Gifts of the Spirit

[Gxg (G²)]

I dont consider myself strictly 'messianic' because of what I believe concerning the gifts of the Spirit and the move of God. Aside from tongues, I do view many things similar with charismatics only I'm more 'skeptical' concerning the 'moves' we see on television and via mainsteam evangelists. I believe there is fake partly because people turn to greed and partially because people want the signs so much they 'force' a move of God and this is when things get out of hand. But I still believe in signs and wonders and healing for the people of God, not just for the sake of the unsaved. God does take care of His children and I believe He does this via the gifts of the Spirit (teaching, encouragement, hospitality, healing, deliverance, prophecy, etc). What kind of testimony to the unsaved is a broken and hurting 'Church' (for lack of better word)?

Curious if you ever came across/considered the thread where more on the Gifts was discussed, entitled Messianic Take on "You Shall Recieve Power" Acts 1:8. (concerning the differing variations of Messianic congregations/levels of acceptance of what's seen in the Charismatic movement).....as well as is casting lots okay? (concerning the ways that others believe the Holy Spirit can speak through other means apart from the Gifts) and I was told about Judaism (as it concerns some really good dialouges about what tongues mean )

 

[JRSut1000]

No, I've not seen that, thanks for the link.

 

[JRSut1000]

I know that from experience, I know the supernatural is something that we all are meant to experience. It's not that it has to be a touchy feel-good thing, sometimes it doesnt feel good. God has used my husband and I when it comes to the prophetic. I often have prophetic dreams, many of which have to do with the condition of churches and even had a dream concerning messianic congregations in a geographical location which turned out to be pretty accurate. I usually have the dream and my husband usually has the interpretation because oftentimes my dream is confirming to him answers or questions he's recently had. And it's interesting because the dream is in such a way it couldnt come of my own imagination in trying to figure out my husband's confirmations and revelations (understanding). And I dont see these dreams as a reward for being a super person, I'm humbled by the 'gift' of dreams because often I dont feel I deserve it. I'm just going about my normal life and I have these dreams. Sometimes it's for other individuals and it's been accurate. I know dreams aren't mentioned as a specific gift of the Spirit in the list, but it is mentioned in Joel 2 and there were individuals throughout the Bible who experienced dreams. God is pouring out His Spirit, heart, and revelation to many people. And yes, even to the unsaved so they come to Him. Like I said, God is a good God and the reason He has gifts is to edify the body to come up higher and to bring the lost to Himself.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I am pretty sure that God has figured out how to get done what He wants to get done in any order of service.

But, the truth is, I have seen more of God moving, outside of the service. Most of what God does, falls into signs and wonders, which is more for the lost then the saved, so it makes sense to me that more 'miracles' occur in a place which is visible to those who are not yet saved.

Feeling that..

Being in differing kinds of services, that was a theme I seemed to notice alot. It seemed as if the gifts really came alive when the mission was in view: reaching out to the Lost and telling them about the glory of Christ, His story and their need for a savior. In street ministry or outreach, you'll often see alot of things you'd not see in a fellowship when it's mainly believers...and many times, when believers have powerful times with the Spirit, it is due to the need to be empowered to go back out into the world for more ministry. Anytime a fellowship becomes insular for its own sake and is isolated, with the community not really feeling their prescence, something is wrong.

But I've also seen it where the Lord has moved in service and unbelievers were impacted due to being there. As it concerns unbelievers being the prescence of believers, part of me is reminded of what Paul noted in 1 Corinthians 14:21 and others when it comes to unbelievers being in the prescence of the saved--hearing prophecy and the secrets of their heart revealed and coming to know how real the Lord is.....just like the woman at the well when Christ operated in Words of Wisdom and prophetic words when ministering to her. For more, there was an excellent book on the issue that sought to deal with that...entitled Worship Evangelism: Inviting Unbelievers Into the Presence of God.

For others:

• WoRship Evangelism
• EVANGELISTIC WORSHIP
• Morgenthaler on Worship Evangelism « Catching Meddlers
• Rethinking Worship Evangelism? « Missional Church Network
• TGC Asks: Do Non-Believers Play a Public Role in Your Church ...

 

[Lulav]

It's shameful that you all are going on about how others don't open themselves to G-d and how they don't see the need for spiritual communication and how we all should open ourselves up to it when you have an opportunity right here to help someone who is hurting greatly, yet you just don't see it. Instead you carry on about some silly word and cause more pain.

How about getting the log out before you give advise. This is where G-d steps in when people care about people. It's not about having faith to let G-d work in you and heal you, but about caring about your neighbor and opening your eyes up to help them.

These 'spiritual gifts' to me are just selfish. 'gifts', which ones' do I have? me, me, me........................

What about the 'ability' everyone has to see another in pain and be able to help? To give them a shoulder to cry on, to talk, or to let them talk?

That is what Yeshua preached, not 'look for the gifts for yourself'.

Love G-d
Love your neighbor as yourself

And his brother spoke on this

Faith without works is dead.

Your works, not G-ds, your effort, your time, your expense.

Sure G-d can do anything, but maybe he wants us to put out too.

 

[JRSut1000]

The gifts are FOR the edification of the body, I think I've said this. The gifts arent a matter of merit, but where there is unbelief yes God does withdraw Himself. I have embraced that God desires more for His people than what many have accepted and whoever seeks Him will indeed find Him. Seek the Kingdom and the rest will be added. To cut off the gifts of the Spirit is detrimental becaues it limits us in our knowing Him.

How can we love people in greater measure? How did Y'shua love? He healed, He delivered, He set free the captives. The Spirit gave good gifts to men, the gifts of prophecy, of edification and words of knowledge, of healing and deliverance, of dreams and visions, of revelation and teaching.

Y'shua did signs and wonders both in the synagogue (congregation) and in the streets. Are we not called to be His hands and feet in the earth? To proclaim the Besorah accompanied with signs and wonders?

And Rav Shaul did say to eagerly seek the gifts, especially prophecy (why? because it was to edify and build up and exhort the congregations).

 

[JRSut1000]

If I can be honest to those who will listen, this is why it is hard for my husband and I to fit in anywhere. Either people throw out the Law in its fullness or they throw out the Spirit in its fullness.

 

[Avodat]

It's shameful that you all are going on about how others don't open themselves to G-d and how they don't see the need for spiritual communication and how we all should open ourselves up to it when you have an opportunity right here to help someone who is hurting greatly, yet you just don't see it. Instead you carry on about some silly word and cause more pain.

How about getting the log out before you give advise. This is where G-d steps in when people care about people. It's not about having faith to let G-d work in you and heal you, but about caring about your neighbor and opening your eyes up to help them.

These 'spiritual gifts' to me are just selfish. 'gifts', which ones' do I have? me, me, me........................

What about the 'ability' everyone has to see another in pain and be able to help? To give them a shoulder to cry on, to talk, or to let them talk?

That is what Yeshua preached, not 'look for the gifts for yourself'.

Love G-d
Love your neighbor as yourself

And his brother spoke on this

Faith without works is dead.

Your works, not G-ds, your effort, your time, your expense.

Sure G-d can do anything, but maybe he wants us to put out too.

Sorry, but whilst that might be true in your experience and with the very peculiar form of 'Christianity' that seems to pervade the USA, in most cases for those who simply work at the coal face, it is not about which gifts have I got - I really do not think anyone sees it that way and I wouldn't claim any special gifts - I have the ones G_d gives me as the occasion arises. It is a major fault on these fora - that people in the US think that the world is the same as you guys live out your faith, with televangelists, mega ministries with flash cars and fantastic homes. We who live in other countries simply make ourselves open to G_d and he equips us with whatever gift he feels may be needed at any particular point.

I never, ever, just pray for healing. I always ask G_d what he wants for the person who has asked for prayer. It may well be that the person just needs another to talk to, or help with this or that, or it may be that G_d wants to sort out something from long, long ago in their life or may be he does want to heal an illness or some other major problem - it's his prerogative, he calls the shots, not your average minister working in some dusty church in a small town no one has ever heard of! Let's get some reality into this debate!

1 Corinthians chapters 10-14 might help with scriptural support for using gifts and good order in congregations (or maybe Romans 12).

 

[JRSut1000]

Easy G: I have seen that documentary 'Finger of God' and it is so incredible and awe-some! I could watch it over and over again because I just see the wonderful goodness of God to all peoples in how He surprises and loves on them in such unique ways!

 

[Lulav]

I guess I was wrong

What about the 'ability' everyone has to see another in pain and be able to help? To give them a shoulder to cry on, to talk, or to let them talk?

That is what Yeshua preached

 

[Little Dove]

I guess I was wrong

You're not wrong.

When we see our brother or sister in need, we should lend a helping hand. This is the will of God. That we Love one another. For God is Love.

 

[yedida]

You're not wrong.

When we see our brother or sister in need, we should lend a helping hand. This is the will of God. That we Love one another. For God is Love.

No, she wasn't wrong, not in the least. And anyone taking more than a cursory glance at my profile would have seen what the pain was/is.

 

[JRSut1000]

I just dont see how what I've said goes against that in any way. We can help our brethren practically, but we can also minister to them through the giftings as well. God uses it all.

 

[Avodat]

I just dont see how what I've said goes against that in any way. We can help our brethren practically, but we can also minister to them through the giftings as well. God uses it all.

That's what The Book says!

 

[Little Dove]

No, she wasn't wrong, not in the least. And anyone taking more than a cursory glance at my profile would have seen what the pain was/is.

No, she wasn't wrong, not in the least. And anyone taking more than a cursory glance at my profile would have seen what the pain was/is.
Because of the bold writing in your post, I feel like you're upset, with what I said. Please forgive me if this is the case. I'm sorry.

 

[Avodat]

No, she wasn't wrong, not in the least. And anyone taking more than a cursory glance at my profile would have seen what the pain was/is.
Because of the bold writing in your post, I feel like you're upset, with what I said. Please forgive me if this is the case. I'm sorry.

Yedida always writes in larger print.

 

[Little Dove]

Yedida always writes in larger print.

Well that's a relief. Thank you very much.

 

[Lulav]

No, she wasn't wrong, not in the least. And anyone taking more than a cursory glance at my profile would have seen what the pain was/is.
Because of the bold writing in your post, I feel like you're upset, with what I said. Please forgive me if this is the case. I'm sorry.

Don't worry, she was just agreeing with you.

 

[Little Dove]

Thank you all for letting me know that.

 

[yedida]

Little Dove,
We are good. You simply said that Lulav was not wrong, I was agreeing and said why I agreed that she was not wrong.