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Giants?...Sons of God?

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by TheBear, Jan 19, 2002.

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  1. TheBear

    TheBear Free Agent

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    Gen 6:4
    "4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown."

    OK folks. what the heck is going on here? Sons of God/Giants mating with women?

    John
     
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  2. TheBear

    TheBear Free Agent

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    Anybody?
     
  3. man in the box

    man in the box New Member

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    Okay John I'll bite but I believe this is purely speculation on my part. I believe they were angels or some sort. Somehow they figured out how to mate with women. I believe that is why the four angels are chained in the River Euphrates for this. Again I think this is pure speculation on my part and I am not even sure how a spiritual being mates with a physical being.
    What are your thoughts?
     
  4. Apologist

    Apologist 2 Tim. 2:24-26

    +10
    Christian
    There are several interpretations of this but nobody is sure.
    These three are the most used:

    1) Fallen angels (demons) mated with women to produce super-human offspring.

    2) Fallen angels (demons) indwelt human men who had children with women and produced "mighty men."

    3) The godly line of Seth had children with the ungodly line of Cain.

    I feel that the 2nd interpretation fits best because I don't see how fallen angels could produce real bodies and create children. This brings up many questions also such as: If these offspring were half human and half angelic then do we have a new catagory of beings? How would salvation apply to them since angels do not have a salvation? What is to stop them from doing it again?
    This is a difficult thing to translate and we won't know until the day we are called home to be with Christ.

    God Bless
     
  5. TheBear

    TheBear Free Agent

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    man in the box,

    This is not a bait question. I'm really curious about the meaning of this scripture.

    John
     
  6. bgoh

    bgoh Groovy Moderator

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    Here's what I found from the Matthew Henry Comentary about Gen 6: 4-5. Hope this will help!

    We have here a further account of the corruption of the old world. When the sons of God had matched with the daughters of men, though it was very displeasing to God, yet he did not immediately cut them off, but waited to see what would be the issue of these marriages, and which side the children would take after; and it proved (as usually it does), that they took after the worst side. Here is,

    I. The temptation they were under to oppress and do violence. They were giants, and they were men of renown; they became too hard for all about them, and carried all before them, 1. With their great bulk, as the sons of Anak, Num. 13:33. 2. With their great name, as the king of Assyria, Isa. 37:11. These made them the terror of the mighty in the land of the living; and, thus armed, they daringly insulted the rights of all their neighbours and trampled upon all that is just and sacred. Note, Those that have so much power over others as to be able to oppress them have seldom so much power over themselves as not to oppress; great might is a very great snare to many. This degenerate race slighted the honour their ancestors had obtained by virtue and religion, and made themselves a great name by that which was the perpetual ruin of their good name.

    II. The charge exhibited and proved against them, v. 5. The evidence produced was incontestable. God saw it, and that was instead of a thousand witnesses. God sees all the wickedness that is among the children of men; it cannot be concealed from him now, and, if it be not repented of, it shall not be concealed by him shortly. Now what did God take notice of? 1. He observed that the streams of sin that flowed along in men’s lives, and the breadth and depth of those streams: He saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth. Observe the connection of this with what goes before: the oppressors were mighty men and men of renown; and, then, God saw that the wickedness of man was great. Note, The wickedness of a people is great indeed when the most notorious sinners are men of renown among them. Things are bad when bad men are not only honoured notwithstanding their wickedness, but honoured for their wickedness, and the vilest men exalted. Wickedness is then great when great men are wicked. Their wickedness was great, that is, abundance of sin was committed in all places, by all sorts of people; and such sin as was in its own nature most gross, and heinous, and provoking; it was committed daringly, and with a defiance of heaven, nor was any care taken by those that had power in their hands to restrain and punish it. This God saw. Note, All the sins of sinners are known to God the Judge. Those that are most conversant in the world, though they see much wickedness in it, yet they see but little of that which is; but God sees all, and judges aright concerning it, how great it is, nor can he be deceived in his judgment. 2. He observed the fountain of sin that was in men’s hearts. Any one might see that the wickedness of man was great, for they declared their sin as Sodom; but God’s eye went further: He saw that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually—a sad sight, and very offensive to God’s holy eye! This was the bitter root, the corrupt spring: all the violence and oppression, all the luxury and wantonness, that were in the world, proceeded from the corruption of nature; lust conceived them, Jam. 1:15. See Mt. 15:19. (1.) The heart was naught; it was deceitful and desperately wicked. The principles were corrupt, and the habits and dispositions evil. (2.) The thoughts of the heart were so. Thought is sometimes taken for the settled judgment or opinion, and this was bribed, and biased, and misled; sometimes it signifies the workings of the fancy, and these were always either vain or vile, either weaving the spider’s web or hatching the cockatrice’s egg. (3.) The imagination of the thoughts of the heart was so, that is, their designs and devices were wicked. They did not do evil through mere carelessness, as those that walk at all adventures, not heeding what they do; but they did evil deliberately and designedly, contriving how to do mischief. It was bad indeed; for it was only evil, continually evil, and every imagination was so. There was no good to be found among them, no, not at any time: the stream of sin was full, and strong, and constant; and God saw it; see Ps. 14:1-3.
     
  7. Yauming

    Yauming Member

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    Yeah, but the question was -"who were the sons of God". Angels, humans, ET?

     
  8. psalms 22.3

    psalms 22.3 Member

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    so.
    if it is number 2.
    then why dont demon possessed people today produce giants?

    proofs the "sons of god are angles"

    1. that term is only used 5 times in the old test. and all are used of angles.
    gen 6.1-4, job 1.6, 2.1, 38.7
    daniel calls an angle "the son of god" dan 3.25, 28
    it is undisputable that the passages from job refer to angles.
    is it not possible then the "sons of god" gen 6, could be angles?

    2. some translations (the sept, moffat, and others) read "ANGLES OF GOD" which is the only idea that will harmonise with the passage itself, as well as many other passages.

    3. josephus says
    "many angles of god acompanied women and begat sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good, on account of the confidence they had of their own strength...these men did what resembled the acts of those whom the grecians called giants"
    (antiquities book 1.ch.3)

    4. the ante-Nicene Fathers also refer to angles as falling "into impure love for virgins, and were subjugated by the flesh. of these lovers of virgins, therefore were begotten those who are called giants"
    justyn martyr(AD 110-165) says "but the angles trangressed...were captivated by the love of women, and begat children"
    methodius(AD 260-312) says "the devil was insolent...and also are those (angles) who were enamoured by fleshly charms, and had ilicit intercourse with the daughters of men"

    5. both testaments of the bible teach that some angles commited sex sins and living contrary to nature. gen 6.1-4 gives the history of such sin before the flood and their sin was cast down to hell to be reserved untill judgement. this passage does noty reveal that the sin was fornication but jude 6-7 does, saying
    "the angles which KEPT NOT their first FIRST ESTATE, but LEFT their OWN HABITATION, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. EVEN AS sodom and gommorrah and the cities about them IN LIKE MANNER (AS DID THE ANGLES), giving themselves over to FORNICATION, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire"
    if Sodom, gommorrah and other cities lived contrary to nature and commited fornication, as the angles did, then it is clear that the sin of angles was that of fornication. according to gen 6. this sex was commited with "the daughters of men"
    see 2 peter 2.4 jude 6-7

    6. the one scripture used to teach angles are sexless (matt 22.30) does not say that they are.
    it states that "in the ressurection they neither marry nor are given in marraige, but are as the angles of god in heavon"
    the purpose of this verse is to show that men and women who have part in the ressurection do not marry nor do they need to keep their kind in existence. in the ressurected state they live forever, but not as sexless beings. the bible states that everyone will continue bodily as he was born,, in all eternity. paul said that everyone will have HIS OWN BODY in the ressurection 1st cor. 15.35-38. if one is male, he will continue as such with all his bodily parts. if one is female in this life, she will be ressurected as such even though her body is changed from mortallity to immortallity. 1st cor 15.35-54
    there is nothing in the ressurection to uncreate men and women. christ remained a male after his ressurection, and so will all other males.
    throughout scripture angles are spoken of as men, no femaleangels are on record. it is logical to say then that the female was created specifically for the human race in order that it could be kept in existence. and that all angels were created males inasmuch as their kind is kept in existence without the reproductive process. angels were created innumerable to start with hebrews 12.22. whereas the human multitudes began with one pair. adam and eve were commanded to reproduce and make the multitudes. it is clear that angels can do everything men do and surpass them even.
    the fact that angels could have kept not THEIR FIRST ESTATE and leave their own HABITATION to commit sin makes it clear that they could have commited a sex sin.

    the word "habitation"is "oiketerion" it is only used twice in scripture: of the bodies of men being CHANGED to spiritual bodies, and the angles having a bodily change, or a lowering of themselves in someway. jude 6-7
    this in the new testament helps explain the history of the O.T. and how angles lived contrary to their nature and produced giants, when the "sons of god"(angles) came in unto (had relationships with) the daughters of men.

    7. there are 2 classes of fallen angles-those loose with satan who will be cast down to earth in the future tribulation rev12.7-12
    and now those who are bound in hell for commiting what the bible calls fornication 2. pet 2.4, jude 6-7
    if they had not committed this sin they would still be free to help satan in the future.their present confinment proves they commited a sin besides that of the original fall with satan. that it is sex is clear jude 6-7. this identifies them as the "sons of god" in gen.6

    8. in 1st peter 3.19-20 it states that "christ went and preached unto the spirits in prison which sometime were disobedient when once the long suffering of god waited in the days of noah, while the ark was preparing" who are these spirit is prison if not the angles who once lived contrary to their nature- in sin with the daughters of men. we read "WHO MAKETH HIS ANGLES SPIRITS" in psalms 104.4, hebrews 1.13-14
    if angles are spirits then we can conclude that the imprisoned ones christ preached to, where angles, the "sons of god". especially sense they were "disobedient....in the days of noah while the ark was preparing."

    10 proofs that the 'SPIRITS' where angels.
    1.they sinned in the days of noah.
    2. if these were human souls it would not specify only those in the days of noah.
    3. human beings are never called spirits. but the
    spirits OF men. hebrews 12,.23
    spirits OF all flesh. num 16.22
    spirits OF the prophets. 1st cor 14.23
    men have spirits, but they are not spirits.
    when the word SPIRITS is used without such qualifications it is speaking of spirit beings. psalm 104.4 heb. 1.7,14
    4. there is a specail prison for angles that sinned before the flood.
    2.pet 2.4, jude 6-7.
    5.the greek word for "preached" is kerusso as to proclaim, a public crier, to announce.
    it is not the greek EVANGELISO meaning glad tidings of salvation.
    it would have been if salvation had been preached to human beings.
    6.the gospel is never preached to human beings after they die.
    and there would be no specail message for noahs people or god would have been a respecter of persons. humans are appointed to die, and after this the judgement. hebrews 9.27 not more preaching intented for their salvation
    7.there is no specail prison for humans who die.
    rev. 20.11-15
    8. christ made no announcment to human souls in hell that we know about. he did liberate rigtheouse souls taking them to heavon with him. he left the angles in hell till judgement.
    9. christ himself went to preach to these spirits.
    not noah or enoch or anyone else. this could only have been done while he went to hell. psalms 16.10, acts 2.27
    10. whoever these spirits are, they were in prison when christ preached to them.
    these facts indicate they were angles, not men.

    **dakes annotated referance bible**
     
  9. Blackwing

    Blackwing Music Man With Black Wings(duh...)<img src="http:/

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    It reminds me of goliath.

    Will look it up and see.
     
  10. man in the box

    man in the box New Member

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    Just an expression of Speech on the I'll bite. I didn't think you were trying to trick me or anything.

    Scott
     
  11. Julian

    Julian New Member

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    It would depend on who you think 'sons of God, are!
    Love in Jesus/Yeshua, Julian.
     
  12. Debbie

    Debbie Active Member

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    Yes Goliath was one, and there is another who was more famous back then, a king. I forget his name but his tub is at the Smithsonian. He is mentioned in the Bible as being famous, hence "men of renown". I believe it was referring to demon angels who slept with women. I have heard it explained that satan was trying to demonize the seed of man to ensure the coming Messiah would be part demonic, thus part God, part man's seed which was also part demon. I wouldn't put it past satan, he's always plotting. Thank God it didn't work. These giants & their lands were destroyed.
     
  13. BWSmith

    BWSmith Biblical Scholar

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    It's a textual insertion from what used to be part of the "poetic" Adam and Eve source.

    - Son of God = Adam
    - daughter of man = Eve
    - gazing on woman = gazing on fruit (same Hebrew word)
    - "My spirit will not contend with man forever" used to follow "will he take from the tree, and eat, and live forever?"
    - 120-year curse follows "In the day that you eat of it, you will die".

    It was pluralized and placed in its current context to explain the Nephilim that appear in Numbers:

    "There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight." Num 13:33

    Later editors realized that the placement of this account was in error, since the Nephilim should have died in the flood, hence the addition:

    The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward...
     
  14. Debbie

    Debbie Active Member

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    Don't believe everything you hear.
     
  15. BWSmith

    BWSmith Biblical Scholar

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    I agree. Judge for yourself.
     
  16. Debbie

    Debbie Active Member

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    OK, if the Smithsonian isn't enough, look at this website which tells of human bones in a museum of persons 12-15 feet tall. This is also one of 2671 sites about photographs of the remains of Noah's ark. bibleplus.org/discoveries/noahsark.htm
     
  17. BWSmith

    BWSmith Biblical Scholar

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    Debbie, don't believe everything you read on the internet. Any site that claims to have verified the existence of the Biblical Nephilim or the Ark is a kook site.

    In Him,
     
  18. Debbie

    Debbie Active Member

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    I'm older than you. It was big news when I was a small child. The evidence of giant human bones 12-15 feet tall are in museums for you to see. Why is the wood of the ark & the measurment of the shell exactly as in the Bible? The archaeology is there. It's your choice to deny it. I give up.
     
  19. BWSmith

    BWSmith Biblical Scholar

    367
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    > I'm older than you. It was big news when I was a small child.

    How old am I?

    > The evidence of giant human bones 12-15 feet tall are in museums for you to see.

    Which museums? It's not in the Smithsonian. You mean the kind that sets up shop at the State Fair?

    > Why is the wood of the ark & the measurment of the shell exactly as in the Bible? The archaeology is there. It's your choice to deny it.

    That same site you offered also has a "raw food treatment for cancer". Check it out here:

    Raw Food Treatment for Cancer

    It criticizes jewelry and makeup:

    Jewelry, Makeup & Other Adornments

    Calls Nutrasweet "poison":

    ASPARTAME - DIET DRINK POISON

    It claims that they have rediscovered Noah's Ark, the Red Sea crossing, Mt. Sinai, Sodom & Gomorrah, the Ark of the Covenant, and Jesus's real tomb.

    I'm sorry, but every "Kook Alert" I have available to me is going off right now with regard to this website.
     
  20. BWSmith

    BWSmith Biblical Scholar

    367
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    Sorry if we hijacked your thread, Bear...
    :D
     
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