Global Flood?

Yekcidmij

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I want to present two things, but reflect the same general idea, that I think indicate that a global flood is not in view in Genesis. The points here are that there are specific people/groups besides Noah and his family that survive the flood. The first is the Nephilim who we run across just prior to the rain (Gen 6) and who also are living in the land after the Exodus (Num 13). The second is the survival of descendents of Cain. We run into the Cainites in several places after the flood (Gen 15, Num 24, Judg 1, Judg 4, 1 Sam 15, 1 Sam 27, 1 Sam 30) who are seen wandering the Negev region just as Genesis 4 said the descendents of Cain would be wanderers. The survival of these 2 groups of people should be an indication that the flood was not global in the way we think of it. There were people other than Noah and his family who survived.
 
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juvenissun

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I want to present two things, but reflect the same general idea, that I think indicate that a global flood is not in view in Genesis. The points here are that there are specific people/groups besides Noah and his family that survive the flood. The first is the Nephilim who we run across just prior to the rain (Gen 6) and who also are living in the land after the Exodus (Num 13). The second is the survival of descendents of Cain. We run into the Cainites in several places after the flood (Gen 15, Num 24, Judg 1, Judg 4, 1 Sam 15, 1 Sam 27, 1 Sam 30) who are seen wandering the Negev region just as Genesis 4 said the descendents of Cain would be wanderers. The survival of these 2 groups of people should be an indication that the flood was not global in the way we think of it. There were people other than Noah and his family who survived.

Are Canaanites descendants of Cain?
 
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Standing_Ultraviolet

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I think you might be referring to the Kenites, actually. They were a separate group of people who lived in the Levant (the area around Canaan and later Israel) at around the time of the Exodus, and continued living in the region for some time (Moses' father-in-law Jethro was a Kenite, and I believe that their relationship with Israel was generally positive). They had no relationship with Cain, though, other than having a name that sounds similar.
 
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Yekcidmij

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I think you might be referring to the Kenites, actually. They were a separate group of people who lived in the Levant (the area around Canaan and later Israel) at around the time of the Exodus, and continued living in the region for some time (Moses' father-in-law Jethro was a Kenite, and I believe that their relationship with Israel was generally positive). They had no relationship with Cain, though, other than having a name that sounds similar.

The name isn't simply similar, it's the same name in Hebrew.
 
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Alive_Again

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<I was talking about Cainites, not Canaanites.

Genesis 15 referred to Canaanites.
Numbers 24 referred to Kenites.
Judges 1 is Canaanite
Judges 4 is Kenite

If they were talking about Cainites, I would surmise that like the two Enochs, there were two Cains.

If the name is the same in Hebrew, I would surmise that there are more than person bearing the name. That's pretty easy to believe, right?
 
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Yekcidmij

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<I was talking about Cainites, not Canaanites.

Genesis 15 referred to Canaanites.
Numbers 24 referred to Kenites.
Judges 1 is Canaanite
Judges 4 is Kenite

If they were talking about Cainites, I would surmise that like the two Enochs, there were two Cains.

If the name is the same in Hebrew, I would surmise that there are more than person bearing the name. That's pretty easy to believe, right?

Cainite - cf: Judg 1:16, Gen 15:19; not "Canaanite".
 
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Alive_Again

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And the children of the Kenite, Moses' father in law, went up out of the city of palm trees with the children of Judah into the wilderness of Judah, which lieth in the south of Arad; and they went and dwelt among the people. Judges 1:16 (KJV)


And Judah went with Simeon his brother, and they slew the Canaanites that inhabited Zephath, and utterly destroyed it.
Judges 1:17 (KJV)

The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, Gen 15:19 (KJV)
 
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marktheblake

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The name isn't simply similar, it's the same name in Hebrew.

There is a London in the USA (apparently), is it the same people?

No, just because a similar or familiar name is used doesn't mean anything. Only 8 people survived the flood, but they would have bought history with them, whether written or verbal.

It makes sense that old names were rebirthed. There is no good reason to suggest otherwise.
 
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Yekcidmij

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There is a London in the USA (apparently), is it the same people?

No, just because a similar or familiar name is used doesn't mean anything. Only 8 people survived the flood, but they would have bought history with them, whether written or verbal.

It makes sense that old names were rebirthed. There is no good reason to suggest otherwise.

It's not simply that the names are identical. It's also that the Cainites are wandering the Negev desert which goes well with carrying out the curse of Cain. It's also that if the Cainites are not connected to Cain, then it appears they would be the only people-group in Genesis to not be given an origin/patriarch. It seems to me that the author of Genesis has deliberately explained the origin of the peoples in Genesis; Cain is no exception. These are good reasons to believe that the Cainites are descendents of Cain. I see no good reason to believe otherwise.
 
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juvenissun

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It's not simply that the names are identical. It's also that the Cainites are wandering the Negev desert which goes well with carrying out the curse of Cain. It's also that if the Cainites are not connected to Cain, then it appears they would be the only people-group in Genesis to not be given an origin/patriarch. It seems to me that the author of Genesis has deliberately explained the origin of the peoples in Genesis; Cain is no exception. These are good reasons to believe that the Cainites are descendents of Cain. I see no good reason to believe otherwise.

There is a very very good reason not to do that.

You don't make the link because you don't want ask for one more trouble in the interpretation of the Global Flood. It is an unnecessary trouble. We do not use a questionable idea to question another idea.
 
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marktheblake

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These are good reasons to believe that the Cainites are descendents of Cain. I see no good reason to believe otherwise.

It is pretty clear that your good reason to beleive this is to deny a global flood.
 
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Yekcidmij

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It is pretty clear that your good reason to beleive this is to deny a global flood.

That has nothing to do with my reasoning. My motives are quite independent of what I have posted. It wouldl be a logical conclusion though that if there are people-groups around before and after the flood, who weren't on the ark, then it wasn't a global flood.
 
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juvenissun

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That has nothing to do with my reasoning. My motives are quite independent of what I have posted. It wouldl be a logical conclusion though that if there are people-groups around before and after the flood, who weren't on the ark, then it wasn't a global flood.

You need to evaluate the big IF first. If it has less than 50% to be correct, then do not use that if.
 
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