Chaleb

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Paul teaches us that the born again are """dead to sin and alive to God.""""

IF you are just water baptized, or similar, and were lied to about "water washes your sin away"... then reader, go to the Cross, and receive Jesus as your Savior, by Faith....today.

Now, How did that happen?.... How is it that the born again, are """dead to sin, but alive to God"... and 'Made FREE from Sin"...?

It happened because the old man, the body of sin, is dead....= crucified with Christ.
So, how can we live any longer "therein", Paul asks.
How can the "dead" sin?

Listen,
The more you realize just how forgiven you are, just how eternally secure you are, just how far you have been separated from your sin by The Cross of Christ, the more you will love God, the more you will want to serve God and the more you will be able to do this, perfectly.
Serving God is only a chore, a hardship, and a bitter situation, when you are trying to stay saved by Law, commandments, water, and works.
So.... when you let go of all that = SELF righteousness.... and let God reign in your REAL FAITH, then you will find that your walk with God is amazing.
= .when you lay aside all ideas, concepts, theologies, legalism, that wrongly informed you that trying to strive against sin, and keep commandments and LAW is how you live Holy... then the Grace of God will reveal to you that its GOD who lives His holiness through you= that is the spiritual empowerment, the life of CHRIST= that empowers your discipleship into perfection.
'"It is not I who live...........but Christ".... And that is the GRACE of God Paul is describing to you, Reader, that became yours the instant you took Christ into your heart as your Savior.

Those who blaspheme God's Grace, by labeling it a "cheap Grace" and a ticket to licentiousness... have no idea what they have done to themselves, as they will never be able to live Holy, or even understand the Blood Atonement or the righteousness of God that is found in Christ.
They just exist here, blindly.. Galatians 1:8
The bible is under LOCK & Key to these people who chase Law and commandments and have NO CROSS in their FAITH.

Also...

One of the wonders of Christianity, that makes it so different from man made RELIGION, is that Religion starts with you being bad, and then you struggle for years trying to carry out some (penance) religious discipline hoping to end up better then you were, but you only end up the same...... just as bad, but quite philosophical about it all.
Religion teaches you how to be very philosophical, but it can't get you to heaven.
Religion conforms you into a philosophical hell bound sinner, and often these people write books.... "self help", that didn't keep them out of hell when they died.

See...

CHRISTianity on the other Hand, starts you out as born again as..= "the righteousness of God in Christ". = You start FINISHED.....you start "made Righteous"...You start on day 1 as having received the ETERNAL "the gift of Righteousness"..... and you then learn how to live in that truth perfectly, in your renewed mind, = your discipleship is empowered. That is how you "work out your salvation" that you have been given already, on day ONE, as soon as you believed in Jesus and were born again.
Discipleship is not trying to be holy, as the born again start on day 1 as the Righteousness of God..., = You can't become more holy then God's Righteousness that you have been given the instant you believed.

= "the GIFT of Righteousness".


Discipleship: is being born again Righteous...... and learning to exist in this, which is how you work out your salvation in your BELIEVING, ..and that is the renewing of your mind. That is the Helmet of Salvation, and how you walk in the Spirit.
See, many of you were wrongly taught that discipleship is trying to be like Christ.
You were taught that discipleship is doing good stuff for others and worrying about law and commandments. However, you can be an unbeliever and do good works.. As works are just works......no matter if you are heaven bound or hell bound, Reader.
Being selfless, giving, compassionate, kind... is just a self effort... nothing more.
God says..>"without FAITH it is impossible to please God.".
So, there go your works.. = and your law keeping and your commandments obsession and your water baptism..... to try to be accepted by God.

Reader, if you want to please God then ""study to show yourself approved""", live in Paul's epistles until you are this... Hebrews 13:9.
Until you are "as many as be perfect"... "the fullness of the stature of Christ"., which is a Spirituality that is of FAITH and the renewing of your mind.
And live always in expectation (Faith) that God's Grace is the answer to all questions and the solution to all problems, and REST IN THIS GRACE OF GOD.
Rest in it, and you will be delivered from yourself....from your self righteousness.... and that is the truest freedom of all that being born again, does provide for you.

Next..

Its the LAW that defines a person as a SINNER, and..... "where there is no Law, there is no Transgression"

= "you (the born again) are not under the law, but UNDER GRACE", and where sin abounds.....GRACE more Abounds.""""

And here is a Revelation,.... = there is no sin "IN Christ", or IN God or IN Heaven.. and the born again are all "in Christ', "One with God"", "seated in heavenly places".'

See that?
Take a good look, as that is your eternal reality if you are truly born again., and it will never ever end, as Eternal Life is not temporary., and all the born again have been given Eternal Life.

And One more.

John 3:16 and 2 Corinthians 5:19 teach that God's Blood shed as Christ on the Cross, .. this SACRIFICE of the Bread of Heaven, takes care of all our sin, as well as the entire world's..
So, this redeeming of the world of humanity from their Sin, and back to God, one at a time as per BELIEVER by their Faith in the finished work of Jesus on the Cross, is an overpayment for your sin.... as this blood of God and Death of Christ paid for the world's sin, 2000 yrs ago.
God as Christ on the Cross literally paid for your sin 2000 yrs ago """""by the one time eternal sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross for you."""""
Its Done.

Welcome to : SALVATION
Its a "GIFT"



Now, How does your discipleship manifest this revelation of the Grace of God?

What happens when you realize that your sin is gone ??????, as "God made Jesus to be sin for us"..... and God's pardon is eternal, and you have it, "in Christ", forever?

Here is how to see it...

I teach my students the story of the Harlot who was forgiven great sin.
She was a tremendous sinner, a professional harlot..... and Jesus did not condemn her, .. He just forgave her... He just showed her the Love of God.
She had no works, no water baptism, no self effort to give Him.. All she had was her lifetime of sinning to offer Jesus.. and Reader...> """"Jesus came into the world to SAVE SINNERS"... and she qualified, as do all of us.
And when we have this Gift of Salvation that saves sinners , proven by being born again...and we understand this Gift of Salvation and this Gift of Righteousness...= we find we have a new heart, and its like the changed and blessed heart in the harlot whom Jesus forgave all her sin.
What was her response to being forgiven "Much".. ?????
She found Him in Public, and crawled on her hands and knees to The Lord Jesus The Christ weeping tears of joy, her heart bursting with overflowing thankfulness.
She crawled to Jesus across the floor in public, with the religious self savers the Law keepers eyeing her, detesting her,...staring through their self righteous eyes while Jesus was being worshipped by this woman who "had been forgiven much" .
She washed The Lord's feet with her tears of gratitude, and dried them with her hair of thankfulness.
See that?
That is how your heart behaves when you discover the revelation of God's Grace and the eternal pardon of God's Cross is YOURS FOREVER.!
It makes your heart glow with Joy, and it empowers you to want to please God, most of all.

See that JOY?
That's the JOY of realizing that God has you forever, and ever, and ever, and He will keep you.

See that MIND?
See that FAITH?

Get it today and watch your sinnng and confessing fade, and fade, and fade, away

God bless you to see it.
 
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fhansen

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In any case the gift off righteousness, as Scripture maintains, is a real gift, not a merely declared one. John defines righteousness thusly:

"The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister." 1 John 3:7-10
 
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BobRyan

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Paul teaches us that the born again are """dead to sin and alive to God.""""
Amen!

And the Apostle John says "sin IS the transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4-- even in the NT
Paul says that the Law - includes the distinct unit of Law were "Honor your father and mother is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2
and James says the same thing in his quote from the TEN in James 2.
Those who blaspheme God's Grace, by labeling it a "cheap Grace" and a ticket to licentiousness...
Paul addresses this in Romans 6:
15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under the Law but under grace? Far from it! 16 Do you not know that the one to whom you present yourselves as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of that same one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were entrusted, 18 and after being freed from sin, you became slaves to righteousness.
have no idea what they have done to themselves, as they will never be able to live Holy,
less speculation - more scripture please.
Its the LAW that defines a person as a SINNER, and..... "where there is no Law, there is no Transgression"
This is true of the unsaved as Paul points out in Rom 3:19-21 where "all flesh" is held accountable (still) and every tongue, every mouth close - because "all have sinned".

Yet in that context for Law Paul ends with this "do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31 since as Paul says in Heb 8 - the LAW is written on the heart under the NEW Covenant just as Jer 31:31-34 states for the NEW Covenant.

Some will say "Bob those are just examples of texts I avoid" -- but that is not the solution for everyone.
 
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fhansen

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Yet in that context for Law Paul ends with this "do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31 since as Paul says in Heb 8 - the LAW is written on the heart under the NEW Covenant just as Jer 31:31-34 states for the NEW Covenant.
And in Rom 2:12:
"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law."
 
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rturner76

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How is it that the born again, are """dead to sin, but alive to God"... and 'Made FREE from Sin"...?
It is a transformation that happens when you are baptized in good faith.
 
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Chaleb

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In any case the gift off righteousness, as Scripture maintains, is a real gift, not a merely declared one. John defines righteousness thusly:

"The one who does what is right is righteous,


If you are doing it, then its not a Gift.

Also, your verse was given to JEWS, before Jesus died on the Cross.

You might want to update your Theology to the NEW COVENANT that is created by the CROSS of CHRIST, as there was no New Covenant in your verse, as Jesus had not died on the Cross yet.
 
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Chaleb

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Some will say "Bob those are just examples of texts I avoid" -- but that is not the solution for everyone.

The Cross of Christ, is the eternal solution for sin.
There is no other.

Try to get the Cross in your Theology and in your Faith, and it'll begin to show up in your posts. (finally).
Believe it, BobRyan.
 
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Chaleb

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It is a transformation that happens when you are baptized in good faith.

Water can't save a dog., so it certainly can't wash away sin.
Avoid any water cult that teaches that Water is Salvation.

Here is something for you to consider., rtunrer76.

Water only touches the body, while your sin issue is inside you.
Its inside you that is the issue......that has to be dealt with by the DEATH of Jesus for your SIN.
Your SIN is inside you.

Also "the body is dead because of sin" so that water didn't even help that issue.
 
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BobRyan

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Paul addresses this in Romans 6:
15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under the Law but under grace? Far from it! 16 Do you not know that the one to whom you present yourselves as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of that same one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were entrusted, 18 and after being freed from sin, you became slaves to righteousness.
have no idea what they have done to themselves, as they will never be able to live Holy,
less speculation - more scripture please.
Its the LAW that defines a person as a SINNER, and..... "where there is no Law, there is no Transgression"
This is true of the unsaved as Paul points out in Rom 3:19-21 where "all flesh" is held accountable (still) and every tongue, every mouth close - because "all have sinned".
Try to get the Cross in your Theology and in your Faith, and it'll begin to show up in your posts.

My posts show that in fact I do love the Cross -
(all the while you continue to ignore every point made in the post you claim to be responding to - as well as every text in it)

hmmm.... when I do a search for "atoning sacrifice" posted by "BobRyan" I get over 22 pages of results at 20 posts per page so then over 890 posts and that includes numerous ones this month and last month and they are consistent going back to 2008. That's looks like it is more than all the posts you even have so far. That means you could not have done more had you put that atoning sacrifice content in every single one of the 550 posts you have made so far (instead of making so many false accusation posts for example). clearly you are in over your head at this point. Why keep going down that road??

IS this point even a tiny bit confusing for you so far?

So then please at least try to be serious... embarass yourself less that way.
 
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Chaleb

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So then please at least try to be serious...

Paul said.

"Be a follower of Me, as i Follow Christ".

Paul's Epistles are "Pauline Doctrine"., which are given as Church Doctrine, in the "time of the Gentiles".

We are currently there.
 
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BobRyan

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Paul said.

"Be a follower of Me, as i Follow Christ".
True he did. What he did not say is "ignore every text of scripture posted and just make false accusations against other Christians in your posts to them"
Paul's Epistles are "Pauline Doctrine".,
Indeed they are. And what they do not teach is - "ignore every text of scripture posted and just make false accusations against other Christians in your posts to them"

step 1. Address the points made in the posts you claim to be responding to.
 
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Chaleb

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True he did. What he did not say is "ignore every text of scripture posted

You have nothing to offer that is related to the Blood Atonement or the Grace of God.

Ive read your theology.
Its all Self Saving, and posted verses that you dont understand.
So, i'll let you continue to do and be the same, as that's what you do., BobRyan
 
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BobRyan

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hmmm.... when I do a search for "atoning sacrifice" posted by "BobRyan" I get over 22 pages of results at 20 posts per page so then over 890 posts and that includes numerous ones this month and last month and they are consistent going back to 2008. That's looks like it is more than all the posts you even have so far. That means you could not have done more had you put that atoning sacrifice content in every single one of the 550 posts you have madeso far (instead of making so many false accusation posts for example). clearly you are in over your head at this point. Why keep going down that road??

IS this point even a tiny bit confusing for you so far?
hmmm... seriously?? You knew that since 2008 I have posted more than 880 posts specifically speaking of the "Atoning Sacrifice" that Christ made on the cross 'for OUR sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2 -- including numerous ones of them this month and last month - and STILL you made the false accusations above?

Do you hear what you are saying???
You have nothing to offer that is related to the Blood Atonement or the Grace of God.
I see because in your POV - "880 posts specifically speaking of the "Atoning Sacrifice" that Christ made on the cross 'for OUR sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2 -- including numerous ones of them this month and last month" -- is not at all a reference to "blood atonement or the grace of God"????

Do you read your own posts??

How do you expect that sort of posting to be taken seriously??

Do you repeat that false accusation hoping that it will excuse you from ignoring the NT scriptures I keep posting and the points being made in the posts you claim to be responding to?

As it is now - we can all see what is happening here. Try being serious in your response to the posts I am making when you respond to them.
 
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BobRyan

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The Grace of God, is the Cross of Christ.

Salvation : Is Jesus

Eternal Life : Is Jesus

Redemption : Is Jesus

Truth : Is Jesus

The Resurrection : Is Jesus
True.

But it does not excuse or promote the kind actions we have seen where someone ignores scripture in the posts they respond to - and the points made in the posts they claimed to be responding to
 
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fhansen

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If you are doing it, then its not a Gift.

Also, your verse was given to JEWS, before Jesus died on the Cross.

You might want to update your Theology to the NEW COVENANT that is created by the CROSS of CHRIST, as there was no New Covenant in your verse, as Jesus had not died on the Cross yet.
No, John's letters came after Christ's death and resurrection. No need to assign or categorize any new testament teachings to old covenant theology anyway-everything Jesus taught was solidly new covenant. And gifts can be accepted, or rejected at any point in time. The new covenant is about a way of life, now in union with God walking in His ways-justly- not some one-time act of faith or profession of a mantra-as if God's going to be impressed with no more than that.
 
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Chaleb

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The Grace of God, is the Cross of Christ.

Salvation : Is Jesus

Eternal Life : Is Jesus

Redemption : Is Jesus

Truth : Is Jesus

The Resurrection : Is Jesus
No, John's letters came after Christ's death and resurrection.

The entire NT came after Christ's death.
Of course.

But here is the thing you have to understand...
All verses in the NT and OT< have to be discerned in Light of The Cross.
And any teaching on Salvation, has to be understood in Light of Paul's Gospel and Paul's Doctrine, as Jesus gave it to Paul, personally .
 
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Chaleb

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. And gifts can be accepted, or rejected at any point in time.
Nonsense.

Romans 11:29

"The Gifts and Callings of God are without repentance"

= "without Repentance" means that God never takes them back.

And being born again, is not something you can undo..., as a birth is permanent.
Both on earth and spiritual.

You can't stop being born.......and you can't stop being born again.
 
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BobRyan

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No, John's letters came after Christ's death and resurrection. No need to assign or categorize any new testament teachings to old covenant theology anyway-everything Jesus taught was solidly new covenant. And gifts can be accepted, or rejected at any point in time. The new covenant is about a way of life, now in union with God walking in His ways-justly- not some one-time act of faith or profession of a mantra-as if God's going to be impressed with no more than that.
This is a very good point. Jesus' gospel was not "everyone choose the old covenant instead of the New Covenant in Jer 31:31-34"
 
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BobRyan

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And being born again, is not something you can undo..., as a birth is permanent.
More than "born" Adam was directly created by God - sinless, perfect, without defect in full communion with his maker - and then became lost.

Then we have the "Forgiveness revoked" teaching of Christ in Matt 18 as we see Paul affirming in Romans 11, Heb 6, Gal 5...
 
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