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Gift of tongue

Discussion in 'Sign Gifts' started by SANTOSO, Sep 5, 2021.

  1. SANTOSO

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

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    We pursue love and desire spiritual gifts. And especially we who have received the gift of tongue.

    For we who speak in tongues do not speak to men but to God, for no one understands us; however, in the spirit we speak mysteries.

    We who speak in tongues edify ourselves.

    Though not all spoke with tongues, though those who prophesies is greater than we who speak with tongues, but when there are those interpret tongues interpret, that church receive edification.

    Though those who speak tongues— don’t speak either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching.

    Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, they make a distinction in the sounds, it will be known
    what is piped or played.
    ‭‭For the trumpet don’t make an uncertain sound, but will prepare those for battle.

    There are, it may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and none of them is without significance.

    So we who speak in tongues, make a sound, we make a distinction in the sounds, that it will be known what is piped or played, make an uncertain sound, but will prepare those for battle,
    there are, it may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and all of them are with significance.

    We pray in a tongue, our spirit pray.

    Let us who speak tongues, pray that we may interpret.

    We will pray with the spirit, we will sing with the spirit, we bless with the spirit— we pray, sing and bless in tongues.

    We thank our God we speak with tongues because we are allowed to speak to God, though no one understands us, that in the spirit we speak mysteries, that God only understand.

    We thank our God we speak with tongues because through His gift of tongue, the Lord edifies us.

    We thank our God we speak with tongues because Holy Spirit also gives gift of interpretation of tongue, to whom He wills, that the church may receive edification.

    We thank our God we speak with tongues because though those who speak tongues— don’t speak either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching.

    We who speaks in tongues, for Holy Spirit gave us utterance to speak languages of significance.

    We thank our God we speak with tongues because that when we pray, sing and bless in tongue, that our spirits are given the strength to pray, sing and bless.

    Though in the church we may not
    able to teach others with ten thousand words in a tongue, there are those whom the Lord gave words with understanding that those who hear may be mature in understanding, not in malice.

    “In the law it is written: “With men of other tongues and other lips I will speak to this people; And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,” says the Lord.”
    ‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭14:21‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

    We heard that tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers, but to those who believe, they will hear the Lord.

    Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, let there be no uninformed or unbelievers so that when
    all speak with tongues, there will be no one who say that we are out of our minds.

    So whenever we come together, let each of us has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Therefore, we let all things be done for edification.

    So we who speak in a tongue, we let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. But if there is no interpreter, let us keep silent in church, and let us speak to ourselves and to God.

    For we heard:
    For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

    Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church. Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached?

    If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.
    ‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭14: 33-37 NKJV‬‬

    Therefore we acknowledge that the things which apostle Paul wrote to us are the commandments of the Lord.

    We will be mindful of the commandments of the Lord.
    And we do not forbid anyone to speak with tongues but we let all things be done decently and in order.

    To God be all glory and praise.
    Amen
     
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  2. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    The apostles who spoke in tongues spoke in languages of nations.
    Acts 2:8
    “And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?”
     
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  3. JulieB67

    JulieB67 Well-Known Member

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    Tongues means languages.

    Paul could speak different languages but always said he would rather speak 5 words that someone would understand than speak an unknown "tongue" (language) that no one could understand. Because only himself and God would understand but how is that edifying the church? He also encouraged interpreters if someone was speaking in an unknown language/tongue.
     
  4. sandman

    sandman Senior Member

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    While I disagree with the use of the word “Gifts” which were added by translators in 12:1, 13:2, 14:1 &12 …speaking in tongues along with the other 8, are a manifestation (an operation) of the gift, of holy spirit given to every born again believer..

    I Cor 12:7 But the manifestation (phanerosis) of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

    It seems as though you are indicating that tongues was a known language of Paul’s…a dialect that he used …...which is not what tongues is about.

    It could be a language known somewhere throughout the world …or that of angels. But of the hundreds I have guided into tongues, I have not known anyone speak in tongues where they knew the language….although there have been a few times where the language was known (and sometimes understood) by another person who was present.

    When you go through chapter 14 …Paul was reproving the church of Corinth for their misuse of the worship manifestations (tongues, interpretation, and prophecy) and instructing them on the correct use in meetings. One of which, as you correctly stated, was…. if you are speaking in tongues, you (the person speaking) should interpret….to edify the church…. And yes …to keep silent if you are not going to interpret.

    I Cor 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

    14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
     
  5. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Thanks for the insight, but please take it to another forum, that isn't allowed here.
     
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  6. JulieB67

    JulieB67 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the cloven tongue was given by the Holy Spirit and the miracle was that everyone could hear everyone else in their known language/dialect. I know that.


    But for Paul I am stating he could speak more than one language.
     
  7. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    What's the point of calling tongues a spiritual gift if Paul and others could just speak natural learned languages? A gift is something that the Holy Spirit gives without any effort on the part of the person receiving it. That would mean that if Paul spoke different languages because he made the effort to learn them, those languages would not be a spiritual gift but a product of his own efforts. It sounds like you are stretching the Scripture to suit what you think it should be instead of what it actually is.
     
  8. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    On that occasion, yes, but that was a special one-off event. And it is not proved that the Apostles actually spoke the languages. The Scripture says that the people from the different nations "heard" them speaking in the languages. It was a miracle that the Apostles spoke in unknown tongues and that the language changed in the ears of each listener according to his native language.
     
  9. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Proves nothing.
     
  10. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    I would disagree Oscarr,...

    Let's take the position that 1Cor14:2 is just as applicable then, when The Holy Spirit was first given, ie The Church was first started, as it is currently now,...

    1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth; but by the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

    How would all those different people be hearing about the mighty works of GOD in their own languages if the gift of tongues can not be understood without interpretation??

    The answer is right here,...

    Act 2:17 And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour forth of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams:
    Act 2:18 Yea and on my servants and on my handmaidens in those days Will I pour forth of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy.


    Peter uses Joel's prophecy describing the future event as prophesying,...... and that answers why they were hearing these Jewish people speaking in all these different human languages, as well as hearing them speaking in an unknown tongue, for which they mocked them for,.....

    1Co 14:5 Now I would have you all speak with tongues, but rather that ye should prophesy: and greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

    These newly minted Jewish Christians were not just speaking in unknown tongues by The Holy Spirit,..... The Holy Spirit was also interpreting those messages in human languages,.... and those human languages just happen to be understandable by all these different folks around that spoke all these different dialects.

    You see Oscarr,... we don't have to say there was a special exception to the rule in scripture for that one particular event, we just have to understand that a "corporate" tongue was uttered by The Holy Spirit during that moment, which then also required a "corporate" interpretation uttered by same Holy Spirit,.... and that particular gift always speaks in human languages to those around, which then made the event "prophesying."
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
  11. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Luke doesn't say that the tongues the Apostles spoke on the Day of Pentecost were interpreted. He reports that the listeners heard them speak of the great works of God in their respective dialects. This is what amazed them. If the Apostles spoke in tongues and others interpreted them as is done in Pentecostal meetings, there would have been no amazement in that. The fact that the unsaved listeners remarked that the speakers of the different dialects were "uneducated Galileans" presumably having just Aramaic, shows that the Apostles actually spoke the different dialects, or the listeners heard them in their dialects. The Apostles obviously, being uneducated, did not speak Greek or Hebrew, which are the languages of educated people. Aramaic was the common language of the people, especially in Galilee.

    It is just too easy to read into Luke's report things that we think should be there, but just aren't. There is no Scriptural evidence that the same miracle happened anywhere else. Those who believe the same happened at Cornelius' household and the 12 Ephesian disciples, are assuming that the tongues languages were understood by the hearers; but Luke does not report that, so we have no basis for assuming it. Just because Peter told the other Apostles in Jerusalem that the Spirit fell upon the Gentiles in Cornelius' household in the same way that "He fell on us", it also doesn't mean that the languages were understood by the hearers. Luke doesn't mention it because although the Spirit fell on the group, there is no mention that it happened in exactly the same way as He did on the Day of Pentecost.

    Paul summed it up in 1 Corinthians 14:2: "He who speaks in an unknown tongues does not speak to men but to God, because no man understands him." So, in the normal event of speaking in tongues, it is not understood by the listeners and it needs an interpreter to share the meaning of it so that the listeners are edified. But the interpreter does not understand the language, and receives the interpretation directly from the Holy Spirit.
     
  12. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    But Peter does.

    By using the prophecy of Joel where GOD announced that The Holy Spirit would be poured out and people would be "prophesying".... then interpretation had to be happening for it to be prophesying.

    This was when The Church was first started by GOD, and as scripture says, these tongues were by "utterance of The Holy Spirit"...well that requires an interpretation by utterance of The Holy Spirit also, and that gift is always in human languages.

    This event was basic corporate operation of the gifts, so the same rules apply then as they do now my friend.
     
  13. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    But Luke doesn't mention that the Apostles speaking in tongues was actually prophesying. The prophesying aspect was Peter's quote of Joel's prophecy but was not a description of what was actually happening right then when the Apostles were speaking in tongues declaring the wonderful works of God. They were actually praising and worshiping God in tongues, and each listener heard the praises in his own regional dialect. It was a direct miracle which amazed the hearers.

    On the Day of Pentecost, the Apostles had no idea that there were nine gifts of the Holy Spirit, and that prophecy and interpretation of tongues were among them. Paul wrote 1 Corinthians many years after, at least 30 years, and so a lot of things over those years were learned about the gifts of the Spirit and how they were manifested.

    If you look at the time frame, the conversion of Paul occurred at least 10 years after the Day of Pentecost, and then he spent 14 years in Arabia, and we don't know how long he was in Tarsus when Barnabas collected him and brought him to Antioch. We also don't know how long Paul was in Antioch before the Holy Spirit separated him and Barnabas for the ministry. Also, we don't know how long after that Paul went and planted the church in Corinth. And of course, Apollos managed the church after him, and it was after Apollos left, that Paul heard about what was happening in Corinth and wrote his first letter to them, including instructions of how to use the gifts of tongues, prophecy and interpretation of tongues in the services. The popular view among scholars was that 1 Corinthians was written around 54AD.

    So, the only substantive evidence that we have is what Luke and Paul actually wrote. Anything else over and above that is supposition; in other words, it is the opinion of the scholars what Luke and Paul might have meant and filling in what Luke and Paul did not say, in between what they actually said.

    We actually don't know how the gifts of the Spirit should be manifested, because they did not come with an operating manual. We can only give educated guesses based on how the original turn-of-the-20th-Century Pentecostals experienced. Over the years since then, several Pentecostal theologies have appeared giving opinions on which manifestations were closest to Scripture, and those which are proved by Scripture to be spurious.
     
  14. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    I'm sorry my friend, but that is not a function of the gift of interpretation.

    The gift of interpretation is by utterance of The Holy Spirit in the assembly, it's not a sudden miracle of understanding.

    It's also not a function of the gift of tongues, since tongues is not understandable without the gift of interpretation.

    We can't make things up to try and explain the gifts and their functions, we have to abide by scripture and what The Holy Spirit has said. Peter declared the event as "prophesying"..... well then our understanding of that event has to align with scripture rules related to said prophesying.
     
  15. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran Supporter

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    With the groups that received tongues in Scripture, it states "all" that were there received
    (Acts 4:31; 10:44-46; 19:2-6) with an exception on the day of Pentecost - not in the Upper,Room -where there were mockers of tongues (Acts 2:12-13).
     
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