Go forth and multiply?

[snoochface]

True. But that's because, in the animal world, there is no understanding of right and wrong. They aren't better than us, or even equal to us, just because they've never sinned. Even though my puppy loves me to death, he doesn't understand why he shouldn't pee in the house. He knows he gets in trouble when he does, but he doesn't understand why. I don't need him to understand why, either. I only need him to understand that he shouldn't pee in the house. Jesus needs us to understand why our sins are wrong, otherwise, we can't be saved. That's where I make the distinction. A human life will always be superior to an animals, imo.

This reasoning completely negates Jesus telling us that we are to be like little children. They don't understand why putting their hand on the stove is wrong either -- and we don't need them to understand it, we just need them to not do it. Your dog doesn't understand why it's wrong to pee in the house, and he doesn't need to understand it -- he just needs to not do it. Jesus doesn't need for us to always understand why our sins are wrong (take some of the more difficult passages literally, for example, women being silent in church and not teaching men). We may not understand why some things are the way they are, and Jesus doesn't need us to. He just needs us to obey. Same with animals.

Where does it say Adam and Eve were vegetarians? I know God gave the permission to eat of any of the trees accept for one, but that doesn't mean they only ate plants. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I've just never ever seen that in the Bible anywhere. Jews were also allowed to eat some eats, so it wouldn't really make sense for Adam and Eve to only be veggetarians, while the later Jews could, and did, eat meat.

abrickrock gave the verses in Genesis. All of creation ate vegetation until after the flood. God gave all the plants for all creatures of earth to eat. After the flood, he gave the plants and the animals both as food.

 

[Rebekka]

abrickrock gave the verses in Genesis. All of creation ate vegetation until after the flood. God gave all the plants for all creatures of earth to eat. After the flood, he gave the plants and the animals both as food.

Yep, those verses that abrickrock posted were the ones I was thinking of.

After the flood, well, yes, then humans were allowed to eat meat - indeed because there weren't too many plants to eat for a while after the flood, but also, remember, in the garden of Eden there was no death! So how could anyone have eaten meat there, then? Surely vegetarianism is what God intended for us. Only after the fall, when sin and death entered the world, were we allowed to eat meat. But it is more paradise-like to be vegetarian.

I do eat (some, and only free range & organic) meat, but not without feeling guilty, it is a weakness of mine.

 

[snoochface]

Also, before the fall, animals weren't even used for clothing. There was no death as Rebekka said, and Adam and Eve were naked. Only after the fall did God give them skins to wear as clothing - which obviously had to have come from an animal. Prior to that, Eden was peaceful and all creatures, human and otherwise, lived together in harmony eating plants, not each other.

 

[chris4243]

Who says there was no death in the Garden of Eden? If so then what was the tree of life in the middle of the garden for? To make people live even more forever?

 

[snoochface]

Genesis 2:16-17
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

IF they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, THEN they would die.

They could eat from ANY other tree - including the tree of life, which would allow them to live forever. They did eat from every tree, presumably also from the tree of life. After the fall, God said that they could no longer eat from the tree of life and live forever, and banished them from the garden.

The inference is that as long as they were in the garden and able to eat from the tree of life, they would live forever.

 

[Cynthia85]

So... uh... not to be the party pooper of the bunch, but is there anyway we can get this thread back on topic?

 

[Rebekka]

So... uh... not to be the party pooper of the bunch, but is there anyway we can get this thread back on topic?

Is there more to say about it?

 

[Audiomechanic]

Is there more to say about it?

Nope. This post pretty much sums it up:

Your friend should do some study in the Bible about when, and under what circumstances, God said to "go forth and multiply". I think that, by and large, Christians who use that as their basis for the "child free is against the Bible" argument are not all that familiar with the Bible.

God told man(kind) to go forth and multiply in two very specific situations in the Bible: 1) to Adam and Eve when the earth needed to be populated because they were the only human beings in existence; and 2) to Noah and his children, when the population of the earth had just been wiped out by the flood and needed to be re-populated.

That's it.

He didn't put it into the Law of Moses, in the Ten Commandments, into any of the law outlined in Leviticus. Jesus did not reiterate it in any way. It was asked of specific people who were, at the time, the ONLY people capable of fulfilling the request, and it was asked in specific circumstances when mankind needed to propagate.

This is a far cry from being a requirement of all Christians, at all times, throughout all of time, space, and history.

I really wish people would understand this and quit misusing that scripture. There's absolutely nothing inherently against Christianity to choose to be child free. And furthermore, if God really wants a child free by choice Christian to have a kid, he's perfectly capable of making that happen.

 

[Everlasting33]

Any couple who chooses to have two kids or more, are idiots. (That's verbatim, fyi) .

I agree with this. The world is plenty populated. For thousands of years, people were having 5 plus children because they had to. The morality rate was so high, many lived on farms, and there was inadequate means of birth control.

I don't think you can regulate something like that and China is in a mess with their one child policy.

Its really frustrating to see the inner city families with 4 plus children since its really adding to the problem.

 

[bendslikeawillow]

Well, I'm not childfree, but I'd like to chime in,.....

God trusts our judgement, and gives us the wisdom needed to make decisions like these. He would never want a woman (or man) who does not have any desire for children to bring children into the world grudgingly. Besides, when this commandment was given, the earth actually NEEDED to be populated. We're doing just fine in that area now

 

[Audiomechanic]

God trusts our judgement, and gives us the wisdom needed to make decisions like these. He would never want a woman (or man) who does not have any desire for children to bring children into the world grudgingly. Besides, when this commandment was given, the earth actually NEEDED to be populated. We're doing just fine in that area now

I agree.

Well, I'm not childfree, but I'd like to chime in,.....

But I thought you said you are child free:

I wonder why the the op is so angry? I am currently CFBC and I have yet to find a CFBC forum that isn't full of anger and nastiness toward children and mothers. I just don't get it.

 

[writerchick7]

I don't want kids either. I hate how people say that I'll change my mind once I get married or What if you husband wants kids? Ugh, so annoying!!

 

[freedom1807]

I don't want kids either. I hate how people say that I'll change my mind once I get married or What if you husband wants kids? Ugh, so annoying!!

Tell me about it. And I swear (or it seems) women are treated more like something that's just crawled out underneath a rock when they express this view, more than men. Or the false assumption that if you don't want kids you don't want to get married. Marriage and kids are 2 completely different things. Yes, more often than not they go hand in hand, but they ARE 2 different things and getting married shouldn't automatically be interpreted as kids will follow, which is why it's so important to discuss the issue pre-marriage.

 

[colleenhopman]

Your friend should do some study in the Bible about when, and under what circumstances, God said to "go forth and multiply". I think that, by and large, Christians who use that as their basis for the "child free is against the Bible" argument are not all that familiar with the Bible.

God told man(kind) to go forth and multiply in two very specific situations in the Bible: 1) to Adam and Eve when the earth needed to be populated because they were the only human beings in existence; and 2) to Noah and his children, when the population of the earth had just been wiped out by the flood and needed to be re-populated.

That's it.

He didn't put it into the Law of Moses, in the Ten Commandments, into any of the law outlined in Leviticus. Jesus did not reiterate it in any way. It was asked of specific people who were, at the time, the ONLY people capable of fulfilling the request, and it was asked in specific circumstances when mankind needed to propagate.

This is a far cry from being a requirement of all Christians, at all times, throughout all of time, space, and history.

I really wish people would understand this and quit misusing that scripture. There's absolutely nothing inherently against Christianity to choose to be child free. And furthermore, if God really wants a child free by choice Christian to have a kid, he's perfectly capable of making that happen.

Thanks for the clear explanation of this Bible verse!! This is exactly the quote my judgemental friends says to me when we try to discuss my decision!!

 

[writerchick7]

You make great points Snoochface!!

 

[CounselorForChrist]

I think I posted once, I can't remember, but it bugs me to no end that most of the time women get defensive when you talk about not wanting kids. They act likes its their right to and if you don't want any then your a selfish male. Despite the fact they are also acting selfish and using having/not having kids as a weapon.

And its a lose/lose situation for men honestly. Before marriage if we say no, most women look elsewhere for someone (because apparently kids equals marriage). If we say maybe, then the insist we have them or they play mind games and in some cases divorce. So most men give in out of feeling guilt or because they wife talks to other women who then talk to the man. If you say, then your stuck having them no matter what.

Whats is even more annoying is if you tell a woman "People change their minds!". Then they get mad. But its ok they can change their minds about other things. Aside from cheating, one of the next biggest reasons for divorce is stubbornness/selfishness. And most of the time its its the woman being that way. As I said in a another thread, women can be stubborn at times. Just as much as men if not more.

Lets say a woman wants a child, but if you say no she stops having sex with you. The woman fails to see they are in sin. The bible says your bodies belong to each other and your not suppose to use things like lack of sex as a weapon to get your away. If anything it causes even more strife. Sex is part of marriage. Kids are not. They are blessings, but they are optional. Like choosing to have popcorn at a movie.

My wife when dating me knew I didn't want kids even though I loved them. Mainly because of finances and my disabilities. Now that we are married some women starting talking to her about all the joys of having a child. So now she wants one. My problem is sure, we know kids are a blessing and they can bring lots of joy. BUT... no one talks about the stress it adds to a marriage and how hard it can be to raise one.

Its not something you just say "Hey lets have some kids!". You need to discuss and see if you should or not. I am not upset shes changed her mind mind you. I wouldn't mind a girl. But its something we need to talk about more once shes here in America. SHe has told me she will be sad if I say no kids, but she also said she will understand and still love me and that being married is what matters most to her.

So I am thankful shes that way. Granted we shall see what happens when the time comes and I possibly say no. For now I am leaving it in Gods hands. If I have one concern its that she has mentioned she loves her nieces and nephews but she says they are to stressful for her and she doesn't have the patience for kids. I don't want to have one and then have wishing she didn't have one.

So hopefully others can see in my case I am not being selfish, instead I am taking into account how she feels about kids.

 

[FishermanDoug]

I think I posted once, I can't remember, but it bugs me to no end that most of the time women get defensive when you talk about not wanting kids. They act likes its their right to and if you don't want any then your a selfish male. Despite the fact they are also acting selfish and using having/not having kids as a weapon.

And its a lose/lose situation for men honestly. Before marriage if we say no, most women look elsewhere for someone (because apparently kids equals marriage). If we say maybe, then the insist we have them or they play mind games and in some cases divorce. So most men give in out of feeling guilt or because they wife talks to other women who then talk to the man. If you say, then your stuck having them no matter what.

Whats is even more annoying is if you tell a woman "People change their minds!". Then they get mad. But its ok they can change their minds about other things. Aside from cheating, one of the next biggest reasons for divorce is stubbornness/selfishness. And most of the time its its the woman being that way. As I said in a another thread, women can be stubborn at times. Just as much as men if not more.

Lets say a woman wants a child, but if you say no she stops having sex with you. The woman fails to see they are in sin. The bible says your bodies belong to each other and your not suppose to use things like lack of sex as a weapon to get your away. If anything it causes even more strife. Sex is part of marriage. Kids are not. They are blessings, but they are optional. Like choosing to have popcorn at a movie.

My wife when dating me knew I didn't want kids even though I loved them. Mainly because of finances and my disabilities. Now that we are married some women starting talking to her about all the joys of having a child. So now she wants one. My problem is sure, we know kids are a blessing and they can bring lots of joy. BUT... no one talks about the stress it adds to a marriage and how hard it can be to raise one.

Its not something you just say "Hey lets have some kids!". You need to discuss and see if you should or not. I am not upset shes changed her mind mind you. I wouldn't mind a girl. But its something we need to talk about more once shes here in America. SHe has told me she will be sad if I say no kids, but she also said she will understand and still love me and that being married is what matters most to her.

So I am thankful shes that way. Granted we shall see what happens when the time comes and I possibly say no. For now I am leaving it in Gods hands. If I have one concern its that she has mentioned she loves her nieces and nephews but she says they are to stressful for her and she doesn't have the patience for kids. I don't want to have one and then have wishing she didn't have one.

So hopefully others can see in my case I am not being selfish, instead I am taking into account how she feels about kids.

With all the selfishness there is out there in the world, I am kind of glad I am single. Some days I find myself lonely, and other days I am thanking God that I am riding solo right now. With so many changing attitudes about relationships, marriage, love, sex, children, etc...it causes confusion, doubt, and some times for me, it causes apathy as a result of that type of mental whirlwind.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

I hated being single, but I also hated having to think if I found an american woman, she might give up to easily or have to many issues (not that anyone is perfect obviously). But meeting my wife from another country really changed my perspective. However it only made me dislike american women more.

Also because men treat their women poorly in my wifes country, the women look to america for men who don't have them as slaves. Granted sometimes men here can be as bad as the women. But if your honest with them and have a big heart they will love you forever. Now...if my wife ever died early in life. I'd stay single. I will never find someone like her in this world since its changing to much.

 

[FishermanDoug]

I hated being single, but I also hated having to think if I found an american woman, she might give up to easily or have to many issues (not that anyone is perfect obviously). But meeting my wife from another country really changed my perspective. However it only made me dislike american women more.

Also because men treat their women poorly in my wifes country, the women look to america for men who don't have them as slaves. Granted sometimes men here can be as bad as the women. But if your honest with them and have a big heart they will love you forever. Now...if my wife ever died early in life. I'd stay single. I will never find someone like her in this world since its changing to much.

I have heard of a little trend now days where men are finding women in different countries. If you don't mind me asking, how did you meet?

 

[CounselorForChrist]

We met through a free christian dating site. It is free with no catch. Doesn't have millions of people at it but its better then most of the sites I tried. Most of the women seem legit and aren't into games. I'd say half of them though are filipino. Which is what my wife is.

There are people that say avoid dating overseas because of scammers. But usually thats not the case. A scammer is pretty obvious. Such as one day later asking you for lots of money. I never regret going to the site. Oh its christiandatingforfree (dot) com