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Featured Global Government: It’s Closer Than You Think

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Quasar92, Sep 6, 2017.

  1. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Over the past several decades, the world has moved closer and closer to global government. Free trade and globalization have taken the world by storm. National borders have been relaxed, if not completely erased. And many people see themselves as “citizens of the world” instead of citizens of their home country. Have no doubt. We’ve been on a slow march toward global government for decades.

    In recent years we’ve seen a worldwide pushback against this trend. Brexit, the election of Donald Trump, and the rise of nationalism have led many to think free trade and globalization are on the way out. Does this signal the end for a future global government? No.

    Despite the recent events, there’s no stopping the march toward global government. How can I be so sure? Because the Bible says it’s coming. And the Bible has a perfect track record when it comes to foretelling the future.

    The Bible says the Antichrist will conquer other nations and create a global empire (Revelation 6:2-4). He will be so powerful, no one will be able to oppose him (Revelation 13:4). But in an age of nuclear weapons, how is this possible? Many say it’s not. They say such a conquest would trigger a worldwide nuclear war. A war ending with total destruction of the planet. But keep in mind, conventional wisdom is often wrong. And this case is no different. Why do I say this? Because we won’t be in the age of nuclear weapons forever. In fact, the age of nuclear weapons is about to end. And when it does, a global government will rule the world.

    Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD)

    In 1949, the Soviet Union became the world’s second nuclear power. Since then, fear of a global nuclear war has kept humanity from destroying itself. The fear of total destruction, the idea no one can win a war between two nuclear powers, is known as Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD). For 70 years, it’s all that’s kept us from World War III.

    World leaders know – in an all-out nuclear war, no one wins. Because of this, we’ve never seen an all-out war between two nuclear powers. Many believe we never will. Sure, a regional power such as North Korea or Iran might one day cause a lot of destruction. But could they destroy the entire world? No. But a war between the United States, Russia, or China? That’s a different story. For that reason alone, many believe we’ll never see a war between those superpowers. It makes sense. And in the current era, it may prove true. But just because it’s true now doesn’t mean it will always be true. Why? Because in the coming era of advanced technology, MAD will be obsolete.

    The End of MAD

    To believe MAD will always rule the day, to believe the threat of nuclear annihilation will forever prevent a war between superpowers, is to believe nuclear technology is the pinnacle of all technology. It’s not. Just as in the past, new technology will one day replace nuclear weapons. Firearms once made arrows obsolete. Tanks once made horse mounted troops obsolete.

    And one day soon, new technologies will make nuclear weapons obsolete. When that day comes, MAD will also be obsolete. And when MAD becomes obsolete, the world peace built on MAD will disappear. Why? Because the threat of certain and total destruction will go away.

    Post-MAD Instability

    When new technologies emerge, decades of world stability will disappear overnight. The old rules will no longer apply. Let’s look at what will change:

    Defense Against Nuclear Weapons – For much of the nuclear age, there’s been little to no defense against nuclear weapons. Once a nuclear weapon is launched, the targeted nation can do little to stop it. But that’s changing. Missile defense has improved drastically in recent years. And new technologies will allow for better tracking of nuclear weapons (preventing the smuggling of nuclear weapons into enemy territory).

    More importantly, new technologies open up the possibility of disabling nuclear weapons before they can be launched or detonated. New technologies such as artificial intelligence (AI), quantum computing, and molecular manufacturing will enable a nation to infiltrate an enemy’s closed networks and mechanical systems. In such a world, a nation using outdated nuclear age technology will become just as defenseless as an army with spears trying to fight an army with firearms. Nuclear weapons alone will no longer deter an attack.

    The Unknown – In a world of such technologies, a nation can never be certain of enemy capabilities. Emerging technologies will be unstable and unpredictable. Advances will take place rapidly, and they won’t be easy to monitor. Today, not every nation has the ability to develop nuclear weapons. Nuclear programs are difficult to conceal. But new advanced technology programs will cost less and be harder to track. This makes the spread of these technologies much more likely. Even worse, in age of cyberwarfare, you may not even know who your enemy is. All these unknowns will create suspicion and instability. And this increases the likelihood of a catastrophic war.

    Targeted Destruction – Once the threat of nuclear war is removed, conquered territory would once again be livable. Think about it. After an all-out nuclear war, who would want to live? Few people. What sense does it make to destroy your enemy only to live in a radioactive world?

    But new technologies will change this calculation. If one nation has advanced technologies, and the other doesn’t, it could easily disable and conquer its enemies. With these other nations defenseless, the more advanced nation could conquer at will without fear of nuclear retaliation.

    Decreased Economic Cooperation – Advanced technologies will reduce world trade, lessening the impact of war. For example, China and the United States are major trading partners. A war would devastate each nation’s economy. Because of this, they’re less likely to go to war with each other. The price is too high. But what happens when advanced technologies make every nation self-sufficient? A major deterrent to war will disappear.

    As you can see, if MAD becomes obsolete, ending the threat of nuclear war is not necessarily a good thing. In such a world, a new threat will take the place of nuclear war. That threat is a new arms race involving advanced post-MAD weapons. It may prove highly unstable. If war broke out, the entire world could be destroyed. So while the threat of nuclear war would end, the threat of global destruction would not. In fact, the likelihood of global destruction would increase significantly.

    As terrible as this sounds, many people claim they already have the solution.

    Global Government

    In a post-MAD world, many people see only two options:

    1) An unstable arms race likely to end in global annihilation or;

    2) Global government.

    Most will choose global government. The first nation to develop advanced post-nuclear technologies will most likely take advantage of its powerful position. It will likely use its power to conquer all other nations before they develop similar technologies. This nation could then establish a monopoly when it comes to these new technologies. And it will use its global monopoly to create a new and stable world order. Think about it. If no one is left who can wage war against this nation, the world will be at peace. Unfortunately, the world will also be under the hand of global government.

    Conclusion

    Global government is coming. If it doesn’t arrive sooner, advanced technologies will eventually force it. The Bible says global government is coming, and the Antichrist will be its ruler (Revelation 13:7). The Bible also says the Antichrist will not be revealed until the restrainer is taken out of the way (2 Thessalonians 2:7). This means, as we live out the last days of the era of MAD, both the Rapture and the Second Coming are very near. Jesus is coming!

    Britt Gillette is author of the free ebook Coming to Jesus: One Man’s Search for Truth and Life Purpose as well as Signs of the Second Coming: 11 Reasons Jesus Will Return in Our Lifetime. Receive his book 7 Signs of the End Times for free when you sign up for his monthly newsletter.

    By Britt Gillette


    Qusar92
     
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  2. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Instead of nuclear weapons coming to an end, it is more likely that the globalists will destroy a major U.S. city through a nuclear false-flag event and use the incident as a reason why we need global government.

    It would be a fire sacrifice in the same way that the Baal worshippers sacrificed humans to Baal during the time of Elijah.

    Based on 1 Thessalonians chapters 4 and 5 and Revelation 11:15-18, the gathering of the Church occurs at the beginning of His Second Coming.

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  3. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    I have to think that some people just don't read the Bible prophesies. They prefer to wildly speculate, with ideas based on our current situation.
    What they fail to see is that the forthcoming Lord's terrible Day of vengeance and wrath, will completely change the worlds civilization. As history and the Bible plainly tells us, in ancient times God sent a flood to correct that civilization, saving only one man and his family. Now we are once again as in the days of Noah and this time, the earth is reserved for a judgement of fire. 2 Peter 3:7 Fully described in over 70 Bible prophesies.

    Many more people will survive this disaster and they will form a One World Govt, in order to regain control of food supplies, energy, communications, law and order, etc.
    But we Christians will gather into all of the holy Land, where we will be the people bearing the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43 That is our destiny and our privilege.
     
  4. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Does the Bible prophesy a one-world government and a one-world currency in the end times?

    The Bible does not use the phrase “one-world government” or “one-world currency” in referring to the end times. It does, however, provide ample evidence to enable us to draw the conclusion that both will exist under the rule of the Antichrist in the last days.

    In his apocalyptic vision in the Book of Revelation, the Apostle John sees the “beast,” also called the Antichrist, rising out of the sea having seven heads and ten horns (Revelation 13:1). Combining this vision with Daniel’s similar one (Daniel 7:16-24), we can conclude that some sort of world system will be inaugurated by the beast, the most powerful “horn,” who will defeat the other nine and will begin to wage war against Christians. The ten-nation confederacy is also seen in Daniel’s image of the statue in Daniel 2:41-42, where he pictures the final world government consisting of ten entities represented by the ten toes of the statue. Whoever the ten are and however they come to power, Scripture is clear that the beast will either destroy them or reduce their power to nothing more than figureheads. In the end, they will do his bidding.

    John goes on to describe the ruler of this vast empire as having power and great authority, given to him by Satan himself (Revelation 13:2), being followed by and receiving worship from “all the world” (13:3-4), and having authority over “every tribe, people, language and nation” (13:7). From this description, it is logical to assume that this person is the leader of a one-world government which is recognized as sovereign over all other governments. It’s hard to imagine how such diverse systems of government as are in power today would willingly subjugate themselves to a single ruler, and there are many theories on the subject. A logical conclusion is that the disasters and plagues described in Revelation as the seal and trumpet judgments (chapters 6-11) will be so devastating and create such a monumental global crisis that people will embrace anything and anyone who promises to give them relief.

    Once entrenched in power, the beast (Antichrist) and the power behind him (Satan) will move to establish absolute control over all peoples of the earth to accomplish their true end, the worship Satan has been seeking ever since being thrown out of heaven (Isaiah 14:12-14). One way they will accomplish this is by controlling all commerce, and this is where the idea of a one-world currency comes in. Revelation 13:16-17 describes some sort of satanic mark which will be required in order to buy and sell. This means anyone who refuses the mark will be unable to buy food, clothing or other necessities of life. No doubt the vast majority of people in the world will succumb to the mark simply to survive. Again, verse 16 makes it clear that this will be a universal system of control where everyone, rich and poor, great and small, will bear the mark on their hand or forehead. There is a great deal of speculation as to how exactly this mark will be affixed, but the technologies that are available right now could accomplish it very easily.

    Those who are left behind after the Rapture of the Church will be faced with an excruciating choice—accept the mark of the beast in order to survive or face starvation and horrific persecution by the Antichrist and his followers. But those who come to Christ during this time, those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life (Revelation 13:8), will choose to endure, even to martyrdom.

    Recommended Resource: End Times Prophecy by Paul Benware

    Source: gotquestions.org


    Quasar92
     
  5. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    There will be no pretrib removal of the Church, based on Revelation 12:11.
    A person cannot be under the Blood of the Lamb and not be under the Grace of the New Covenant Church.


    PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
    with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
    F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
    http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418

    Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
    PDF Files

    Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
    Pastor Tim Warner
    http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf

    Pretribulationist Revisionism
    (Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
    Pastor Tim Warner
    http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

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  6. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Please explain why you keep denying the pre-trib rapture of the Church by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, when you have been provided the Scriptural facts fully supporting it. Review the following passage that reveals Jrdud return in His second coming to the earth, WITH HIS CHURCH:

    Rev.19:11 "I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”15 Psalm 2:9 He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
    King of kings and Lord of lords.
    17And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”
    19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh."


    Quasar92
     
  7. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    ftgujh
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  8. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Because for most of the almost 1800 year history of the New Covenant Church it was understood that the events at the end of 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 would occur at the beginning of Christ's Second Coming.

    You must ignore the words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10 in order to separate the event at the end of chapter 4 from the timing of the event at the beginning of chapter 5.

    Your Two Peoples of God doctrine only works by ignoring certain passages of scripture.



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  9. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The teachings of Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul is the origin of the following end time events:

    The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church

    Mt.24:31:

    [/B] And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His ELECT from the four winds [Israel - on earth], from one end of the heavens to the other [The Church Jesus will rapture before the seven year tribulation begins]. How did those ELECT get into heaven? Read on to find out.

    Lk.21:36:
    "Watch ye, therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."

    Jn.14:2-4 and 28:
    "In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you [See Jn.20:17]. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." [Jn.14:2-4].

    "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." [Jn.14:28].

    The Scriptures tell us where we all go, who belong to Christ, after the death of our bodies:
    "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." As recorded in 2 Cor.5:8, confirming Ecc.12:7. Which is, in and of itself, conclusive to the fact that Jesus is not going to let the rest of His Church remain on earth to go through the seven year tribulation, when He returns for those of us who are still alive, waiting for His appearing, in 1 Thes.4:17. Since He raises all those who have died, to be with Him, immediately after their physical death, for more than 2,000 years.

    1 Thes.4:13-18:
    The Thessalonians were very concerned about those among them who had died, that they would not be gathered together with the rest of them when Jesus returned. Paul assures them in vs 13-14 that they will all be returning with Christ from heaven, where they have been since He raised them up to be with Him, the day they died physically, according to 2 Cor.5:6-8.

    "We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him [Died physically]. Vs 14.

    "According to the Lord's own word [Scriptural truth as to the fact that Jesus taught there was to be a pre-trib rapture of the Church, as recorded in Jn.14:2-4 and 28], we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left to the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep." Vs 15. An assurance by Paul to the Thessalonians that the dead in Christ had already been raised from the dead before, and were already with Christ when He returns for all those left on earth alive at His coming.

    Because they have already been raised, each in his/her own turn, according to 1 Cor.15:23. That is the very reason it is not documented as a resurrection in the Scriptures.

    "For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven [With all His saints [Church], according to vs 14], with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" [Paul again assures them, as seen in verses 13-14, they were already previously raised once before, each in his/her own turn, as they died, for more than 2,000 years]. Vs 16.

    "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be CAUGHT UP [raptured] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the sky. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Vs 17. Where we proceed with Jesus to our Father in heaven as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

    "Therefore encourage each other with these words." Vs 18.

    2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:
    "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].

    The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

    In vs 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

    Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
    The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].

    Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.

    "He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4.

    The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed:
    In vs 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way."

    The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:

    In vs 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].

    The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8.

    From the above Scriptural facts, there can be only one proper interpretation for the timing of the rapture of the Church, which will be immediately preceding the 70th and final/7 year tribulation, triggered by the antichrist, all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27. Seen also as the first of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, riding the white horse, in the first of the seven seals, in Rev.6:2. There is no "pre-wrath" or post-trib rapture taught in the Scriptures.


    Other verses pertaining to the rapture of the Church: 1 Thes.1:10; 1 Thes.5:9; Rev.3:10 and Rev.4:1-2. Of the saints [Church] returning with Christ from their marriage in heaven, in Rev.19:7, 8 and 14; Jude 14 and Zech.14:4-5!


    The difference between the Second Coming of Christ and the pre-trib rapture of the Church:

    http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice...eenTheRapt.pdf


    Quasar92
     
  10. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church

    The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!

    The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:

    1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11.

    2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.

    3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

    4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.


    Quasar02
     
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    How did many of those in the scriptures of the New Testament get to heaven?


    The thief on the Cross, who accepted Christ

    John the Baptist

    Stephen

    All of the Apostles

    Thousands of our Brothers and Sisters who lived long ago


    They died...

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  12. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No. That is not how they got to heaven. According to the Bible, they got to heaven through the actions of Jesus, as described by Paul, in 2 Cor.5:6-8. Confirming Ecc.12>7. They are thsome of whom the angels will gather from one end of the heavens to the other.


    Quasar92
     
  13. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    That's right.

    Ultimately, the power behind the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will be Lucifer/Satan (the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9), just as the controllers of the unsaved world have always been (and are still currently) Lucifer and his fallen angels (Ephesians 6:12, Ephesians 2:2-3). But there could also be a secret cabal of human world leaders in big business, finance, intelligence agencies, federal law enforcement, politics, the media/entertainment, the military, and religion, who know this fact, and so have secretly become worshippers of Lucifer to obtain from him all the world's power, wealth and pleasures they can (cf. Matthew 4:9).

    These Luciferians could have been working secretly together for some time (including through a worldwide secret society which teaches Gnostic Luciferianism at its highest degree of initiation) to prepare the way politically, economically, culturally, militarily and religiously for a single Luciferian human world leader (the Antichrist) to take hegemony over the whole earth (Revelation 13:7b) and, along with his miracle-working False Prophet, to bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 19:20). God will let them succeed in this, but for less than 4 years (Revelation 13:5b, Daniel 12:11-12), before Jesus Christ returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Revelation 19:20 to 20:3). Jesus will then set up his own, 1,000-year, physical kingdom on the earth with the physically resurrected Church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:8-21).
     
  14. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note nothing in the Bible says or requires any Christian will be left behind at the rapture.

    Is such a mistaken idea usually based on Luke 17:26-37 and Matthew 24:37-41? If so, people should realize these passages refer to what will occur at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming, "when the Son of man is revealed" (Luke 17:30), "the coming of the Son of man" (Matthew 24:37,39), which Jesus had just finished saying won't occur until immediately after the future Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). Those "taken" at the Second Coming (Luke 17:34-36, Matthew 24:40-41) will be non-Christians who will be taken where they will be killed by Jesus Himself, and birds will eat their dead bodies (Luke 17:36-37; Matthew 24:28, cf. Job 39:30b; Revelation 19:21). The Greek word "paralambano" ("taken": Luke 17:34-36, Matthew 24:40-41) can be used to refer to being taken to another place to be killed (John 19:16-18).

    Those "left" where they are at Jesus' Second Coming (Luke 17:34-36, Matthew 24:40-41) will include non-Christians who will be forced to come up annually to worship the returned Jesus in Jerusalem during the future Millennium (Zechariah 14:16-19). These non-Christians will have to be ruled with a rod of iron by Jesus and the physically resurrected Church during the Millennium (Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 20:4-6, Psalms 2, Psalms 66:3, Psalms 72:8-11). And their descendants will be deceived by Satan after the Millennium into committing the Gog/Magog rebellion (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

    Before the Millennium, at Jesus Christ's Second Coming, those in the Church will neither be "taken" and killed, nor "left" where they are, but will be "gathered together" (raptured) (Matthew 24:31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1) in the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17). The purpose of this rapture meeting will be so the Church can be judged by Jesus (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27) and married to Him (Revelation 19:7) in the sky, before He descends from the sky (the 1st heaven) with the obedient part of the Church to bring (Himself) the Second-Coming wrath of God on non-Christians (Revelation 19:14 to 20:3).

    So Jesus' Second Coming will be like "the days of Noah" (Matthew 24:37) and "the days of Lot" (Luke 17:28,30) in that just as Noah went into the ark before the Flood, and Lot went out from Sodom before it was destroyed by God, so the Church will be raptured into the sky at the Second Coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Matthew 24:30-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7) before Jesus Himself begins the Second-Coming wrath of God (Revelation 19:15 to 20:3, Luke 17:26-30, Matthew 24:37-39).
     
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    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note nothing in the Bible teaches or requires a pre-tribulation rapture of the Church. Instead, the Bible shows Jesus Christ won't come and gather together (rapture) the Church until immediately after the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). That's why the marriage of the Church doesn't happen until Revelation 19:7, in connection with Jesus' Second Coming and the physical resurrection of the Church at that time (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). Matthew 24:30-31 refers to the same Second Coming of Jesus and gathering together (rapture) of the Church as 2 Thessalonians 2:1, which refers to the same Second Coming of Jesus and catching up together (rapture) of the Church as 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

    Jesus Christ won't return and gather together (rapture) the Church until sometime after there's a falling away (an apostasy) in the Church, and the future Antichrist sits (at least one time) in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Revelation 11:1-2, Revelation 13:4-8), and the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 3rd Jewish temple (Matthew 24:15-31, Daniel 11:31). For when Jesus returns to gather together (and marry) the Church, He will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20). Before Jesus returns, the Church will have to go through the future, literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-31).

    At Jesus Christ's Second Coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:30), the Church will be physically resurrected and caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31), not to remove the Church from the earth (Proverbs 10:30, John 17:15,20), but to take the Church only as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

    At that meeting, Jesus Christ will judge everyone in the Church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27) by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30). And then Jesus will marry in the clouds the obedient part of the Church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), those in the Church (of all times) who "overcame" to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). They will then mount white horses and come back down from the sky (the 1st heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as He defeats the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and the world's armies (Revelation 19:15-21). Jesus will then make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the physically-resurrected and married obedient part of the Church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54). Jesus and the obedient part of the Church will then physically reign on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).
     
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    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note this doesn't require a pre-tribulation rapture. For some in the Church will escape all of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18, Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 by dying before it begins (Isaiah 57:1). And others in the Church will escape all of it by being physically protected on the earth during it (Revelation 12:14-16, Psalms 91). Those who will escape the Tribulation by dying before it begins will stand before the Lord Jesus Christ in heaven (cf. Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8). And those who will escape the Tribulation by being miraculously protected on the earth during it will stand before the Lord in the sky at the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:17), which won't occur until immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

    Note there's no pre-tribulation-rapture idea in John 14:2-3, just as there's no "take you back" (somewhere). Instead, there's only a coming again of Jesus Christ (His Second Coming), and then a receiving of the Church unto Himself. Also, the pre-tribulation-rapture view can't (as is sometimes done) claim the rapture is referred to only by the apostle Paul, and then admit John 14:3 refers to the rapture.

    John 14:2 means one of the reasons Jesus Christ left was to prepare a place for the Church in the literal city of New Jerusalem, God the Father's house in heaven (Revelation 21:2-3). John 14:3 means Jesus' leaving to prepare a place for the Church means He's not done with the Church, but will come back to it. John 14:3 means the Church will be received to Jesus where He will be first at His Second Coming, which will be in the sky (1 Thessalonians 4:17), before He lands on the earth at His Second Coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Matthew 24:30-31, Zechariah 14:3-21), which won't occur until immediately after the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

    The Church will live in its place in New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:24 to 22:5) on the New Earth (Revelation 21:1-3) sometime after the future Millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15). For during the Millennium the physically resurrected Church will rule on the present earth with the returned Jesus Christ (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Zechariah 14:3-21).

    Also, the Church has already come to God the Father's house, New Jerusalem, which is currently in heaven, in the spiritual sense of coming under the New Covenant (Hebrews 12:22-24, Galatians 4:24-26, Matthew 26:28). Also, the souls of obedient people in the Church go to God the Father's house when they die, for their still-conscious souls go into heaven to be with Jesus Christ when they die (Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8). And they go into paradise (Luke 23:43), which is in heaven (2 Corinthians 12:2b,4), in the city of New Jerusalem (Revelation 2:7 and Revelation 22:2).

    2 Thessalonians 2:3 refers to when an individual man will be revealed (that is, without any remaining doubt) as being the Antichrist by his sitting (at least one time) in a future, 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaiming himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, Matthew 24:15). This is one of the things which have to happen sometime before the future day of Jesus Christ's Second Coming and the gathering together (rapture) of the Church (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8) immediately after the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). For at the Second Coming, the Antichrist will be destroyed (2 Thessalonians 2:8b, Revelation 19:20).

    The "falling away" (Greek: apostasia) in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is the apostasy, when some in the Church will depart from faith in Jesus Christ in the latter times (1 Timothy 4:1), when the Antichrist is revealed (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4) and begins a worldwide persecution against the Church (Matthew 24:9-13) during his worldwide reign (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6). Those in the Church who fall away/commit apostasy will ultimately lose their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12b).

    The meanings of the Greek word apostasia, as well as the Greek word it's derived from, aphistemi, include non-physical departure. For Acts 21:21 employs apostasia to refer to Jewish Christians in the 1st century AD forsaking, departing from, their former practice of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law. And Luke 8:13 employs aphistemi to refer to Christians falling away, departing, from faith in Jesus Christ. Also, at the rapture, the Church won't physically depart from the earth (John 17:15,20, Proverbs 10:30), but will be caught up only as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with Jesus Christ at His Second Coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

    2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [Greek: katecho: holds down] will let [hold down], until he be taken out of the way.

    The restrainer of the future Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:6-8) could be a powerful, good angel, like the one who will restrain Satan at Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Revelation 20:1-3). The restrainer can't be God's Holy Spirit, because in the future the restrainer will be removed (2 Thessalonians 2:7b), while the Holy Spirit can never be removed because He's always omnipresent (Psalms 139:7-10). Similarly, the restrainer can't be the Church or the Holy Spirit in the Church, because the Church won't be removed (John 17:15,20, Proverbs 10:30), and there are no Christians outside of the Church (Ephesians 4:4-5), and no one can be a Christian without the Spirit (Romans 8:9); and the Antichrist will be allowed to physically overcome Christians in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13), just as, for example, the Roman emperors and Satan were allowed to physically overcome some Christians in the 1st century AD (e.g. Revelation 2:10). Also, Mark 13:11b expressly shows the Holy Spirit will still be with Christians during the future Tribulation.

    Also, the Tribulation passage of Revelation 14:12-13 is the same idea as 1 Thessalonians 5:10-11, meaning obedient Christians can have the comfort of God's Holy Spirit at any time (John 14:15-17), in any tribulation (2 Corinthians 1:4-7), no matter whether they live or die.
     
  17. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is nothing in what I have posted that either states or infers there will be any born again Christian left behind when Jesus comes for all of us who belong to Him, in Jn.14:2-3, 28; 1 Thess.4:17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8. Review my post #10.


    Quasar92
     
  18. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  19. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Your claim the rapture of the Church is post trib, is completely non-Scriptural. Review my post #10 for the proper timing of the rapture of the Church, which reveals it WILL COME WITH Jesus when He returns from His marriage to the Bride/Church in heaven, as documented in Rev.19:7-8 and 14. Nowhere in the Bible does anyone meet Jesus in the sky, at His second advent, as the Church will do, seven years before.


    Quasar92
     
  20. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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