miknik5

"Let not your heart be troubled"
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Why even contribute, if you have no real plans on engaging. This forum arena is not here for believers to merely pronounce religious assertions. It is here for you to engage, and defend your position. Do you care to address my post, or are you merely here to preach?
What do you want from me? It is clear that you do not listen. I know I have said it before...

The command to Adam was do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil...
FOR IN THE DAY THAT YOU EAT OF IT
You will surely die.


Concentrate on the bold and capped words and tell ME what you understand in those words

Do you think GOD already foreknew our disobedience?
Or do you think HE was taken by surprise?

And in this, HE still created mankind...even though HE knew already from the beginning there would be

THAT DAY...
 
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cvanwey

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I am here for one thing...to tear down every lie that sets itself up against THE TRUTH...

THE TRUTH is the TRUTH...regardless if you accept it or not...

If you are here to 'tear down every lie and expose truth', then it might help, or be suggestive, to engage with your interlocutor.

Using the Bible to prove the Bible might not be the most effective way, is it? If so, seems as though you are suggesting to abandon logic, and just submit. But how would I know which set of doctrines to do this with? Wouldn't this take logic? You are presenting confusion here. I doubt you read all opposing claims to truth, have you?

You must be extremely luck to have stumbled upon the one true and real one :)
 
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miknik5

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If you are here to 'tear down every lie and expose truth', then it might help, or be suggestive, to engage with your interlocutor.

Using the Bible to prove the Bible might not be the most effective way, is it? If so, seems as though you are suggesting to abandon logic, and just submit. But how would I know which set of doctrines to do this with? Wouldn't this take logic? You are presenting confusion here. I doubt you read all opposing claims to truth, have you?

You must be extremely luck to have stumbled upon the one true and real one :)
Oh I am not the only one to have had the luck to stumble upon the TRUTH sir...yet there are many who do stumble and the TRUTH is right before their eyes yet they do not see...

It is the judgment of Isaiah that in seeing they will not see and in hearing they will not hear, lest they should understand with THEIR HEART, turn and HE should heal them.


But there are many who do not even realize that they are sick and in need of a healer...
 
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miknik5

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If you are here to 'tear down every lie and expose truth', then it might help, or be suggestive, to engage with your interlocutor.

Using the Bible to prove the Bible might not be the most effective way, is it? If so, seems as though you are suggesting to abandon logic, and just submit. But how would I know which set of doctrines to do this with? Wouldn't this take logic? You are presenting confusion here. I doubt you read all opposing claims to truth, have you?

You must be extremely luck to have stumbled upon the one true and real one :)
Read 1 John 2 and come back and tell me if you think I have abandoned logic...

I know what I know.
I know who I learned it from

And this is the very reason why no man will ever be able to convince me otherwise.

THIS ANOINTING...IS...REAL....

What I learned, I did not learn from a man.
What I learned, I learned from GOD.
 
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miknik5

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Is CHRIST a doctrine? You know the GOSPEL...you don´t believe it.
You want a set of manmade rules to help you to stay in THE TRUTH?

Nope...rather, you have to first be baptized in HIM and born of HIM and after that, do what HE said.

REMAIN in HIM and do not go out from HIM...

But you don´t understand this because this is the work of GOD alone....
 
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miknik5

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I will NEVER be confused.
What I began in, I keep ever before me...there is nothing that I need to add to what I began in.

I have all that I needed and that was needful from the beginning.

Too many add to it, and in their adding to it, they make manifest that they never fully understood the magnitude of the story of our salvation in, by and through CHRIST alone...

Sufficient...
Sufficient...
Sufficient...

Nothing else and no one will be exalted above the GIFT OF GOD
 
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cvanwey

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The command to Adam was do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil...
FOR IN THE DAY THAT YOU EAT OF IT
You will surely die.

If Adam had no foreknowledge, he was then unaware of 'good' and 'evil'. Logically, he wouldn't have known what he was going to do 'wrong'. Thus, seems illogical to hold him accountable. Just like you would not hold a small child/toddler truly accountable for something you deem them doing as 'bad'.

Do you think GOD already foreknew our disobedience?
Or do you think HE was taken by surprise?

The claim is that God knows all. See below...

And in this, HE still created mankind...even though HE knew already from the beginning there would be

THAT DAY...

Like I stated, and PLEASE pay attention to the words in CAPS. God was BOTH the SOLE rule maker, as well as the SOLE ruler enforcer. He could create ANY SCENARIO He so choose.

HE DECIDED TO CREATE A SCENARIO WHERE HE WOULD LATER SACRIFICE HIMSELF TO HIMSELF TO APPEASE HIMSELF, AND CREATE A LOOPHOLE FOR A SCENARIO HE BOTH KNEW WOULD ALREADY HAPPEN, BUT STILL CREATE. HE THEN DEMANDED THAT ALL TAKE IT ON FAITH ALONE, LACKING EVIDENCE, AND THE ONES WHOM DON'T, WILL FRY FOREVER.
 
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cvanwey

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Read 1 John 2 and come back and tell me if you think I have abandoned logic...

I know what I know.
I know who I learned it from

And this is the very reason why no man will ever be able to convince me otherwise.

THIS ANOINTING...IS...REAL....

What I learned, I did not learn from a man.
What I learned, I learned from GOD.

I do not need a book list ma'am. I have read the Bible, just as you have.

And yes, it seems abundantly clear that it's likely you did not reason yourself into this faith. Hence, I doubt any amount of reason will move you away from this faith.

I would dare to say your belief hinges predominantly on emotion.
 
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theoneandonlypencil

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Hold on, God is the one who design the world with the possibility of sin. And he knew that people will sin, so how can he hate the sin?

Sin was necessary. It doesn't mean God had to like it. I don't like doing dishes, but I still do them because if I don't, there won't be clean dishes to eat off of.

Secondly, God's "plan" made the sin worse. If you read Numbers 15, you will find a story about a man gathering sticks on a Saturday. God's response to the man gathering sticks? To order killing him by stoning him to death. In the example of killing the man, God is directly responsible for the act of killing him. What is God doing ordering such senseless taking of life? Couldn't God create some other form of punishment, such as 200 pushups?

Everything dealing with the topic of ethics and moral conduct outside of the bible is, at it's root, purely subjective and a philosophical hot topic; I.E. there isn't really a universal 'right' or 'wrong', it is only defined based on manmade principles and cultural differences.

Inside of the bible, God defines what is morally right and wrong; with that being said, no, his reaction to the man breaking the sabbath(an entire topic of it's own concerning why it's so important in the OT)was reasonable within the scope set by God.

And no, God's plan did not make the sin 'worse'.

Lastly, God created Hell, which is (mainstream Christian view) an eternal punishment, where people will be tortured to death. God too was directly involved in this design.

Hell as a concept is simply a place of punishment--that punishment being total separation from God. If God is supposed to represent all that is good, and every good thing comes from Him....well then yeah, hell is going to be a pretty terrible place because it lacks anything good.

Either way, God may have made it but he isn't present in hell. That defeats the purpose.

Seems to me, God is perfectly content in the presence of 'sin'.

'Seems to me,'

and you would be wrong.
 
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cvanwey

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Sin was necessary. It doesn't mean God had to like it. I don't like doing dishes, but I still do them because if I don't, there won't be clean dishes to eat off of.

If such an assertion is true, God is both the law maker and the law enforcer. God can create whatever scenario He wishes. Surely God could create a given set of events, which does not require sin? If not, why call Him God?

Everything dealing with the topic of ethics and moral conduct outside of the bible is, at it's root, purely subjective and a philosophical hot topic; I.E. there isn't really a universal 'right' or 'wrong', it is only defined based on manmade principles and cultural differences.

Inside of the bible, God defines what is morally right and wrong; with that being said, no, his reaction to the man breaking the sabbath(an entire topic of it's own concerning why it's so important in the OT)was reasonable within the scope set by God.

News flash... The Euthephro dilemma exposes the plausibility that morals are still 'subjective', even under the assertion of God's moral dictates and pronouncements.
 
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miknik5

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If Adam had no foreknowledge, he was then unaware of 'good' and 'evil'. Logically, he wouldn't have known what he was going to do 'wrong'. Thus, seems illogical to hold him accountable. Just like you would not hold a small child/toddler truly accountable for something you deem them doing as 'bad'.



The claim is that God knows all. See below...



Like I stated, and PLEASE pay attention to the words in CAPS. God was BOTH the SOLE rule maker, as well as the SOLE ruler enforcer. He could create ANY SCENARIO He so choose.

HE DECIDED TO CREATE A SCENARIO WHERE HE WOULD LATER SACRIFICE HIMSELF TO HIMSELF TO APPEASE HIMSELF, AND CREATE A LOOPHOLE FOR A SCENARIO HE BOTH KNEW WOULD ALREADY HAPPEN, BUT STILL CREATE. HE THEN DEMANDED THAT ALL TAKE IT ON FAITH ALONE, LACKING EVIDENCE, AND THE ONES WHOM DON'T, WILL FRY FOREVER.
In regards to Adam...exactly...which is why it is clearly stated that their eyes were opened and they saw their nakedness...and hid.

Prior to their disobedience, they were innocent.

By the way...do your children ever and always obey?
 
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miknik5

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I do not need a book list ma'am. I have read the Bible, just as you have.

And yes, it seems abundantly clear that it's likely you did not reason yourself into this faith. Hence, I doubt any amount of reason will move you away from this faith.

I would dare to say your belief hinges predominantly on emotion.
Just like Paul, I did have a hit over the head conversion...

However, you miss one truth with regards to those who base their faith on a feeling...

I didn´t move from what I began in...even though the faith which began in me, was felt, I no longer feel anything...and even in this, I will not be moved...
 
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miknik5

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Some move sir...they go out in search of the feeling in order to validate their faith...and in this, they make manifest that their faith was immature, based on their lower carnal emotions...

We are to walk by faith sir...and not by sight...

Some grow up into their most holy faith...a faith directed in and on HIM...regardless of what they feel...they simply come to the TRUTH that it is sufficient to be still and know that HE is GOD...and that what HE began in us, HE will complete....

Some however move...they go out and progress above the HEAD...adding manmade material and suggestions and opinions and notions and thoughts and YEAST
 
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cvanwey

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In regards to Adam...exactly...which is why it is clearly stated that their eyes were opened and they saw their nakedness...and hid.

Prior to their disobedience, they were innocent.

You missed the entire point. Please try again. Let me add to your response, so you can catch up.

'Adam' committed a sin before he knew it was a 'sin'. It does not matter that his 'eyes were open' <afterwards>. It only matters that <when> he went again God, he was not aware he was doing so.


You with me now? If not, I can elaborate more.
 
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miknik5

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You missed the entire point. Please try again. Let me add to your response, so you can catch up.

'Adam' committed a sin before he knew it was a 'sin'. It does not matter that his 'eyes were open' <afterwards>. It only matters that <when> he went again God, he was not aware he was doing so.


You with me now? If not, I can elaborate more.
Yes it does.
Who are you, sir
Are you GOD?

Adam committed a sin and knew it...since his behavior changed...he knew and felt the guilt and hid himself.

It is clear that the moment he ate, his eyes were opened.

It is YOU who though you say you have read, seem not to understand and disregard this clear understanding that the moment Adam ate, his eyes were opened...and he knew he had sinned.

GOD gave a command...HE said, do not.
They listened to another voice who said...did GOD really say?

That was their sin...they did what they were told not to do.

Do not tell me that his going against GOD was not understood...He disobeyed the command and voice of GOD and did what he was told by GOD not to do...
 
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miknik5

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If such an assertion is true, God is both the law maker and the law enforcer. God can create whatever scenario He wishes. Surely God could create a given set of events, which does not require sin? If not, why call Him God?



News flash... The Euthephro dilemma exposes the plausibility that morals are still 'subjective', even under the assertion of God's moral dictates and pronouncements.
What will you do with all your children, CVANWEY?

Provide another scenario so that we can see if it is an unbiased and righteous one....
 
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miknik5

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If all have sinned and fallen short of HIS GLORY...who can be saved?
If you are a father of many, how will you pick and choose one disobedient child over another disobedient child?

Does a father do that?

If HE is not a respecter of persons, how can HE be righteous when HE judges?

Provide the scenario.
 
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