Go therefore and MAKE disciples

[Dave-W]

Matt 28.19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.​

There are many threads here on how to BE a disciple, but that is not what this scripture is talking about.
The command is to MAKE disciples.
How (if you were the discipler) do you approach that?

 

[Dave-W]

Matt 10.24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. 25a It is enough for the disciple that he become like his teacher, and the slave like his master.

2 Tim 2.2 The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

 

[Tree of Life]

Going, preaching, baptizing, and teaching.

 

[Dave-W]

In the gospels our Lord said "Follow ME" to his disciples. Paul said the same thing in 1 Cor 11.1 Some versions word it "Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ."

Are we comfortable saying that to those we disciple?

 

[Tree of Life]

In the gospels our Lord said "Follow ME" to his disciples. Paul said the same thing in 1 Cor 11.1 Some versions word it "Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ."

Are we comfortable saying that to those we disciple?

We should be able to say "imitate me as I imitate Christ." We ought to be able to give people - not a perfect example - but a living example of what it means to follow Jesus. This does not mean that our students must imitate us in everything. But it does mean that they may look to us as one example of what it means to follow Jesus.

But at the same time I don't make disciples of myself. I seek to make disciples of the Lord Jesus.

 

[Dave-W]

We should be able to say "imitate me as I imitate Christ." We ought to be able to give people - not a perfect example - but a living example of what it means to follow Jesus.

Amen brother!

This does not mean that our students must imitate us in everything. But it does mean that they may look to us as one example of what it means to follow Jesus.

The text and the 1st century Judean culture say otherwise. At any rate, it should surely keep us on our toes and fully follow HIM in every area of life.

But at the same time I don't make disciples of myself. I seek to make disciples of the Lord Jesus.

Indeed. And that is an important message to covey to those we disciple. We are not perfect. He is.

 

[Ken Rank]

Matt 28.19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.​

There are many threads here on how to BE a disciple, but that is not what this scripture is talking about.
The command is to MAKE disciples.
How (if you were the discipler) do you approach that?

In Greek, this sentence has aspects that are passive and that are in command form. Ironically, the "Go" which in English sounds as if in command form, is not only passive, but a participle. Instead of "Go" it should be a more passive "going," and most Greek scholars agree that "as you are going," would be a translational paraphrase that really does the most justice here. The "make disciples" (really "make students") is what is in command form BUT... one can't force another to become a student. One must be "seeking" in order to find "asking" in order to hear.

So I tend to think that the basis for the Great Commission is Deut. 6:7 ("You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.") which is done mainly through life example while being ready to teach those ready to be instructed both about Yeshua's work AND the instructions (Torah) of God.

Bottom line, in order to MAKE a disciple we must already have been discipled ourselves AND have the time to put into the learning of those who come to us wanting to learn.

 

[~Anastasia~]

A great investment in someone's life is necessary to make disciples. The Apostles didn't start a Church and move on a week later.

Yes, first the one doing the guiding must have been down that path themselves. You can't lead where you haven't been. So that person should be one that can be imitated, yes.

Practical aspects are necessary. People benefit from being taught how to pray, how to fast, how to prefer others before themselves, and many other things we have been given. Sometimes by example, but really, these things are best talked about to make sure people understand why they are doing them, how they do them, how to bring thoughts captive to Christ, and again - many other things. Fasting does more harm than good if a person manages to fast well and becomes proud of their accomplishment as a result, for example.

It is a huge investment in time, teaching, and requires a life submitted to Christ in order to provide an example that can be imitated. And of course no one is perfect ... it requires humility too, and must be motivated by a love for God and others - never ever a desire to be a master over anyone, or even to be thought well of. The goal is to disciple them, so they can grow and go out to make more disciples. It is about the Body as a whole, not any one of us.

 

[Ken Rank]

A great investment in someone's life is necessary to make disciples.

That is the key. Beyond having been discipled, we also can't go into this thinking a NT with the Psalms, a few tracts, and a once a week bible study is sufficient. Now, perhaps we can have our students follow us around day and night for a few years and we see throughout the bible. But it has to be more than an hour a week... it takes time and commitment AND the calling to do this correctly.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The context of the early church was those of the dispersion. That's how the church growth occurred that caused it to spread to all the known world. Thousands were scattered that had been given the anointing to do so. Nowadays the church is there to teach the basics but at some point in time they should be turning out mature converts to Christ that are capable of producing new life in their surroundings, where ever they may be. Unfortunately churches seldom get past the examples of the letter of the law to teach what they are as spiritual realities.

Imitating Paul means understanding Paul, but he wasn't easy to understand for those contemporary to him. Those he claimed to be a father of mostly deserted him at the end.

But as the people of God we are responsible for bringing those who began with to complete the job of bringing them to the throne in white robes ( as Chuck Swindoll would say) or as best as we can with what we have. God is responsible for the increase so that none can boast. Unless He is causing an increase in maturity then there is no one to disciple because the one discipling isn't discipled themselves. Which is what I think most in this thread are saying.

 

[Dave-W]

In Greek, this sentence has aspects that are passive and that are in command form. Ironically, the "Go" which in English sounds as if in command form, is not only passive, but a participle. Instead of "Go" it should be a more passive "going,"

Of course I get that. I agree that it is actually tied to part of the first paragraph of the Shema:

Deuteronomy 6:7
You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.

Bottom line, in order to MAKE a disciple we must already have been discipled ourselves

Ideally that is true. But how do you make a disciple if no one you know has ever been discipled?

AND have the time to put into the learning of those who come to us wanting to learn.

Since making disciples is just as much a command as baptizing converts, we must MAKE time to do it.

 

[Sierra Franklin]

In every decision put Jesus first and everything else goes awesome!

 

[Dave-W]

In every decision put Jesus first and everything else goes awesome!

Good advice to be sure. But I'm Not sure how that fits the discussion.

 

[rom-837]

In Greek, this sentence has aspects that are passive and that are in command form. Ironically, the "Go" which in English sounds as if in command form, is not only passive, but a participle. Instead of "Go" it should be a more passive "going," and most Greek scholars agree that "as you are going," would be a translational paraphrase that really does the most justice here. The "make disciples" (really "make students") is what is in command form BUT... one can't force another to become a student. One must be "seeking" in order to find "asking" in order to hear.

So I tend to think that the basis for the Great Commission is Deut. 6:7 ("You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.") which is done mainly through life example while being ready to teach those ready to be instructed both about Yeshua's work AND the instructions (Torah) of God.

Bottom line, in order to MAKE a disciple we must already have been discipled ourselves AND have the time to put into the learning of those who come to us wanting to learn.

 

[rom-837]

I fully agree sir Ken.

Yeshua is the epitome of a true discipler. He showed to us in the New Testament how to discipline his followers into the type of person they ought to be. But discipleship is not a new concept he introduced. Discipleship had been part of the lifestyle of the Israelites and yes it all goes back to Deut 6:7. Every Israelite undergoes the process of being discipled, first by their parents then as they mature, by their teachers or rabbi. I believe this is the tradition they follow up to this time. We'll learn critical insights if we'll examine the pattern of their discipleship. Our ultimate Rabbi is Yeshua. He is the fulfillment of the Torah (law). He has lead the way, our duty is to simply follow Him. It's not an easy task but God's grace is sufficient for us. Contrary to some beliefs, there is a tangible sign if indeed we are His disciples:

"By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." (Jn 13:35)

SHALOM!

 

[Dave-W]

So what do you think the LORD thinks of us NOT training our new believers in discipleship?

Is it not overt disobedience to a New Covenant command?

 

[Ken Rank]

So what do you think the LORD thinks of us NOT training our new believers in discipleship?

Is it not overt disobedience to a New Covenant command?

If you are asking me (my notification said you quoted me but I don't see it here) the question comes down to one of definition. What does it mean to disciple? Does it means hand somebody a NT and Psalms and a 20 minute pep-talk before sending them out to polarize their friends and family? A disciple is student... so, what are we to study? I think it is clear, the Torah. When Paul said that all Scripture was given by God's inspiration and could be used for instruction in righteousness and correction (among other things) his reference could only have been to the Scripture of his own day, the Torah and the Prophets, not his own writings. While I now accept his writings as inspired, he wasn't referring to himself, to his own writings. This thought of mine (which is held by millions) is backed up in Acts 15 when those in the nations are given 4 doctrinal points as a place to BEGIN (Serving God only, not stealing, etc. are not included and since we know they apply to all, we know the Acts 15 list shouldn't be viewed as an "all that is expected" list) and then they are to go and learn the rest. That is why at the end of the Acts 15 letter it states that Moses (an idiomatic reference to God's law) is read in the Synagogues on Shabbat. The point being... start with these 4 things and go learn the rest. Learning the rest is what being discipled means.... we become a student of the word who learns not only God's will, but how to apply it.

 

[Dave-W]

If you are asking me (my notification said you quoted me but I don't see it here) the question comes down to one of definition. What does it mean to disciple?

When this folder first started (before they put up the "sign here - agree to this" posting, I had an article posted on what was understood by "discipleship" to first century Jews living in the Land of Israel. (province Judea) But since I had not signed their post, I was not supposed to be posting here. I deleted everything prior to my actually signing the list. But here is a link to the article I posted and started to discuss:

Discipleship is Jewish

The absolute dedication and loyalty that disciples held for their Master is unmirrored in any of our modern institutions of study or in our culture at large. Imagine if, rather than just hanging out in school and having a good time, you began to emulate your professor. You memorized his lectures and quoted him at every possible moment. You followed him to and from his home and often invited yourself to eat with him. You began to dress and act like him. You sought to absorb every possible nuance of his behavior. This may be obsessive, but it’s also discipleship! The greatest Sages produced carbon copies of themselves! “Every disciple, fully trained, will be like his Master” (Lk 6:40)​

 

[Ken Rank]

When this folder first started (before they put up the "sign here - agree to this" posting, I had an article posted on what was understood by "discipleship" to first century Jews living in the Land of Israel. (province Judea) But since I had not signed their post, I was not supposed to be posting here. I deleted everything prior to my actually signing the list. But here is a link to the article I posted and started to discuss:

Discipleship is Jewish

I will read it in a bit, thanks. I will tell you... if the church understood what it meant to be a disciple when Yeshua said to be disciples... most wouldn't put in the time. Most of the hours in a day, most of the days of the week... walking with your teacher... watching, gleaning, asking, hearing. 1 hour long service and a 1 hour bible study a week is NOT being discipled. All that does is perpetuate the denomination.

 

[Dave-W]

1 hour long service and a 1 hour bible study a week is NOT being discipled. All that does is perpetuate the denomination.

Amen brother!