God conceived of God?

[armothe]

Trinitarianism traditionally believes:

God the Father is fully God
God the Son is fully God
God the Holy Spirit is fully God

Here are some passages I find hard to grasp. Explanations?

God was conceived by God:
Matthew 1:20 - But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

God inhabiting God:
Luke 3:22 - and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."

If Jesus the Christ was fully God, why did He need the Holy Spirit? Or was He not fully God until He received the Holy Spirit?

God inhabiting men:
Acts 2:4 - And they (men) were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

If the Holy Spirit is fully God, then does the Triune God as a whole live within us? Are there three people living inside of us?

To blaspheme or not to blaspheme:
Matthew 12:32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Why is it okay to blaspheme Christ, and not the Holy Spirit? If they are both fully God, why the distinction? Can we speak against God the Father?

Just some brainteasers to get you thinking.

-A

 

[Rick Otto]

Thanks, I'm already thinking.
Thoughts like,"Why would armothe want to tease my brain & get me thinking?"
I have explanations for your grasping difficulties, but I suspect you can anticipate & reject most of them.
#1. God concieved by God.
You haven't given us clue as to what the difficulty here is.
#2God inhabiting God. Same deal.
What's the problem?
You say"God", but you don't identify the Father, Son, or Spirit, and thus imply a skepticism or disconnect re: the seperateness of the 3 personalities.
#3 Why not just believe what you read? It says "filled with the Holy Spirit", not with the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit.
#4 Speak however you want, but the distinction is one of personality, not divinity. BTW, it doesn't say it's OK to blaspheme the Father OR the Son, it just says it will be forgiven.

Maybe YOU will get to some thinking now, armothe.

 

[armothe]

Thoughts like,"Why would armothe want to tease my brain & get me thinking?" Maybe YOU will get to some thinking now, armothe.

I can't tell whether your post is serious or sardonic.

To go into further detail on one of my questions:
If Christ did not receive the Holy Spirit, would he have been able to perform the miracles He did?

-A

 

[Philip]

If Christ did not receive the Holy Spirit, would he have been able to perform the miracles He did?

Yes, I believe so. Christ was God before His Baptism.

 

[Oblio]

If Jesus the Christ was fully God, why did He need the Holy Spirit? Or was He not fully God until He received the Holy Spirit?

As Phillip alluded to, Christ was fully God at His conception. The Holy Spirit descended upon Christ at Theophany (Baptism) to announce to the world that God had been made flesh in order to save all of Creation from the fall. As is often expedient, we can look to the Traditions of the Church, in this case the hymnology to clarify the meaning of one of the greatest Christian feasts:

Troparion (hymn) in tone 1

When Thou, O Lord, wast baptized in the Jordan the worship of the Trinity was made manifest!
For the voice of the Father bare witness to Thee, calling Thee his Beloved Son.
And the Spirit, in the form of a dove, confirmed the truthfulness of his Word.
O Christ our God, who hast revealed Thyself and hast enlightened the world, glory to Thee

Discourse On the Day of the Baptism of Christ - St. John Chrysostom

 

[armothe]

As Phillip alluded to, Christ was fully God at His conception. The Holy Spirit descended upon Christ at Theophany (Baptism) to announce to the world that God had been made flesh in order to save all of Creation from the fall.

So the only significance of the HS descending on Christ from the father was to announce His purpose for being there? Why?

I'm not sure I buy the "because it fully manifested the trinity" as an answer. If this was the case...what was the purpose?

-A

 

[Wisdom's Child]

Much of Jesus's mission in life was to set examples for us to follow. He revealed to us "The Way"...

1. He was Baptised not because of His need, but to set an example for us as to the importance of Baptism.

2. He recieved the Holy Spirit not because the Holy Spirit was lacking in him, but to show us the importance of recieving the Holy Spirit.

3. He prayed to the Father not because he was apart from the Father, but to show us the necessity of prayer to the Father.

Remember that the Water, the Spirit, and the Blood are all witnesses to our Faith.
they represent the holy sacrements of Water Baptism, Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and the Eucarist(Holy Communion). These are all public confessions of our faith. According to the Law of Witnesses wherever Two or Three Witnesses testify the Truth will be revealed.

 

[Wisdom's Child]

Why is it okay to blaspheme Christ, and not the Holy Spirit? If they are both fully God, why the distinction? Can we speak against God the Father?

Blasphemy against the Name of The Father or the Son, though wrong is forgivable because Forgiveness comes by the Power of the Holy Spirit.
Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is to deny the power thereof, You cannot recieve Forgiveness from that which You believe is powerless.

Make sense?

 

[armothe]

Much of Jesus's mission in life was to set examples for us to follow. He revealed to us "The Way"...

1. He was Baptised not because of His need, but to set an example for us as to the importance of Baptism.

2. He recieved the Holy Spirit not because the Holy Spirit was lacking in him, but to show us the importance of recieving the Holy Spirit.

3. He prayed to the Father not because he was apart from the Father, but to show us the necessity of prayer to the Father.

Could you please provide some scripture as evidence for points 1-3? Thanks!

-A

 

[ShirChadash]

God inhabiting God:
Luke 3:22 - and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."

If Jesus the Christ was fully God, why did He need the Holy Spirit? Or was He not fully God until He received the Holy Spirit?

I have been pondering this same question, almost exactly. If Yeshua (Jesus) was fully G-d, why would the Holy Spirit need to be given to Him at any point?

In other words, why is it He didn't already have the Holy Spirit to begin with?

Shalom

 

[Rick Otto]

Wisdom's Child is concise & to the point.
The sardonic effect is just a speech impediment.
SORRY about that
It's just that you ask questions that seem myopic re: their own premises.

It is not a question of ability that Jesus didn't perform miracles before His baptism, He may have in private ministry(I doubt it), unless scripture says otherwise. The question (w/due respect to His omnipotence), then becomes why that moment was significant in terms of time & location.

To question ability is to question omnipotence, not relative significance.
To question relative significance, you must do it from a correct or flawed concept of omnipotence.

Thus you may see an entry angle for a projection of sarcasm (in either direction). I sounded sardonic to you, you sounded cynical to me.
No harm done I hope, for both attitudes are appropriate in proper doses.

I assume we are adults & can forgivingly traverse these "speed bumps" of misunderstanding for the sake of Godly conversation.
I consider your questions worthy of it, armothe, in spite of your stupid logo.
Ok, I was just yankin' yer chain, dude. Sorry, I grew up w/that as cheap entertainment. Actually, I'm a graphic artist & I admire the animation. I have a love for typography - I designed signs for ten yrs.
Painted a lot of animation cells in college...

 

[Rick Otto]

God was conceived by God:
Matthew 1:20 - But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
>Like begets like as a principle found in Genesis, & divine intervention takes the form of incarnation for the purpose of reconciliation, as prophesied by God in Genesis(seed of the virgin).

God inhabiting God:
Luke 3:22 - and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a
voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."
>Humans inhabit humans for 9months. "Upon" is not "within" anyway, but maybe I'm not understanding your objection or "take" on this.

If Jesus the Christ was fully God, why did He need the Holy Spirit? Or was He not fully God until He received the Holy Spirit?
>The need was to fulfill the prophecies, not an inadequacy of any personal nature.

God inhabiting men:
Acts 2:4 - And they (men) were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
If the Holy Spirit is fully God, then does the Triune God as a whole live within us? Are there three people living inside of us?
>Inside physically, spiritually, or both?
& what do you mean "live"?
You see, there are many dimensions to the words, & they ALL have to make sense in context. When you limit your concepts & definitions of these words to humanly possible applications, you limit the divine & the eternal aspects. That is how hiuman centered works gospels get a foothold. We measure God's behavior by our own.

To blaspheme or not to blaspheme:
Matthew 12:32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
>I'd have to go check what John Gill says about that for a respectable counsel, but I think it's a simple matter of ascribing glory to other than God's providence, by the agency of His Spirit. It is usu. not done outright, but by implication when we take the credit ourselves, or lavish it upon some nicolaitane. I don't mean to 'come-on' like a teacher.

Why is it okay to blaspheme Christ, and not the Holy Spirit? If they are both fully God, why the distinction? Can we speak against God the Father?
>Ya know, that's a great question, except I don't think it's right to think of it as "OK", just forgiveable. See how easily we redefine what we read?
I catch myself doin' this all the time.

 

[scham]

A tricky question but one that can be awnsered, Althought Jesus was still God to the point of reciveing the spirit he did not have the same power? It's the spirit that gives us power, if you look at Genesis it was the spirit that did the work of creating the physical matter but because the trinity is 3 as 1 it was still God. Put it in terms you and I find easier to understand. H2O is the chemical sign for water but it is also steam and ice, they are three different things but the same if you look at the chemical sign, and they all have different functions, you don't use ice when you want to drink after playing sports, and you don't use steam when you want to keep your ice cream from melting. Jesus was God but if you look He didn't start His ministry until He had recived the spirit, this spirit gives you power.

 

[Jesus My Wisdom]

Trinitarianism traditionally believes:

God the Father is fully God
God the Son is fully God
God the Holy Spirit is fully God

Here are some passages I find hard to grasp. Explanations?

God was conceived by God:
Matthew 1:20 - But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

God inhabiting God:
Luke 3:22 - and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."

If Jesus the Christ was fully God, why did He need the Holy Spirit? Or was He not fully God until He received the Holy Spirit?

God inhabiting men:
Acts 2:4 - And they (men) were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

If the Holy Spirit is fully God, then does the Triune God as a whole live within us? Are there three people living inside of us?

To blaspheme or not to blaspheme:
Matthew 12:32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Why is it okay to blaspheme Christ, and not the Holy Spirit? If they are both fully God, why the distinction? Can we speak against God the Father?

Just some brainteasers to get you thinking.

-A

Since Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit then why is the first person of the Trinity his Father and not the Holy Spirit?

The Day God's Parent's Lost Him (Luke 2:40-52):

And the child grew and became strong, filled with wisdom, and the favor of God was upon him. Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the Passover. And when he was twelve years old, they went up according to custom and when the feast was ended, as they were returning, the child Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem. His parents did not know it, but supposing him to be in their company they went a day's journey, and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintances and when they did not find him, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking him. After three days they found him in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions and all who heard him were amazed at his understanding and his answers. And when they saw him they were astonished, and his mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been looking for you anxiously." And he said to them, "How is it that you sought me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father's house?" And they did not understand the saying which he spoke to them. And he went down with them and came to Nazareth, and he was obedient to them; and his mother kept all these things in her heart. And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man.

And God became strong, filled with wisdom and the favor of God was upon God. Now the parents of God went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the Passover. And when God was twelve years old, they went up according to custom and when the feast was ended, as they were returning, God stayed behind in Jerusalem. The parents of God did not know it, but supposing God to be in their company they went a day's journey, and they sought God among their kinsfolk and acquaintances and when they did not find God, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking God. After three days they found God in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions and all who heard God were amazed at the understanding of God and the answers of this person. And when they saw God they were astonished and the mother of God said to him, "God, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been looking for God anxiously." And God said to them, "How is it that you sought God? Did you not know that God must be in the house of his father?" And they did not understand the saying which God spoke to them. And God went down with them and came to Nazareth and God was obedient to them and the mother of God kept all these things in her heart. And God increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man.