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Gifts of the Spirit
- Thread starter JRSut1000
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yedida
Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
Praying for the wee one.
Putting her in a lukewarm bath will often help get the temp down some. Unless a temp of 101 or less is making her really miserable, it's good to let it run its course, keeping a very watchful eye on it. A fever is nothing more than the body fighting an infection and usually does a pretty good job of it. But if she is being extremely negatively affected by the risen temp, then it's good to try to get it all the way down.
Praying for your health as well.
Putting her in a lukewarm bath will often help get the temp down some. Unless a temp of 101 or less is making her really miserable, it's good to let it run its course, keeping a very watchful eye on it. A fever is nothing more than the body fighting an infection and usually does a pretty good job of it. But if she is being extremely negatively affected by the risen temp, then it's good to try to get it all the way down.
Praying for your health as well.
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yedida
Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
I believe those gifts are of God and active today - BUT I don't really see where they actually "fit" into a worship service in any other way than what we witness right here on this forum.
In other words, I don't see people standing up and delivering a generalized KJV version of something that could have come out of Isaiah or Daniel. I see this as nothing more than showiness, pride. Nothing really is gained by it
On the other hand, a stranger approaching our other poster after the meeting telling her that her loved one is now resting easily is perfectly reasonable and edifying (our poster having left her child with her husband so she could go to church for spiritual strength).
It may just be me, or the churches I once attended (and you couldn't pay me enough to ever go back) but all that popping up and spouting off random phrases one person after another just doesn't really appear to be the gifts in their proper use.
The gifts were real in the first century and they are real and active today, but not in the fashion that I used to see them. They are for uplifting and edification and for the non-believers.
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Avodat
Contending for Biblical truth
I know of very few people who use the KJV! We had one guy who told me it was the only correct Bible available - so I pointed him to that part of the account just before Yeshua was hanged on the cross, when the people had to choose between him and another man. I asked him what the other man's name was in the KJV - 'Barabbas' he said. It was actually, bar Abba, I pointed out. Then I asked who betrayed Yeshua - Judas Iscariot, says he. There's another little problem, I said. That is not his name, it is almost a sentence: Y'hudah ish K'riot which, roughly translated, reads Judas (the) man (from) K'riot. The man realised that even the KJV had these oddities in it, and he treated people with other versions with some respect after that private chat.
Paul tells us very clearly of the need for good order - he even stipulates what should happen if more that one person wants to speak in tongues, or to give a prophecy. It's not really G_d's fault, and doesn't negate the value of his gifts, when men act outside of his teaching. The best bet there is to vote with your feet - as you and others have done. But we should not turn our back on these things, though, no matter our experience at the hand of men. Even more incentive to go for it and show the right way that is based on love and care, not for showmanship or fundraising.
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Little Dove
Little Dove
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Praying for your daughter JR & you also. Congrats! May the Lord keep watch over you & keep you safe in his arms.
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Little Dove
Little Dove
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In John 7:38 where it says; out of his belly, shall flow rivers of living waters.
Has the Spirit, ever moved on any of you, like this ?
Has the Spirit, ever moved on any of you, like this ?
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I believe these also are in order today, Paul stressed prophecy. "Beloved I wish above you that you may prophesy". I believe this is because prophecy directly edifies and exhorts the body of Christ whereas tongues was confused both then and now. (why do you think Paul stressed the importance of order and taking turns and not turning off strangers who may walk into the meetings?)
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Lulav
Y'shua is His Name
Hi JR, How's your daughter doing? I hope her fever came down and she's feeling better?
Regarding prophecy, I don't think that true prophecy is supposed to edify anyone. Prophecy of future events such as the L-RD coming back and such have already been made.
Prophecies actually were meant to warn G-ds people, basically to get in line or such and such would happen. This is not what people want to hear. They want to have their ears tickled and hear something to say 'Halleluyah! ' to. Most likely something that benefits them, nothing that tells them where they are going wrong. That is why I believe 99.9% of 'prophetic utterings' are false, they are not from G-d, even if they use scripture to back them up.
As far as tongues the way I understand it, they were only used for unbelievers as a sign to help them believe, knowing that it was from G-d. Today that same sign could be very easily duplicated with all the education available around the planet. Anyone could learn to speak another persons language so it would be no miracle.
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I see prophecy and words of knowledge as in the same category. Sometimes its for a people as a whole, sometimes a congregation, and sometimes an individual.
Tongues is something that I think has really been taken too far by the general charismatic community.
AND my daughter is doing much better, thanks so much for asking!
Tongues is something that I think has really been taken too far by the general charismatic community.
AND my daughter is doing much better, thanks so much for asking!
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Lulav
Y'shua is His Name
I see prophecy and words of knowledge as in the same category. Sometimes its for a people as a whole, sometimes a congregation, and sometimes an individual.
Tongues is something that I think has really been taken too far by the general charismatic community.
AND my daughter is doing much better, thanks so much for asking!
I'm glad to hear that, Baruch HaShem!
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ananda
Early Buddhist
We, as believers, are all branches of the Root - Messiah. As the branches partake of whatever the root provides, in the same way, whatever gifts Messiah has, we have the potential to access all of the same. As Messiah said, if we have trust like a grain of mustard seed, we can move mountains.
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yedida
Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
The 6 that Netzarim called off are in the Greek Writings. If you are grasping for tongues as they are practiced today, I don't think that's what's spoken of in the letters of Paul. Yes, he says something about "moanings that cannot be uttered" - listen to a Jewish Niggun and you might understand what he's talking about. But today's "tongues" cannot be equated with that verse as those "tongues" are definitely uttered, so loud the whole building hears it.
Yes, Paul mentions a "heavenly language" but he also links that to "in your closet," not out in public at a worship service.
If a person is moved upon to speak in an unknown language at such a place as a church or synagogue then I'm fully convinced that, if it is of God, it is going to be a language known to man, in fact, a language known to someone in the group. Why an interpretation? Because it's not going to be understood by the majority of the people and an interpretation by one who does not speak that language (just like the original speaker) is going to be twice the evidence to whom it was directed that this is, indeed, of God.
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Avodat
Contending for Biblical truth
If you read the end of Paul's instructions on order in the congregation (1 Corinthians Ch. 10-14) you will find that he is at odds with some of what you say here. Read the whole of 1 Corinthians 14 which is about tongues, prophecy and order in worship.
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yedida
Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
I'm not a non-paulinist but he's not 'all that and a bag of chips' either for me. I don't think I'll ever agree that all that gibberish and KJV straight out of the bible "interpretations" are of God. There is no "proof" of God in that, and "tongues" are to be a sign for the unbeliever, not for the believer.
As I said before, the unknown "heavenly language" may be for the believer in private prayer/worship is another topic that I have no problem with - but this is not what is to be for a "sign" for the unbeliever, but an edification for the worshipper in his prayer closet.
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Avodat
Contending for Biblical truth
I never use the book (or even possess it) or speak archaic language - modern day language is fine for me - but its existence doesn't nullify for me the truth of scripture in its original language, where Paul is clear in what he says - that he spoke in tongues and, in a congregational setting, in good order, it was clearly of G_d in his view and, therefore permitted. That is a far cry from private use in your own home, or whatever is meant by the rather archaic word 'closet', which is a term straight from the KJV and simply means 'room'!
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