The following transcript is from a discussion from the following link:
That link will take you to a video posted by a channel called ‘askcliffe’. Cliffe Knechtle is an American pastor who for decades has been going to university campuses to give students the opportunity to ask him about Jesus Christ. This discussion in particular is an extremely broad discussion with one student. It covers almost all of the topics that he usually goes into depth with one student on each.
Student: “Why are you here today?”
Cliffe: “I’m here to introduce people to my closest friend Jesus Christ.”
Student: “What’s your purpose in doing that?”
Cliffe: “I love God & I love people. I see the gap between the two, the same way I’ve experienced a gap between God & me. I’ve found that Jesus Christ reconciles us, ties us into a spiritual relationship & gives us eternal life with God & I’d like to see you in heaven.”
Student: “So if I don’t believe in God I won’t go to heaven?”
Cliffe: “Heaven is for those who want to live together with God. Hell is for those who’ve made a decision to live their lives seperate from God. God is not going to violate your free will.”
Student: “What if I never knew about God?”
Cliffe: “God is just & all knowing. So he will judge each of us fairly based on what we know.”
Student: “What is your main argument to have people believe in Jesus Christ.”
Cliffe: “My main argument is; do not take it from me. Read the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John for yourself. Ask yourself: does the evidence point to Jesus being reliable?”
Student: “What is God?”
Cliffe: “God is a personal being who loves all of us, who revealed that by becoming man in Jesus Christ. A lot of this has to do with the reliability of Christ. If you take Christ out of the picture, you’re up a creek without a paddle trying to explain why God loves you.”
Student: “What if God is not good?”
Cliffe: “Jesus lied then, but the evidence is that Jesus didn’t lie. He said I’m going to die & rise from the dead & he pulled it off. If you die & rise from the dead I promise to listen very carefully to everything you have to say. What if I’m just a bad dream you’re having? Are you just dreaming?”
Student: “I don’t know, am I? You can’t prove it.”
Cliffe: “I can’t prove it but there’s a tone of evidence that you’re standing here. (Cliffe begins swinging his hands back & forth as approaching the student until his hand stops just before it hits his face.) Maybe you’re not real, but right about now, I have to decide.”
Student: “Lets point to Descartes. He says there’s a possibility of the evil deceiver who is as powerful as God but he works to deceive us. What if that is the reality?”
Cliffe: “The evidence is we’re not all deceived. The evidence is we can figure out that these stairs are here. That is why when I fall down these stairs I don’t get up & say “I’m glad that dream is over.” No, I say to myself “Don’t stumble down the stairs, it’s very painful.”
Student: “What evidence?”
Cliffe: “The evidence that you’re real is:
Student: “Earlier you were talking about morals. Your argument was we cannot have morals outside of God?”
Cliffe: “No that was not my argument. My argument was: if there is no God; there are no moral absolutes. Obviously if there is no God we can all create our own morality. But, that morality is relative.”
Student: “Why do you keep saying if? If you’re here defending God, why don’t you say there is a God.”
Cliffe: “Because I’m talking to a human being whom I respect, who disagrees with me.”
Student: “What makes God’s morals absolute?”
Cliffe: “If there is no God, that means there’s no mind prior to the human mind who defines what’s right & what’s wrong. Which means it’s the human mind which defines right & wrong which is all relative; depending on which human mind you’re talking to.”
Student: “Wouldn’t those morals be relative to God?”
Cliffe: “No, it means that they’re real. They’re based on the fact that you’re not an accident. You’re a human being with innate dignity. Which means if I lie to, steal from or abuse you in any way; that is evil because it is denigrating a human being created by God with innate value.”
Student: “What if that is not true? What if we are beings without value & purpose.”
Cliffe: “Then live it out.”
Student: “What does God think of me?”
Cliffe: “If Jesus Christ revealed God accurately, you & I need to ask God for forgiveness for the wrong that we’ve done.”
Student: “Earlier you were talking about purpose. Can we have absolute purpose outside of God?”
Cliffe: “No, because if there is no God, we’re cosmic accidents. When you’re dealing with purpose, you must ask: is this being or machine made by someone? If they are made by someone, what’s the purpose they are made for?
Student: “Can I not create my own objective morality?”
Cliffe: “No, you have to learn how to navigate reality. If you create reality that this is not here (points to a wall) & you walk right into it; it’s going to be a very disturbing revelation that you are going to have. If God created matter & energy & gave us minds to grapple what is real, just & unjust; then it allows us to discover what is real; not what is my perception. You’ve got to learn to deal with reality; that’s the pursuit of truth.”
That link will take you to a video posted by a channel called ‘askcliffe’. Cliffe Knechtle is an American pastor who for decades has been going to university campuses to give students the opportunity to ask him about Jesus Christ. This discussion in particular is an extremely broad discussion with one student. It covers almost all of the topics that he usually goes into depth with one student on each.
Student: “Why are you here today?”
Cliffe: “I’m here to introduce people to my closest friend Jesus Christ.”
Student: “What’s your purpose in doing that?”
Cliffe: “I love God & I love people. I see the gap between the two, the same way I’ve experienced a gap between God & me. I’ve found that Jesus Christ reconciles us, ties us into a spiritual relationship & gives us eternal life with God & I’d like to see you in heaven.”
Student: “So if I don’t believe in God I won’t go to heaven?”
Cliffe: “Heaven is for those who want to live together with God. Hell is for those who’ve made a decision to live their lives seperate from God. God is not going to violate your free will.”
Student: “What if I never knew about God?”
Cliffe: “God is just & all knowing. So he will judge each of us fairly based on what we know.”
Student: “What is your main argument to have people believe in Jesus Christ.”
Cliffe: “My main argument is; do not take it from me. Read the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John for yourself. Ask yourself: does the evidence point to Jesus being reliable?”
Student: “What is God?”
Cliffe: “God is a personal being who loves all of us, who revealed that by becoming man in Jesus Christ. A lot of this has to do with the reliability of Christ. If you take Christ out of the picture, you’re up a creek without a paddle trying to explain why God loves you.”
Student: “What if God is not good?”
Cliffe: “Jesus lied then, but the evidence is that Jesus didn’t lie. He said I’m going to die & rise from the dead & he pulled it off. If you die & rise from the dead I promise to listen very carefully to everything you have to say. What if I’m just a bad dream you’re having? Are you just dreaming?”
Student: “I don’t know, am I? You can’t prove it.”
Cliffe: “I can’t prove it but there’s a tone of evidence that you’re standing here. (Cliffe begins swinging his hands back & forth as approaching the student until his hand stops just before it hits his face.) Maybe you’re not real, but right about now, I have to decide.”
Student: “Lets point to Descartes. He says there’s a possibility of the evil deceiver who is as powerful as God but he works to deceive us. What if that is the reality?”
Cliffe: “The evidence is we’re not all deceived. The evidence is we can figure out that these stairs are here. That is why when I fall down these stairs I don’t get up & say “I’m glad that dream is over.” No, I say to myself “Don’t stumble down the stairs, it’s very painful.”
Student: “What evidence?”
Cliffe: “The evidence that you’re real is:
- I physically see you with my eyes
- I touch you with my hand and feel you
- I hear you with my ears
- I’m convinced that a rational mind is in your head is because of your articulate speech. I can’t see your brain, can’t feel it & can’t smell it. I can’t prove it, but the evidence is there.”
Student: “Earlier you were talking about morals. Your argument was we cannot have morals outside of God?”
Cliffe: “No that was not my argument. My argument was: if there is no God; there are no moral absolutes. Obviously if there is no God we can all create our own morality. But, that morality is relative.”
Student: “Why do you keep saying if? If you’re here defending God, why don’t you say there is a God.”
Cliffe: “Because I’m talking to a human being whom I respect, who disagrees with me.”
Student: “What makes God’s morals absolute?”
Cliffe: “If there is no God, that means there’s no mind prior to the human mind who defines what’s right & what’s wrong. Which means it’s the human mind which defines right & wrong which is all relative; depending on which human mind you’re talking to.”
Student: “Wouldn’t those morals be relative to God?”
Cliffe: “No, it means that they’re real. They’re based on the fact that you’re not an accident. You’re a human being with innate dignity. Which means if I lie to, steal from or abuse you in any way; that is evil because it is denigrating a human being created by God with innate value.”
Student: “What if that is not true? What if we are beings without value & purpose.”
Cliffe: “Then live it out.”
Student: “What does God think of me?”
Cliffe: “If Jesus Christ revealed God accurately, you & I need to ask God for forgiveness for the wrong that we’ve done.”
Student: “Earlier you were talking about purpose. Can we have absolute purpose outside of God?”
Cliffe: “No, because if there is no God, we’re cosmic accidents. When you’re dealing with purpose, you must ask: is this being or machine made by someone? If they are made by someone, what’s the purpose they are made for?
Student: “Can I not create my own objective morality?”
Cliffe: “No, you have to learn how to navigate reality. If you create reality that this is not here (points to a wall) & you walk right into it; it’s going to be a very disturbing revelation that you are going to have. If God created matter & energy & gave us minds to grapple what is real, just & unjust; then it allows us to discover what is real; not what is my perception. You’ve got to learn to deal with reality; that’s the pursuit of truth.”
