Gihon River contradiction

colen

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In Genesis 2:13 it says:
"And the name of the second river: Gihon; this is the river that flows around the whole country of Cush."

We remember that the Gihon River flows around Cush, which was in Yemen and NOT in Ethiopia.

But now look what 2 Chronicles 33:14 says:

And after that he built the outer wall of the city of David, westward against Gihon

The city of David was westward against Gihon, which means that the Gihon River was in the territory of Israel, and that means then also that Cush and Israel were neighbours.
But if Israel was in Palestine, then this makes no sense. Cush that was in Yemen was not that far away from Israel. They were close together, Israel, Msrm (mistakenly translated as Egypt) and Cush (mistakenly translated as Ethiopia) were neighbors. And they were all in Western Arabia, from Yemen to Mecca.
Isn't it interesting that right there are the holy cities of Islam, Medina and Mecca? What a coincidence!
 

colen

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An addition to my #1 post:
The funny thing is, if Ethiopia or Sudan were really Cush it would make no sense at all! Because the river would have to pass through Egypt and Arabia to get there, if that were the case, the Bible would not explicitly say Cush, but "Arabia and/or Msrm". Therefore the Garden of Eden and its rivers cannot be in Mesapotamia too! All this would break!
How funny!
 
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colen

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A second additon to my #1 post:

The "Bible scholars" admit that Sheba was in Yemen but not in Cush. What a nonsense! Sheba is in Cush, it belongs to Cush. The statement that Sheba was not in Cush is like saying that California is not in the USA!

Genesis 10:7
And the sons of Cush: ...Raamah... And the sons of Raamah: Sheba...
 
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dqhall

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A second additon to my #1 post:

The "Bible scholars" admit that Sheba was in Yemen but not in Cush. What a nonsense! Sheba is in Cush, it belongs to Cush. The statement that Sheba was not in Cush is like saying that California is not in the USA!

Genesis 10:7
And the sons of Cush: ...Raamah... And the sons of Raamah: Sheba...
There is a Washington, D.C., a Washington, Indiana and a Washington, Texas.

The Gihon Spring is in a Jerusalem. King Hezekiah built a tunnel to divert its waters to the Pool of Siloam at the southern end of the city.
 
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colen

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There is a Washington, D.C., a Washington, Indiana and a Washington, Texas.
According to the Bible, there is only one Sheba, or can you prove me wrong?
The Gihon Spring is in a Jerusalem. King Hezekiah built a tunnel to divert its waters to the Pool of Siloam at the southern end of the city.
Wait a minute, where's that in the Bible? :
...to the Pool of Siloam at the southern end of the city.

And yes it is true, Hezekiah blocked the upper outlet of the waters of Gihon and led them under the earth to the west to the city of David. But it still confirms that the Gihon must be near the city of David, so that he was able to divert it and therefore Cush must have been a direct neighbor of Israel.
 
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Radagast

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The funny thing is, if Ethiopia or Sudan were really Cush it would make no sense at all!

There is no need for this kind of ridiculous speculation, because we know that Cush was in Sudan, from historical records. At one point, Cush conquered Egypt, at other times Egypt conquered Cush. The Pyramids of Cush still exist.

Sudan_Meroe_Pyramids_2001.JPG


2 Kings 19:9 tells us "Now Sennacherib received a report that Tirhakah, the king of Cush, was marching out to fight against him. So he again sent messengers to Hezekiah..."

All these people can be dated, and Tirhakah (Taharqa) was one of the "black pharaohs," because Cush ruled Egypt at that point. Here he is:

768px-Taharqo%2C_Black_Pharaohs_Cache_%28Dukki_Gel_%29_%2C_Kerma_Museum%2CSudan_%282%29.jpg
 
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Radagast

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The Gihon Spring is in a Jerusalem. King Hezekiah built a tunnel to divert its waters to the Pool of Siloam at the southern end of the city.

And clearly that's not the same as the Gihon River, it just shares the name (which means "bursting forth").
 
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colen

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because we know that Cush was in Sudan, from historical records.
This "historical records" taken mainly by the Egyptians is inauthentic compared to the Bible. I take the Bible as a source, but you use the word of people who believed that cats were gods as a source.
At one point, Cush conquered Egypt, at other times Egypt conquered Cush. The Pyramids of Cush still exist.
Egypt has never conquered Cush, you only take non-biblical sources.
All these people can be dated, and Tirhakah (Taharqa) was one of the "black pharaohs," because Cush ruled Egypt at that point. Here he is:
Egypt and Sudan had no Pharaohs, the kings of Egypt never called themselves that. And Egypt was never called "Msrm", their ancient name was "Kemet".
And clearly that's not the same as the Gihon River, it just shares the name (which means "bursting forth").
Where in the Bible does it say that there are two Gihon rivers? Why do you claim something that is not in the Bible?
 
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1213

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In Genesis 2:13 it says:
"And the name of the second river: Gihon; this is the river that flows around the whole country of Cush."

We remember that the Gihon River flows around Cush, which was in Yemen and NOT in Ethiopia....

Please tell, why do you believe that is true?
 
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colen

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Please tell, why do you believe that is true?
We know from the Bible that Cush, Israel and Msrm were neighbors, so we should find out where Msrm and Israel were to find out where Cush was, and Cush was in the southwestern part of Arabia (including Yemen).
Salibi says, "As far as Palestine is concerned, there is a lot of ambiguity about the location of the ancient biblical events, which is very much in line with my theory. Salibi noted, "For the origin of the Hebrews from Mesopotamia and their encouraged migration from there through northern Syria to Palestine, traces have been sought for over a century, but never really found. Likewise, no real and undisputed trace of Israelite captivity in Egypt or of any Israelite exodus from there has been discovered to date. Also a migration path of the Israelites from Egypt through the Sinai to Palestine and the so-called land grab in the area of today's Palestine could not be traced satisfactorily by any biblical scholar up to now."

Then Salibi began, on the basis of his index of place names, "to transfer one Bible passage after the other to the map of southwestern Arabia, and lo and behold, everything seemed to fit".

However, as he works exclusively with place names in his work, Salibi makes one important restriction: "Before the thesis that this work establishes can be considered as certain, the archaeologists would have to confirm the linguistic findings with their methods".

And Salibi probably has some time left. Archaeologists have not yet been allowed to dig at the presumed biblical sites in Asir. For the Saudi Arabian rulers, the province of Asir, which they only incorporated into their empire in the 1930s, is still an occupied territory today.

Asir is more strictly shielded from foreigners than the communist Balkan state of Albania. Even the US military advisers who are setting up a listening station in Asir and building a military airport to replace the Eritrean Asmara are only allowed to move outside their bases when accompanied by Saudi officers.

There are also religious reasons for this policy of isolation: In a country whose inhabitants were forcibly Islamized, all traces of the time before Mohammed are to be erased - embarrassing enough that some, such as the walls of the domed church of Narjan, have been preserved.
Thus, Salibi's findings remain at first only a game with words, a game, however, that could be suitable to put research into turmoil.
For place names, says Salibi - and quite a few Bible scholars are of the same opinion - "record history, freeze it". Research into place names even has an advantage over archaeology. Salibi: "While archaeological finds, if they have no inscriptions, are mute, place names speak a very clear language".

Salibi attempts to extract information from his finds in five stages: Stage 1: He identifies place names in Western Arabia that come from a language that is consonantally identical to Biblical Hebrew or Biblical Aramaic" (in both Arabic and Hebrew script, only consonants are noted). Step 2: He finds that a large number of these Hebrew-stemmed place names appear in the Bible, "while only a few of the biblical place names have their living counterparts in Palestine". Step 3: He finds that "in other areas of the Arabian Peninsula or in other parts of the Middle East" there are no equivalents to the biblical place names, at least "not to the same extent as in Western Arabia". Step 4: He proves that the West Arabic correspondences of biblical place names also fit in with the statements made by the biblical text about the place in question and its relationship to other places - the West Arabic places fit into the biblical coordinate system "better than in Palestinian". Step 5: He tries extra-biblical - especially Egyptian and Mesopotamian (With Dome of the Rock and Wailing Wall)

to read sources in which biblical names appear with regard to his findings. Result: "Even then, the Bible fits in with Asir."

According to the First Book of Moses, the history of the Jewish people began with "Abram the Hebrew" who moved from Ur in Chaldea to Canaan at God's command and became (with the name of Abraham) the progenitor of the progenitors of Israel.

According to Salibi, the Hebrews were originally a Western Arab tribe living in the forests of the highlands of Asir. In the Saudi Arabian local register, Salibi found a place called Al al-Gabaran, translated as "God of the Forests"; and in it was the Arabic form of the name "Hebrews. Abraham's place of origin, so far - as Salibi says: wrong - translated as "Ur in Chaldea" and located in Mesopotamia, is supposed to be today's place Warya in the Wadi (dry valley) Adam.

The wanderings of Abraham described in Genesis 11:31 to 13:18 are believed by Salibi to have been proven place by place in Western Arabia: the biblical Haran in the southwest Arabian Nahra, the biblical Sichem in today's al-Kasma, More in today's Marwa. Salibi found the biblical sites Beth-El and Ai in the southwest Arabian Batila and Gayy.

One of the most famous stories from the first book of Moses, the story of Joseph, who was sold by his brothers as a slave to "Egypt" and made a career at the court of the Pharaoh, also loses colour with Salibi: For Egypt, the Hebrew text contains the sequence of letters msrym, and this corresponds to the Western Arabic place name Misrama. It is the same Misrama that the progenitor Abraham had already visited to escape a famine.
Somewhat more modestly than in previous Bible translations, Salibi refers to the land that God promised to Abraham - according to Genesis 15:18, the land "from the waters of Egypt unto the great river Euphrates. Salibi identifies the area in Asir between Lith and Jizan.

What our Bibles translate here as "the waters of Egypt" is, according to Salibi, the river near Misrama, namely the Wadi Itwad. And what our Bibles translate as "Euphrates" is, according to Salibi, the western Arabian river of Farat, namely the Wadi Adam.

In the area of the southwest Arabian Misrama, and not in Egypt, the Israelites were also in the so-called Egyptian captivity. And when their leader Moses freed them from their captivity, he led his people first through the Wadi Itwad, which is about three kilometres wide and often turns into a raging torrent for days after the annual rains - and not through the Red Sea, as was usually assumed up to now.

Within minutes, the wadi can lose its water masses, only to be flooded by new tidal waves shortly afterwards - as described in Exodus 14: God "dried up the sea and the waters parted company".

From there, Moses led the Israelites into the great Arab desert east of Asir. Salibi believes to have found Mount Horeb, on which Moses received the Ten Commandments, near the present-day town of Harib.

The land that YHWH promised to Moses (Genesis 34:1-12), the land "Canaan according to its borders", is, according to Salibi, nothing more than Western Arabia between Mecca in the north, North Yemen in the south, the Red Sea in the west and the Central Arabian desert in the east.
Salibi traces the boundaries mentioned in the Bible place by place down there: for example "the great sea" as the Red Sea (and not the Mediterranean Sea), the "Zin Desert near Edom" in today's Zin Oasis along the Wadi Idima, Mount Hor as the mountain range of al-Harra, the biblical Sepham as today's al-Tafan.

If you want to know more: https://www.free-minds.org/sites/default/files/Sheba.pdf and Salibi's book: "The Bible came from arabia"
 
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1213

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We know from the Bible that Cush, Israel and Msrm were neighbors, so we should find out where Msrm and Israel were to find out where Cush was, and Cush was in the southwestern part of Arabia (including Yemen).
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Sorry, I don’t think you answered to my question. However, Genesis 2:13 is before the great flood. Bible tells that in the beginning there was basically only one continent and by what it tells, I believe that original continent was broken, collapsed partially during the great flood. After the flood earth (dry land) was not as it was before the flood. That is why I think Genesis 2:13 is not valid for determining accurately where Cush is in current situation.
 
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