will and not our own, so what do you mean by free will? free will as we have in this world to hurt others do as we please even against God. No. Our new bodies will not be capable of Sin see Peter. So no you do not have free will to go against God in Heaven. can you pick between what you will eat an orange or a grape sure. There will be choice but not free will. free will means you could go against God if you wanted, you can't do that in Heaven.

 

[John Robie]

<STAFF EDIT>
I think God has free will. It's the most free. God does whatever He pleases. But that doesn't mean He can sin. We will have free will in heaven. But we will no longer have a sin nature. So, we will freely follow God perfectly.

 

[joshuanazar]

We share the same definition for believe. I have a hard time reconciling that good and evil are not opposites mainly because of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. You say evil did not mean wickedness, ok but evil was still not good and still not apart of God's plan. There are several words in the Bible those meanings have changed over the times. Now there is a whole world of ignorant church people and lost souls who do not know the older meanings. I'm not saying that we accept the new meanings and interpret the scriptures with them, I am saying that when these scriptures come up we should endeavor to provide as clear an understanding as we possibly can so that they are not confused. And I love C.S. Lewis. While no one is perfect, Lewis was for his time very unconventional and wise regarding scripture. He said "Religion is man's attempt to react God, Christianity is God's attempt to reach man."

 

[joshuanazar]

@John Robie @Bluelion
Ok as for this freewill stuff. We have free will on earth I have the free choice to follow God's will or I have the free choice to follow my own will. Now since me and Jesus now have a relationship together, I realize that his will is perfect and good while mine is corrupt and morally wrong. And I also realize that I want to follow his will because it is the answer that I need in this troubled world. Now do I just love him because he helps me out of trouble? Or will I still follow his will when everything is going perfect? Both in trouble and in peace I will freely choose to surrender fully to his will. And when I arrive in heaven and I see his full glory, I will freely choose to live in his perfect will. We need a choice to serve God or to serve evil, (however you define it). The only thing different about heaven is that by then we have already chosen.

 

[Avid]

... I have a hard time reconciling that good and evil are not opposites mainly because of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil...

I think it is clear that each set (Light/Darkness, Good/Evil) are OPPOSITES. I do not understand why you do not realize that it is not God that changed. Evil means what it means. People with no wisdom group all things they do not like, or that are not happy, "good" things, as Evil, and lump that with wickedness (though too many of those same people actually LOVE WICKEDNESS.) They just cannot understand their own language. They cannot see it is THEY who changed, and not for the better.

In a book written in 1949, this idea of over simplifying English to a ridiculous point, so it is easily understood (and manipulated) was called NEWSPEAK. (1984, George Orwell) The word "Speak" going for any type of verbal communication: language, talk, speak, say, communicate, verbalize, etc.

... You say evil did not mean wickedness, ok but evil was still not good and still not apart of God's plan.

Never part of the argument. It is brought in to confuse. You will do better to drop it, because it will take a whole page to go into enough detail to educate the uneducated, and enlighten the unenlightened.

... There are several words in the Bible those meanings have changed over the times.

YES, there are! Mostly for the same reason, and BELIEVE is one!!! How is it you are not satisfied that "believe" means to agree that something exists as claimed?!?!?!?

Why is there even an argument when we see that GOD Himself stated that He creates EVIL? If you or anyone arguing that side of the discussion believes that, let them sort it out. God said it. Let them argue with God... If someone is so intent that EVIL means wickedness (must only mean wickedness to justify such a backlash, btw,) let them think that. They are going to be happier that way!!!

... Now there is a whole world of ignorant church people and lost souls who do not know the older meanings. I'm not saying that we accept the new meanings and interpret the scriptures with them, I am saying that when these scriptures come up we should endeavor to provide as clear an understanding as we possibly can so that they are not confused...

That is the whole intent of this thread. Please join me on the positive side of that endeavor. You'd be welcome over here.

... I love C.S. Lewis...

I'll send you a box of chocolates for your anniversary.

 

[joshuanazar]

I think it is clear that each set (Light/Darkness, Good/Evil) are OPPOSITES. I do not understand why you do not realize that it is not God that changed. Evil means what it means. People with no wisdom group all things they do not like, or that are not happy, "good" things, as Evil, and lump that with wickedness (though too many of those same people actually LOVE WICKEDNESS.) They just cannot understand their own language. They cannot see it is THEY who changed, and not for the better.

In a book written in 1949, this idea of over simplifying English to a ridiculous point, so it is easily understood (and manipulated) was called NEWSPEAK. (1984, George Orwell) The word "Speak" going for any type of verbal communication: language, talk, speak, say, communicate, verbalize, etc.


Never part of the argument. It is brought in to confuse. You will do better to drop it, because it will take a whole page to go into enough detail to educate the uneducated, and enlighten the unenlightened.


YES, there are! Mostly for the same reason, and BELIEVE is one!!! How is it you are not satisfied that "believe" means to agree that something exists as claimed?!?!?!?

Why is there even an argument when we see that GOD Himself stated that He creates EVIL? If you or anyone arguing that side of the discussion believes that, let them sort it out. God said it. Let them argue with God... If someone is so intent that EVIL means wickedness (must only mean wickedness to justify such a backlash, btw,) let them think that. They are going to be happier that way!!!


That is the whole intent of this thread. Please join me on the positive side of that endeavor. You'd be welcome over here.


I'll send you a box of chocolates for your anniversary.

I told you that we share the same definition for believe. And yea I would like to help others understand better. Am I right in guessing that you don't like Lewis' works?

 

[Avid]

I told you that we share the same definition for believe. And yea I would like to help others understand better. Am I right in guessing that you don't like Lewis' works?

I asked you to read what I had written before. Did you?

 

[Avid]

I told you that we share the same definition for believe...

I asked how it is possible, since the meaning has changed???

 

[Avid]

I see your, explanation is clarifying. I see that the word evil could have meant something different back then. But we should be careful because most people see the word as wickedness today.

...and...

But the word had been redefined to mean something else today. The world is full of lost people who view evil as wickedness. Languages evolve and so we need to be more concerned with maintaining the meaning than the words.

<STAFF EDIT> How is it that, because people think one thing, it necessarily means something else is not true???

Just because a lot of people look at one way of using a word as the ONLY way to use that word, how does that change the many other times it is used (or was used through history,) to mean something else?