God’s great time span.

[Prophecy Countdown]

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[ikester]

if we just take a look at the secular side of the world's condition in the very near future......and aside from global warming...the abililty to obtain fresh water and for humanity to feed itself is going to a major undertaking....lest famines...bird flu and whatever pestilence arises and affects our food source......

the nations of Ezekiel 38 & 39 have aligned.....bring out the ten toes of Daniel...and it's set........

 

[tridenn1]

are you sure about this??
I really doubt any mans interpretation of prophecy. The ten toes = EU has got to be all wrong becuase man invented it. if you want proof man knows nothing. read up on isaac newton he couldn't even predict that israel will be reborn. and he was considred a great among prophecy scholars.
So many prophets such as yourself and so many wrong predictions will result in nobody taking it seriously. AT that time the end will come. and your bible will be a figment of history like the epic of gilgamesh.

 

[visionary]

Yet... God will have all prophecies come to pass, even the obscure ones that no one has given any serious thought to.

 

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[Parousia]

Capital used for enphasise only.

​

Isaiah, said over 2700 years ago. ​

Isaiah 13: 6. “ HOWL YE; FOR THE DAY OF THE LORD is AT HAND; it shall come as a DESTRUCTION FROM THE ALMIGHTY.”​

The link between His second coming and His everlasting kingdom being set up is well known by most Christians. ​

It was John the Baptist that knew this fact. Isaiah was quoted by John the Baptist. around 30AD. Almost 2000 years ago and about 770 years after Isaiah. ​

Matt 3: 2. And saying, Repent ye: FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND.​

Two great Prophets from 2700 and 2000 years ago respectively confirmed their understanding, yet as some ask’ why are we still waiting?’ ​

We also have the Prophet Joel, mentioning the same event and when do the historians think he lived?​

Quote. “He makes no reference to Nineveh or to Babylon, but does mention the Phoenicians, Philistines, Edomites, and the Egyptians. Thus, his prophecy would date somewhere in the period 837–800 B.C.”​

Jerry Falwell, executive editor; Edward E. Hinson and Michael Kroll Woodrow, general editors, KJV Bible commentary [computer file], electronic ed., Logos Library System, (Nashville: Thomas Nelson) 1997, c1994.​

Joel 1: 15. Alas for the day! for the DAY OF THE LORD is AT HAND, and as a destruction from the Almighty SHALL IT COME. ​

Matt repeats John the Baptist, word for word. See Matt 3: 2. Jesus is mentioned saying the same in Matt 4: 17 where the word ‘REPENT’ is used and that word is important as to why He, is yet to return as we shall soon see. ​

The Lord, said these words through John.​

Rev 3: 11. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. ​

So His children look up, in anticipation. However it dawns on some that we are in for the tribulation firstly, then our redemption will be nigh.​

See 2 Thessalonians 2: 1 – 4 and from which we can see the man of sin by reading Isaiah 14: 10. ​

Then read Isaiah 14: 14 – 15 for The ID of Satan, who sits where he ought not, who will fall from being the ‘angel of the morning’ to that of a mortal man, See Isaiah 14: 16.​

What carnage Satan, causes on Earth in verse 17.​

Matt 24: 29. Immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: ​

It is only at trumpet 7 that we can appreciate victory over death. see 1 Cor 15: 52 – 57. ​

Can you imagine our Lord, returning from the heavens, with the shout of the guardian angel?​

Matt 24: 30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and THEY SHALL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY. ​

Matt 24: 31. And HE SHALL SEND HIS ANGELS with a great sound of a trumpet, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. ​

So after all these years we still look up and with that deeply felt yearning, His children ask, maybe selfishly, ‘please Lord, return quickly.’​

However as is the case with our dear Lord, He keeps His word and Peter, explains that the TIME span problem is with us because ‘three score and ten years’ really limits our capacity to understand God’s time table which is within the Fathers prerogative only. See Matt 24: 36. ​

Don’t take my word for the following, check it out with your Bible, within the following verses.​

When Peter, came out of the upper room he quoted Joel 2; 28. See Acts 2: 16 – 21. ​

He said it because he believed Jesus, was to return soon! ​

There is nothing wrong in that and Peter says so. See 2 Peter 3: 12 where he says we should be ‘hasting the day of the Lord.’​

The latter outpouring of the Holy Spirit, is to be given ABUNDANTLY to ALL FLESH. ​

Peter should have quoted the first outpouring of the Holy Spirit given to ZION, MODERATELY and that was so in the upper room ​

The early outpouring. See Joel 2: 23. ​

The latter outpouring is yet to be. See Joel 2: 28, 29, and in verse 30 confirms the TIME by the heavenly signs.​

As Peter grew powerfully in the Lord’s word, he later said this.​

2 Peter 3: 8. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. ​

2 Peter 3; 9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to REPENTANCE.​

Also read 10 and verse 11.​

So the question arises, how close are we?​

To answer that, we must go into the many time spans, of certain events and their locations within Daniel. ​

When Daniel, is told ‘Understand o son of man the chezev/vision/s concern the time of the end’ and ‘last end.’ See Dan 8: 17, 19. Then we know that we are on our way to Rev 10: 6, 7.​

In Matthew 24; 15. We are told by Jesus, to read Daniel.​

Maranatha. ​

PC​

Are you saying that Peter nullified his clear time reference ("the end of all things is AT HAND") with his use of 2 Peter 3:8? Why is every time reference in the NT swept under the carpet by an appeal to this verse? Also, from other verses which speak of God's elect, we know that the all coming to repentance are those whom He calls. That is why the time was shortened--for the elects' sake.


Does not the verse say "with the Lord?" That is key! God is not bound by time--He does what He does in His own good time! But when He gives US clear time words, He means for us to understand them--that's what language is for! Peter is merely telling them to trust in God's faithfulness--what He promises He will do! Nowhere in this passage does Peter ever suggest that they are NOT to expect Christ's return in their lifetimes--they are merely to be patient! Simply because it had not yet occurred, does not justify flinging the fulfillment into the very distant future!


Another thing over which people stumble is the concept of the heavens and the earth. This is not physical--it has to do with the principles and precepts of man. That is the meaning of the word (stoicheia--elements) in all NT references. These principles often refer to the judaistic system which was THEN becoming obsolete and ready to vanish away (Heb. 8). There was something new coming unlike the death-producing judaistic system of the Old Covenant. The New Covenant--the New Heavens and New Earth!


Furthermore, the writer of Hebrews makes it clear that they were then in the last days (1:1). The scoffers Peter is speaking of were of THOSE last days!


In Matthew 24:15 WE are not those being told to READ Daniel? Jesus is telling His disciples right there with Him that THEY were personally going to see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet. The readers and hearers of THAT day were to understand! Count the YOUs in this passage. Do they mean nothing?


Who was in the day of Revelation 10:6, 7? Does not this book begin with these words--

"to show His servants things which must SHORTLY take place?" Was not the time THEN NEAR? (1:3). This entire Book has to do directly with those of the first century!​

The "day of the Lord" in Joel 2 is a reference to God's judgment. Babylon was about to come upon the Jews. God appeals to the Jews to repent. But there is yet hope--for the remnant. A time was to come AFTERWARD when He would pour out His Spirit--Pentecost. The figurative uses of the sun and moon is apocalyptic judgement language. This speaks of His judgment to come upon Jerusalem in AD 70. It is this "remnant" about whom He says that "all" would come to repentance!


And again, we cannot divorce Matthew 24:29 and 30 from Matthew 24:34--THIS generation will by no means pass away till ALL THESE THINGS TAKE PLACE (caps for emphasis--not meant as "in your face!"). This is the same type of figurative language Joel used. The first-century Jews understood this--they understood apocalyptic language as it was commonly employed by their prophets. It is we who misunderstand and then misinterpret. Notice this also--that immediately after Jesus speaks of His coming in the GLORY of the Father with His ANGELS He says--"Assuredly, I say to you, there are some of those standing HERE who shall not taste death till THEY SEE the Son of Man coming in His kingdom" (Matt. 16:27 and 28). And what about the POWER? Did not Jesus say to first-century Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin--YOU will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of POWER and COMING on the CLOUDS of heaven" (Matt. 26:64)? Is not the wording very similar? Does it not speak of the same event in Matthew 16, 24, and 26? The timing of Matthew 16 is established by the "some of those standing here." The timing of Matthew 24 is established by the "this generation." The timing of Matthew 26 is established by Caiphas and the Sanhedrin themselves personally seeing Jesus' COMING.


Isaiah 13 speaks of God's coming judgment against Babylon. It was AT HAND in Isaiah's day.


Parousia

 

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[Prophecy Countdown]

i have had enough of this place. by.

 

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[Parousia]

Part three.
Parallels and patterns.
Please let me ramble then I will use the Bible.
The two horns are broken Iraq and Iran and the ram where the Moslem religious forces are fixed to the ground.

Will America survive this?
Will this cause the break up of the alliance?
Will the alliance now represented as the he goat, lose their HORN/leader, president Bush?
America/eagle, could pull up the draw bridge and tell the world no more, we have had enough, I’m not sure but where would that leave the UK/Lion.
Without the eagle’s wings of the USA?

The financial burden of these Eastern wars must be crippling for the economy of the United States and to Britain and others within the alliance.
At that point the victors, the alliance becomes ‘very great’ at the pinnacle of his power, the great horn/president on the Yavan/Gentile nation, ‘He Goat’ is broken and we know that President Bush’s term in office is not that long from ending.

So the world’s ‘number one’ king/President of the greatest Gentile nation ever to have graced the Earth, comes to a close.
However I can’t be sure until that time comes.

World politics does not suffer a vacuum for long.

The responsibility of world policeman is to be divided four ways, ‘four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven rise up.’ Dan 8: 8.

That situation of no wings will greatly weaken the LION/UK and he will have to stand like a man after he loses his lion’s heart and given a man’s heart.
The BEAR Russia, will rise up and the LEOPARD and beast with the mortal wound will make four. Dan 7: 4 – 7.
Bible check.
Daniel 8: 8. “Therefore the he goat waxed VERY GREAT: and when he was strong, THE GREAT HORN WAS BROKEN; and for it came up FOUR NOTABLE ONES toward the four winds of heaven.”

We have the lion who loses his Eagle’s wings and stands up. See Daniel 7: 4
Then bear/Russia attacking mode. Stands up Dan 7: 5:
Then the leopard stands, numbered three Dan 7: 6.
Then numbered four, the beast with the mortal wound appears.
Reminder.
Dan 7: 4. The first was like a LION, and HAD EAGLE’S WINGS:
I beheld till THE WINGS thereof WERE PLUCKED,
and IT WAS LIFTED UP FROM THE EARTH,
and MADE TO STAND UPON THE FEET AS A MAN,
and A MAN’S HEART WAS GIVEN TO IT.

Daniel 7’ the overview.’ Remember the political vacuum.
The bear/Russia is in attack mode as he rises.
Daniel 7: 5. And behold another beast, a second, like to a BEAR, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, DEVOUR MUCH FLESH.
It was President Putin, that said he wanted Russia, to be a super power again with some influence in the World. Russia has had the symbol of the bear for a long time.

Dan 7: 6. After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
I do not know who the above is!

Now please get your Bibles.
Please note where we are on the overview of Dan 7: 8. Then read the following in Daniel 8:
The ‘little horn’ is Satan, look what he does in Rev 12: 4. To ID the dragon see Rev 12: 9.

Daniel 8: 9. And out of one of them came forth a LITTLE HORN, which waxed exceedingly great
toward the south, and toward the east, and toward THE PLEASANT LAND.

Daniel 8: 10. And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and IT CAST DOWN some of the host and of THE STARS TO THE GROUND, and stamped upon them.

Rev 12: 4. And HIS TAIL DREW A THIRD PART OF THE STARS of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the DRAGON stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

This will soon occur.
Rev 12: 9. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and HIS ANGELS WERE CAST OUT WITH HIM.
In that last verse he is being thrown out of Heaven.
Notice the makeup of the beast in Rev 13: 2.
Then take a look at Rev 13: 3.
Note in Rev 13: 4 where that old dragon Satan, gives power to the beast for only forty two months in Rev 13: 5.

Let’s get Back to the overview where we are up to this explanation.
Dan 7: 7. After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

This beast appears, then we see the little horn/Satan come up after he is thrown out of Heaven mentioned in Rev 12: 9.

Dan 7: 8. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another LITTLE HORN, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like THE EYES OF MAN, and a mouth SPEAKING GREAT THINGS.

Prophecy Countdown: It is impossible to deal with your posts. They are too long and filled with too much information. In order to properly and thoroughly respond, I would have to deal with each of the many verses you provided--each in their contexts. But since this is a topical discussion, a myriad of verses is expected I suppose. I prefer studying a limited number of individuals passages so that each can be addressed within the context of the passage in which it is found and consideration can be given to the sitz im leben or setting.

But I will repeat what I have said before--Any quote made from the book of Revelation must be seen in the context of "the things which must SHORTLY taken place--in John's day (1:1; 22:6)! The time was THEN near (1:3)!

Matthew 24 is also closely tied to the Revelation and Daniel, and it is restricted to the "this generation" spoken of by Jesus on verse 34.

Parousia

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Prophecy Countdown,
"But do not forget this one thing, dear friends; With the Lord, a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:8-9

So, it's only been 2 days in God's timing since Jesus came. Hosea 6 shows that Israel was going to be revived after 2 days and restored on the third. They have been revived...the descendants of the same people, are in the same homeland, with the same capital, and the same language that they had for millenia. Miracle? Coincidence? Hand of God, maybe? I think so.
Jesus gave us a parable showing how long he would be gone in the Good Samaritan story.
He also told us what would be happening when he was about to return.
Isaiah 57: The righteous perish and no one ponders it in his heart; devout men are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil.
We are not appointed unto wrath.
I know you are not pre-trib but the more I read and study and pray, the more I'm shown that Jesus' return involves many "scenes" in an overall "play".
The first scene is the catching away, "Go my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by. See the Lord is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins..." Isaiah 26:19-21

The last trump is not the one in Revelation. Read Numbers 10:1-10. There are trumpets that are sounded to gather the people unto Him. This is what is meant by the "last trump".

 

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Had enough of the devilsdaughterjen, no wonder she was given a bad time by her church with that attitude of hers.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Hi there, Prophecy Countdown!
The last "trump" referred to in 1 Cor 15: 52 – 57 & 1 Thess. 4:16-18 couldn't be what John mentioned in Revelation as the 7th trumpet because I don't think Revelation was written yet.
It is more likely that Paul was referring to the last of two trumpets mentioned in Numbers 10:1-10 that are blown to call the people to gather before Him.
Furthermore,
The "rapture" is a resurrection and catching away to heaven (1 Thess 4:13-18).
The resurrection at Christ’s physical return is to earth. (Rev 20)

How many resurrections are there until the physical return of Jesus?
1Cr 15:20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
1Cr 15:21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

1Cr 15:23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
1Cr 15:24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

Including/besides Christ, who are the firstfruits?
Rom 8:23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Jam 1:18He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

(& 144,000 Jewish believers)
Rev 14:4These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.

Rev. 7 shows the 144,000 sealed, and then a multitude in heaven standing before the throne who've washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb. These are ALL saints, living and dead, who've come out of "great tribulation". What is the "great tribulation"? It's exactly what Jesus said it was (Matt 24/Luke 21/seals or horsemen of Rev 6): wars, famines, plagues, pestilences, earthquakes, persecution. We are seen in heaven after the 144,000 are sealed. This means we must've gone either before or as they are being sealed. When bodies are resurrected, the ground shakes...notice the massive earthquake in Rev. 6. That is when we go. We are not mentioned again until the end of Revelation.
Furthermore, Jesus made a promise which He will keep:
Jhn 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.
Jhn 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=14&version=NIV

 

[OneOfHisHandmaidens]

Hi there, Prophecy Countdown!
The last "trump" referred to in 1 Cor 15: 52 – 57 & 1 Thess. 4:16-18 couldn't be what John mentioned in Revelation as the 7th trumpet because I don't think Revelation was written yet.
It is more likely that Paul was referring to the last of two trumpets mentioned in Numbers 10:1-10 that are blown to call the people to gather before Him.
.

Who says it couldn't be the same one??? Prophecies written in the OT are NO less accurate because they were written BEFORE the NT.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Who says it couldn't be the same one??? Prophecies written in the OT are NO less accurate because they were written BEFORE the NT.

Agreed, Nancy. But I think you misunderstand what I'm saying....

Paul was writing about a last trump and a trump sounding at a resurrection. I am saying that he was referring to the 2nd of two trumps that are sounded when the assembly is gathered to God. What Prophecy Countdown is saying is that the last trump or trump sounding at the resurrection (referred to in 1 Cor & Thess) is the seventh trumpet mentioned in Revelation which hadn't even been written yet. In other words, Paul knew nothing about the 7th trumpet in Revelation. He DID know that two trumps are sounded in succession when God's people are to gather to Him.

Does that make sense to you?

 

[visionary]

Since both John and Paul got their information from the same source, I would say that they were told the same information, even if they say it differently.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

The church is no where to be found during the 7 trumpets in Revelation.
This is because we're seen in heaven in Rev. 7...
Rev 7:9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

...after the 144,000 Jewish people are sealed.
Rev. 7 says:
Rev 7:3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”
Rev 7:4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

The 144,000 are seen during the trumpets:
Rev 9:4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

The only other people mentioned as being there during those trumpets are:
Rev 9:20 The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood–idols that cannot see or hear or walk.
Rev 9:21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.

So, it appears that the two witnesses (and possibly the 144,000) go up before the 7th trumpet is sounded if I'm reading this correctly in Rev 11.

Furthermore, there is no trumpet mentioned at Jesus' return in Rev. 19 & 20 so that's not when 1 Thess 4 or 1 Corinthians 15 are talking about!

Therefore, the last trump in regards to the church is for their ingathering and has nothing to do with the trumpets of Revelation.