Girl that wrote anti gun violence essay killed with a gun

[GoldenBoy89]

I want to save the lives of innocent people. It is exactly the same objective as the checks at airports and court houses

I do too. How is that any different from disarming people? Both are done with the objective or protecting the the lives of the innocent. Both result in a constitutional infringement.

 

[disciple Clint]

I do too. How is that any different from disarming people? Both are done with the objective or protecting the the lives of the innocent. Both result in a constitutional infringement.

OK I am going to tell you one more time stop and frisk is not a violation of constitutional law.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

OK I am going to tell you one more time stop and frisk is not a violation of constitutional law.

Even if it isn't, a nationwide stop and frisk policy would be a logistical nightmare. How do you employ such a policy without turning the entire country into a full-on police state?

Do you wish to live in a giant prison? I sure don't. I'll take my chances with the occasional criminal psychopath than to give the government that much control.

 

[SummerMadness]

OK I am going to tell you one more time stop and frisk is not a violation of constitutional law.

It's just been carried out in an unconstitutional manner, how would you address this problem? Moreover, did you suggest this idea after other mass shootings? Or do you only want stop and frisk in this community?

 

[disciple Clint]

It's just been carried out in an unconstitutional manner, how would you address this problem? Moreover, did you suggest this idea after other mass shootings? Or do you only want stop and frisk in this community?

I think it should be used where it is needed. Are you advertising for Black Lives Mater on here, every post seems to have a billboard

 

[disciple Clint]

Even if it isn't, a nationwide stop and frisk policy would be a logistical nightmare. How do you employ such a policy without turning the entire country into a full-on police state?

Do you wish to live in giant prison? I sure don't. I'll take my chances with the occasional criminal psychopath than to give the government that much control.

As will I, but we are trying to find a way to protect innocent children just going about their daily lives from people who shoot at anything and everything. I dont mind some inconvenience myself if it saves a life.

 

[SummerMadness]

I think it should be used where it is needed. Are you advertising for Black Lives Mater on here, every post seems to have a billboard

Do you consider everywhere there is a shooting a candidate for stop and frisk?

 

[disciple Clint]

Do you consider everywhere there is a shooting a candidate for stop and frisk?

I think it would be best to start where the most shootings happen so that hopefully the results of saving some lives will most likely be maximized. I would just use the statics and go with that. If it is going to work and I think it should, it would then be worth it to use it in other high shooting risk areas. What do you think would provide the best results for saving kids?

 

[SummerMadness]

I think it would be best to start where the most shootings happen so that hopefully the results of saving some lives will most likely be maximized. I would just use the statics and go with that. If it is going to work and I think it should, it would then be worth it to use it in other high shooting risk areas. What do you think would provide the best results for saving kids?

Most school shootings happen in small town America, perhaps we should start there if we're going to protect kids. Of course stopping and frisking everyone that lives in a small town will not work.

 

[disciple Clint]

Most school shootings happen in small town America, perhaps we should start there if we're going to protect kids. Of course stopping and frisking everyone that lives in a small town will not work.

Good point. Where do we have the largest number of shooting of children on a consistent month to month basis?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yeah, I am going to generalize someone who walks into a church or a synagogue or an Amish school or an elementary school and opens fire as "mentally unstable" because I'm just not going to put that behavior into the category of "sane," not even for the US.

Yeah, I am going to generalize someone who walks into a church or a synagogue or an Amish school or an elementary school and opens fire as "mentally unstable" because I'm just not going to put that behavior into the category of "sane," not even for the US.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ps...ing-and-the-myth-the-violent-mentally-ill?amp

 

[SummerMadness]

Good point. Where do we have the largest number of shooting of children on a consistent month to month basis?

Most children are killed by suicide. Stop and frisk will not change that; it's a bad solution and has consistently been used in an unconstitutional manner.

 

[RDKirk]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/minding-the-mind/201802/mass-shooting-and-the-myth-the-violent-mentally-ill?amp

That article is arguing that not all mentally ill people are violent.

It's a strawman--nobody asserts that all mentally ill people are violent.

 

[disciple Clint]

Most children are killed by suicide. Stop and frisk will not change that; it's a bad solution and has consistently been used in an unconstitutional manner.

Well that did not answer the question did it and you haven't indicated if you have any ideas for a solution to innocent children being shot, so how about a positive reply.

 

[dgiharris]

One question. Why would a person conducting a legal business buying product from other legal businesses need to deal in cash? That is just not normal.

There are several legitimate answers to that question.
#1, as a business owner you get up to 20% discounts when dealing in cash
#2, as a business owner doing different sized quantity purchases from multiple vendors, cash is faster (some vendors require up to a 5 day wait period for checks to clear. Similarly, bank to bank transfers can take up to 2 business days)
#3, check verification and bank to bank transfers do NOT work on the weekends and holidays with banks.
#4, As a law abiding tax paying citizen who has NEVER BROKEN THE LAW, you should not fear the government taking your money just because they feel like it
#5, it is NOT against the law to deal in cash, no matter the amount of cash you wish to deal in.

Dealing in large cash quantities is VERY common especially when you are buying items you need to inspect "on site" before you purchase said item.

Similarly, I don't understand an attitude that supports the State against an innocent law abiding citizen. "Freedom and Liberty" mean you are free to do whatever you want as long as you don't break the law. A lawful citizen with paperwork proving his legitimate business should NEVER fear the government under any circumstance. Why don't you agree with that argument? Serious question?

 

[dgiharris]

Talk of arming teachers is a red herring. Talk of gun control is also a red herring.

The root of the problem is not mentally unstable persons getting access to firearms, the root is a culture that creates so many homicidal mentally unstable people.

I'm not sure you want to go down that path.
#1) I am unaware of any culture that does NOT produce homicidal mentally unstable.
#2) We supposedly live in a free society-- that freedom entails the first amendment which allows freedom of speech.

I think mental health sciences are 100 years away from being able to tell you what it is about "our culture" that produces mentally unstable people. We can easily derail to a 100 pages of nature vs nurture debate on mental health...

But your argument, that is, attributing the root problem to "culture" and advocating we fix our culture is both impossible and would seriously lead to a tyrannical form of government. We'd have to nix the first amendment and I for one do not want to live in a society where freedom of speech/thought is illegal.

So I will argue quite simply that it is beyond our technical and medical capabilities at present to fix the root cause of the problem as you see it, we do not have the ability to fix the culture. So, I would argue that you go the next rung up the root cause ladder, and that would be identifying and preventing mentally unstable people from getting guns. That solution is something that is within our capabilities to do with some reasonable probability of success.

Currently, there is absolutely no linkage whatsoever between mental health facilities, mental health drug prescriptions, requests for gun ownership, and mental health screenings / assessments of people wishing to buy guns. Similarly, there is no ongoing requirement for mental health assessments once you purchase a gun. As a nation, we really don't have a periodic requirement for citizens to get mental health screenings. Would be nice if we were to get a quick and dirty mental health screening every time we needed to renew our driver's license.

Since I'm eating pie-in-the-sky fantasies, I'd also wish for a national health care system enabling periodic mental health screenings when you get your physicals...

 

[dgiharris]

This has nothing to do with the points you raised....but I wonder why he just didnt bank it. Having 200K in a bag must surely be a major risk that's so avoidable.

Truth be told, having 200k in a bag is not a major risk. I work with people who do large cash transactions all the time. It is more common than you think.

To answer your question, the reason he didn't "bank it" was because he was going to do a high frequency of cash transactions within the next day so he actually "needed it". One thing of note is you often get up to 20% discounts when dealing in cash. Another problem is that check and bank verification isn't available during weekends... There are a host of legitimate reasons why many business owners deal in cash and he was NOT breaking the law. Click here for more reasons

Secondly, it does have to do with my point I raised. The point had to do with Stop and Frisk and I was arguing the Unintended Consequences of bad laws.

The State will use and abuse any law. They do it all the time.

As a free society, we really do not want to encourage laws that curtail or infringe upon our freedoms and liberties. And Stop and Frisk does just that.

 

[dgiharris]

I hate to ask but do you have any evidence. I am not trying to argue with you I just want to know if this happened or if someone told you it happened and now you are saying it happened based on what you were told by someone that you trust.

No worries, I don't mind.

I don't have time to find the specific link right now, I actually saw the case I was talking about on TV in one of those 20/20 type news pieces about 12 years ago...

but the situation I talk about happens all the time
CLICK HERE FOR LINKS

It is called "Civil Forfeiture" and it is a huge problem that doesn't get the press that it should.

 

[RDKirk]

I'm not sure you want to go down that path.
#1) I am unaware of any culture that does NOT produce homicidal mentally unstable.
#2) We supposedly live in a free society-- that freedom entails the first amendment which allows freedom of speech.

I think mental health sciences are 100 years away from being able to tell you what it is about "our culture" that produces mentally unstable people. We can easily derail to a 100 pages of nature vs nurture debate on mental health...

But your argument, that is, attributing the root problem to "culture" and advocating we fix our culture is both impossible and would seriously lead to a tyrannical form of government. We'd have to nix the first amendment and I for one do not want to live in a society where freedom of speech/thought is illegal.

So I will argue quite simply that it is beyond our technical and medical capabilities at present to fix the root cause of the problem as you see it, we do not have the ability to fix the culture. So, I would argue that you go the next rung up the root cause ladder, and that would be identifying and preventing mentally unstable people from getting guns. That solution is something that is within our capabilities to do with some reasonable probability of success.

Currently, there is absolutely no linkage whatsoever between mental health facilities, mental health drug prescriptions, requests for gun ownership, and mental health screenings / assessments of people wishing to buy guns. Similarly, there is no ongoing requirement for mental health assessments once you purchase a gun. As a nation, we really don't have a periodic requirement for citizens to get mental health screenings. Would be nice if we were to get a quick and dirty mental health screening every time we needed to renew our driver's license.

Since I'm eating pie-in-the-sky fantasies, I'd also wish for a national health care system enabling periodic mental health screenings when you get your physicals...

You say we can't identify what in our culture causes such problems, which means we can't pre-emptively identify individuals who have such problems. And we already know that.

And our culture as it is has gun ownership so deeply embedded, both physically and philosophically, that it can't be changed without Draconian measures that would require abrogating four of the first five amendments.

If there is nothing we can do to change the culture, then you propose doing nothing at all.

But I'd argue that we can change the culture--or else, let's also give up on racism and misogyny.

 

[RDKirk]

No worries, I don't mind.

I don't have time to find the specific link right now, I actually saw the case I was talking about on TV in one of those 20/20 type news pieces about 12 years ago...

but the situation I talk about happens all the time
CLICK HERE FOR LINKS

It is called "Civil Forfeiture" and it is a huge problem that doesn't get the press that it should.

One of the many problems and enticements is that most states do not require an audit of the personal assets seized by police departments. It's "off the books" money, a true slush fund, that police can spend as they desire.

Of course they're going to abuse such power.