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God and Sin

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics' started by Clizby WampusCat, Jun 18, 2020.

  1. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    What do you want from me? It is clear that you do not listen. I know I have said it before...

    The command to Adam was do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil...
    FOR IN THE DAY THAT YOU EAT OF IT
    You will surely die.


    Concentrate on the bold and capped words and tell ME what you understand in those words

    Do you think GOD already foreknew our disobedience?
    Or do you think HE was taken by surprise?

    And in this, HE still created mankind...even though HE knew already from the beginning there would be

    THAT DAY...
     
  2. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    If you are here to 'tear down every lie and expose truth', then it might help, or be suggestive, to engage with your interlocutor.

    Using the Bible to prove the Bible might not be the most effective way, is it? If so, seems as though you are suggesting to abandon logic, and just submit. But how would I know which set of doctrines to do this with? Wouldn't this take logic? You are presenting confusion here. I doubt you read all opposing claims to truth, have you?

    You must be extremely luck to have stumbled upon the one true and real one :)
     
  3. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Oh I am not the only one to have had the luck to stumble upon the TRUTH sir...yet there are many who do stumble and the TRUTH is right before their eyes yet they do not see...

    It is the judgment of Isaiah that in seeing they will not see and in hearing they will not hear, lest they should understand with THEIR HEART, turn and HE should heal them.


    But there are many who do not even realize that they are sick and in need of a healer...
     
  4. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Read 1 John 2 and come back and tell me if you think I have abandoned logic...

    I know what I know.
    I know who I learned it from

    And this is the very reason why no man will ever be able to convince me otherwise.

    THIS ANOINTING...IS...REAL....

    What I learned, I did not learn from a man.
    What I learned, I learned from GOD.
     
  5. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Is CHRIST a doctrine? You know the GOSPEL...you don´t believe it.
    You want a set of manmade rules to help you to stay in THE TRUTH?

    Nope...rather, you have to first be baptized in HIM and born of HIM and after that, do what HE said.

    REMAIN in HIM and do not go out from HIM...

    But you don´t understand this because this is the work of GOD alone....
     
  6. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    I will NEVER be confused.
    What I began in, I keep ever before me...there is nothing that I need to add to what I began in.

    I have all that I needed and that was needful from the beginning.

    Too many add to it, and in their adding to it, they make manifest that they never fully understood the magnitude of the story of our salvation in, by and through CHRIST alone...

    Sufficient...
    Sufficient...
    Sufficient...

    Nothing else and no one will be exalted above the GIFT OF GOD
     
  7. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    If Adam had no foreknowledge, he was then unaware of 'good' and 'evil'. Logically, he wouldn't have known what he was going to do 'wrong'. Thus, seems illogical to hold him accountable. Just like you would not hold a small child/toddler truly accountable for something you deem them doing as 'bad'.

    The claim is that God knows all. See below...


    Like I stated, and PLEASE pay attention to the words in CAPS. God was BOTH the SOLE rule maker, as well as the SOLE ruler enforcer. He could create ANY SCENARIO He so choose.

    HE DECIDED TO CREATE A SCENARIO WHERE HE WOULD LATER SACRIFICE HIMSELF TO HIMSELF TO APPEASE HIMSELF, AND CREATE A LOOPHOLE FOR A SCENARIO HE BOTH KNEW WOULD ALREADY HAPPEN, BUT STILL CREATE. HE THEN DEMANDED THAT ALL TAKE IT ON FAITH ALONE, LACKING EVIDENCE, AND THE ONES WHOM DON'T, WILL FRY FOREVER.
     
  8. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    I do not need a book list ma'am. I have read the Bible, just as you have.

    And yes, it seems abundantly clear that it's likely you did not reason yourself into this faith. Hence, I doubt any amount of reason will move you away from this faith.

    I would dare to say your belief hinges predominantly on emotion.
     
  9. theoneandonlypencil

    theoneandonlypencil Partial preterist, dispensationalist molinist

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    Sin was necessary. It doesn't mean God had to like it. I don't like doing dishes, but I still do them because if I don't, there won't be clean dishes to eat off of.

    Everything dealing with the topic of ethics and moral conduct outside of the bible is, at it's root, purely subjective and a philosophical hot topic; I.E. there isn't really a universal 'right' or 'wrong', it is only defined based on manmade principles and cultural differences.

    Inside of the bible, God defines what is morally right and wrong; with that being said, no, his reaction to the man breaking the sabbath(an entire topic of it's own concerning why it's so important in the OT)was reasonable within the scope set by God.

    And no, God's plan did not make the sin 'worse'.

    Hell as a concept is simply a place of punishment--that punishment being total separation from God. If God is supposed to represent all that is good, and every good thing comes from Him....well then yeah, hell is going to be a pretty terrible place because it lacks anything good.

    Either way, God may have made it but he isn't present in hell. That defeats the purpose.

    'Seems to me,'

    and you would be wrong.
     
  10. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    If such an assertion is true, God is both the law maker and the law enforcer. God can create whatever scenario He wishes. Surely God could create a given set of events, which does not require sin? If not, why call Him God?


    News flash... The Euthephro dilemma exposes the plausibility that morals are still 'subjective', even under the assertion of God's moral dictates and pronouncements.
     
  11. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    In regards to Adam...exactly...which is why it is clearly stated that their eyes were opened and they saw their nakedness...and hid.

    Prior to their disobedience, they were innocent.

    By the way...do your children ever and always obey?
     
  12. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Just like Paul, I did have a hit over the head conversion...

    However, you miss one truth with regards to those who base their faith on a feeling...

    I didn´t move from what I began in...even though the faith which began in me, was felt, I no longer feel anything...and even in this, I will not be moved...
     
  13. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Some move sir...they go out in search of the feeling in order to validate their faith...and in this, they make manifest that their faith was immature, based on their lower carnal emotions...

    We are to walk by faith sir...and not by sight...

    Some grow up into their most holy faith...a faith directed in and on HIM...regardless of what they feel...they simply come to the TRUTH that it is sufficient to be still and know that HE is GOD...and that what HE began in us, HE will complete....

    Some however move...they go out and progress above the HEAD...adding manmade material and suggestions and opinions and notions and thoughts and YEAST
     
  14. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    You missed the entire point. Please try again. Let me add to your response, so you can catch up.

    'Adam' committed a sin before he knew it was a 'sin'. It does not matter that his 'eyes were open' <afterwards>. It only matters that <when> he went again God, he was not aware he was doing so.


    You with me now? If not, I can elaborate more.
     
  15. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    So not necessary.

    Read 1 john 2 and 2 John 1...

    The difference between those who remain in what they began in...and those who go out...

    GOD provided a ¨city of REFUGE¨....

    It is sufficient to REMAIN IN HIM
     
  16. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Yes it does.
    Who are you, sir
    Are you GOD?

    Adam committed a sin and knew it...since his behavior changed...he knew and felt the guilt and hid himself.

    It is clear that the moment he ate, his eyes were opened.

    It is YOU who though you say you have read, seem not to understand and disregard this clear understanding that the moment Adam ate, his eyes were opened...and he knew he had sinned.

    GOD gave a command...HE said, do not.
    They listened to another voice who said...did GOD really say?

    That was their sin...they did what they were told not to do.

    Do not tell me that his going against GOD was not understood...He disobeyed the command and voice of GOD and did what he was told by GOD not to do...
     
  17. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    He went against GOD...period...
    He listened to another voice...period.
    He sinned...period.
     
  18. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    What will you do with all your children, CVANWEY?

    Provide another scenario so that we can see if it is an unbiased and righteous one....
     
  19. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Job had a clear understanding of man´s dilemma.

    Read Job 9 and see if you can understand that dilemma...
     
  20. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    If all have sinned and fallen short of HIS GLORY...who can be saved?
    If you are a father of many, how will you pick and choose one disobedient child over another disobedient child?

    Does a father do that?

    If HE is not a respecter of persons, how can HE be righteous when HE judges?

    Provide the scenario.
     
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