Given no new selection pressures, the peak adaptation of a species need not provoke change

It's always...

  • a monkey before its a man

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • a certain number of monkeys before its a man

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • a certain change in a number of monkeys before its a man

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • a constant certain change in a number of monkeys before its a man

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • a forgotten concept, that the next monkey should be more ready to be a man

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • a meaningless hope, that if we fail to be human, we can always go back to being a monkey

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • a pointless point, that the first to develop most like a monkey is the most man

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • this whole poll is Evolutional speculation, which has no bearing on how much of a monkey I want be

    Votes: 1 100.0%

  • Total voters
    1

Gottservant

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Hi there,

So it seems evident that there is a massive unknown, here: what if there are no "new" selection pressures? What if the driving force behind change, is answered? Would you say 'no, Evolution needs to invent selection pressures, to provoke itself with'? What would be the sense of that? Can you see that metaphysically, Evolution is wide open on the blind-side that nothing would then remain strong to protect Evolution from universal decay? And sudden decline from the peak (achieved by struggling with mortality, not beating it)? The peak is only the peak, if you defend it.

The creativity of this, is that there might be multiple selection pressures which we could create, to our benefit: sort of like introducing the concept of "saving money" to a child, when they could, with the same upbringing, simply spend the money? This is the question of agency, right? Do we yield to pressures against or despite us, or do we trust in the eventuality of it all - creating culture around sustaining adaptation, whatever that adaptation might be. I mean when do we begin to take ownership of it - it's a like a leaky hole in the side of the theory, that life can escape you, while you are hoping it will change: how much can you afford to let go, before you realise "I'm never getting more out of this, than I already imagined might be missing?"?

I mean think about it: why not flex our Evolutional muscle? We could go back to monkey, then human, then monkey, then human, then monkey, then human - and our humanity would only ever get greater, with one small caveat, both monkey and human might be a less pressured set than was thought and the pursuit of it, a danger to both or more. This is not remarkable, I actually mean 'what is the process'? Why is it that you permit one change after another, to the history of humanity, without going back to any of them - which is a complete deficit of the imagination? Can you see there are more links being questioned here, than is productive?

I am happy to let it rest, if you insist that my Creation was reliant on a desire to be One with Christ, as it were, from the outside - finally finding my way in, through faith in His Death on the Cross. I mean you wouldn't call multiple interpretations of the "Cross" an 'Evolution', why suppose at all that something more obscure would solve it? You don't have the head, for multiple gospels, why ask for it to be prolonged? Leave me out of it, I don't want to be a human at all, if you can't get that idea through your head, that I am not the victim, but the peak of the only Evolution you are ever going to get - the One in Jesus!

Give it some thought: how many changes is it going to take, before you are overwhelmed with the desire to just be the way you were - making the whole question of the past simpler, not more complex. You have it within you, to be decisive - and not bristle against the idea that you are not surrounded by apes as much as you think you are.

Word.
 

Warden_of_the_Storm

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To be fair, you are asking a slightly good question (though you then trail off into nonsense as usual).

Take the extinct dodo bird of Mauritius. When it was alive, there was very little competition on the island for food with land crabs. However, with the arrival of humans, who brought in deforestation to the dodo's natural habitats along with animals that would compete with the dodo for food; dogs, cats, pigs, macaques and rats, animals that both competed with the dodo for food along with actively hunting the dodo's nests, which eventually ended up call culminating in the dodo's extinction.

It died out because a new host of selection pressures were introduced to its island and it was not able to adapt to them at all.

Selection pressures are... finnicky. They can be as sudden as a change in the weather due to volcanic eruptions on the other side of the planet throwing up ash into the air, or a sudden cold snap brought about by a change in jet streams. They can be things like the migration of a new species of animal from one location to another because of said events, thus bringing them into conflict with the species' already existing in a location.
 
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SigurdReginson

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To be fair, you are asking a slightly good question (though you then trail off into nonsense as usual).

Take the extinct dodo bird of Mauritius. When it was alive, there was very little competition on the island for food with land crabs. However, with the arrival of humans, who brought in deforestation to the dodo's natural habitats along with animals that would compete with the dodo for food; dogs, cats, pigs, macaques and rats, animals that both competed with the dodo for food along with actively hunting the dodo's nests, which eventually ended up call culminating in the dodo's extinction.

It died out because a new host of selection pressures were introduced to its island and it was not able to adapt to them at all.

Selection pressures are... finnicky. They can be as sudden as a change in the weather due to volcanic eruptions on the other side of the planet throwing up ash into the air, or a sudden cold snap brought about by a change in jet streams. They can be things like the migration of a new species of animal from one location to another because of said events, thus bringing them into conflict with the species' already existing in a location.

Yup, and then you have the issue of convergent evolution. certain pressures push evolution into certain directions until you see vastly different animal types taking on the same body plans. Once they achieve those body plans, they don't really need to change all that much.

hqdefault.jpg
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Yup, and then you have the issue of convergent evolution. certain pressures push evolution into certain directions until you see vastly different animal types taking on the same body plans. Once they achieve those body plans, they don't really need to change all that much.

hqdefault.jpg

Then there's also the evolutionary niches that are really so well done that body plans do not really need to change for millenia.
Sharks are a good example, along with crocodiles.
 
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Frank Robert

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Hi there,

So it seems evident that there is a massive unknown, here: what if there are no "new" selection pressures? What if the driving force behind change, is answered?
You just described nirvana: "a transcendent state in which there is neither suffering, desire, nor sense of self, and the subject is released from the effects of karma and the cycle of death and rebirth."
 
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SkyWriting

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Hi there,

So it seems evident that there is a massive unknown, here: what if there are no "new" selection pressures? What if the driving force behind change, is answered? Would you say 'no, Evolution needs to invent selection pressures, to provoke itself with'? What would be the sense of that? Can you see that metaphysically, Evolution is wide open on the blind-side that nothing would then remain strong to protect Evolution from universal decay? And sudden decline from the peak (achieved by struggling with mortality, not beating it)? The peak is only the peak, if you defend it.

The creativity of this, is that there might be multiple selection pressures which we could create, to our benefit: sort of like introducing the concept of "saving money" to a child, when they could, with the same upbringing, simply spend the money? This is the question of agency, right? Do we yield to pressures against or despite us, or do we trust in the eventuality of it all - creating culture around sustaining adaptation, whatever that adaptation might be. I mean when do we begin to take ownership of it - it's a like a leaky hole in the side of the theory, that life can escape you, while you are hoping it will change: how much can you afford to let go, before you realise "I'm never getting more out of this, than I already imagined might be missing?"?

I mean think about it: why not flex our Evolutional muscle? We could go back to monkey, then human, then monkey, then human, then monkey, then human - and our humanity would only ever get greater, with one small caveat, both monkey and human might be a less pressured set than was thought and the pursuit of it, a danger to both or more. This is not remarkable, I actually mean 'what is the process'? Why is it that you permit one change after another, to the history of humanity, without going back to any of them - which is a complete deficit of the imagination? Can you see there are more links being questioned here, than is productive?

I am happy to let it rest, if you insist that my Creation was reliant on a desire to be One with Christ, as it were, from the outside - finally finding my way in, through faith in His Death on the Cross. I mean you wouldn't call multiple interpretations of the "Cross" an 'Evolution', why suppose at all that something more obscure would solve it? You don't have the head, for multiple gospels, why ask for it to be prolonged? Leave me out of it, I don't want to be a human at all, if you can't get that idea through your head, that I am not the victim, but the peak of the only Evolution you are ever going to get - the One in Jesus!

Give it some thought: how many changes is it going to take, before you are overwhelmed with the desire to just be the way you were - making the whole question of the past simpler, not more complex. You have it within you, to be decisive - and not bristle against the idea that you are not surrounded by apes as much as you think you are.

Word.


What we call selection pressure is what God has planned.
He even planned our response to global warming.
 
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SkyWriting

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You really want to bring up determinism and freewill into this?
I wasn't planning to. But that is the basis I use for my response.

Since God controls the path/location of each electron, then that includes environmental selection pressure. For example, Jesus ate fish. This leads to less fish in the sea that have to be replaced if they are to survive. He MAY have eaten the last of a species. Hard to say. But it was all part of the Father's plan if so.

640x427-Sturgeon_European_NB_W.jpg


NOAA Fisheries
European Sturgeon

Happy to help!
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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I wasn't planning to. But that is the basis I use for my response.

Since God controls the path/location of each electron, then that includes environmental selection pressure. For example, Jesus ate fish. This leads to less fish in the sea that have to be replaced if they are to survive. He MAY have eaten the last of a species. Hard to say. But it was all part of the Father's plan if so.

It's not really related to what OP is talking about... but it is something interesting, I'll say that.
 
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SkyWriting

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