German Catholic Church ‘Abused Thousands of Children’

[Occams Barber]

German Catholic Church ‘Abused Thousands of Children’

The latest chapter in the ongoing saga of the Catholic Church and child sexual abuse…

According to a leaked study, commissioned by the German Catholic Church, around 3,677 children were sexually assaulted by around 1,670 Catholic priests between 1946 and 2014. The study was due to be published on 25 September.

Based on the study, only 38% of the alleged perpetrators were prosecuted with most facing only minor disciplinary procedures. About one in six cases involved rape.

Most of the victims were boys, and more than half were aged 13 or younger.

Predatory clerics were often moved to new communities, where no warning was issued about their actions.

The study was compiled by three German universities, using 38,000 documents from 27 German dioceses. Its authors said the true extent of the abuse may be even greater, as some records were "destroyed or manipulated".



This is the latest in a series of major investigations into child sexual abuse and cover-up within the Catholic Church. Thousands of instances of clerical abuse of children have been uncovered in Chile, Ireland, Australia, the Netherlands and now, Germany, while perpetrators have been protected and, sometimes, aided and betted by Church hierarchy. There are documented cases of abuse, or allegations, from Spain, Italy, Malta, Austria, Belgium and Switzerland.

Within the USA, broad scale abuse has been uncovered in Boston and, more recently, Pennsylvania. New York, New Jersey, Missouri, Illinois and New Mexico are now in the process of launching their own investigations. Los Angeles diocese has paid out millions in compensation to victims of abuse while a Wisconsin priest is suspected of abusing some 200 boys at a school for the deaf despite the fact that his activities were reported to Church hierarchy.

Given the current known extent of the abuse, it seems reasonable to assume that there is more to uncover.
OB

Links:
German Catholic Church ‘Abused Thousands of Children’ (BBC)
Catholic Sex Abuse Scandals Around the World (BBC)
States take on Catholic Church (NY Times)

 

[High Fidelity]

To the surprise of no one at this point.

How Catholics still take their children to church is beyond me.

 

[Occams Barber]

To the surprise of no one at this point.

How Catholics still take their children to church is beyond me.

To be fair it also happens in institutions run by other religions. The table below is a breakdown showing the percentage of child sexual abuse and the number of institutions involved by denomination. Its comes directly from the Australian Royal Commission on Institutional Child Sexual Abuse.

While the Catholic Church has an obvious majority it seems that Christianity as a whole has much to answer for.

61.8% Catholic - 964 institutions
14.7% Anglican - 244 institutions
7.3% Salvation Army - 64 Institutions
4.2% Protestant (undefined denominations) – 57 institutions
2.9% Presbyterian & Reformed - 40 institutions
2.4% Uniting Church - 50 institutions
1.9% Other Christian - 42 Institutions
1.7% Baptist - 30 institutions
0.9% Pentecostal - 30 institutions
0.8% Brethren - 12 institutions
0.7% Churches of Christ - 21 institutions
0.6% Judaism - 10 institutions
0.6% Seventh Day Adventist - 21 institutions
0.5% Lutheran - 12 institutions
0.2% LDS - 6 institutions
OB

 

[BNR32FAN]

It’s despicable that they say the Catholic Church abused those children. The church itself is not the one committing the abuse it is the people within the church. I honestly think this is a ploy to make the church look bad. I’m wondering how many total children actually went thru all these places. We’re probably talking about hundreds of thousands of kids which would make up probably a 1%-3% range. I’m also curious how well our public schools and day cares would compare in their statistics. You can’t blame the church for the actions of people who are obviously breaking the rules that the Catholic Church strongly upholds. If a few police officers break the law is the entire government responsible? No because it’s against the laws the government put in place. A few bad people are dragging the church’s name thru the mud. These organizations were created by the church to help people. Not to hurt people. How much more good have they done than bad? There is no organization that is as large as the Catholic Church that doesn’t have a few corrupted people. God be with them and those who were abused.

 

[Chesterton]

According to a leaked study, commissioned by the German Catholic Church, around 3,677 children were sexually assaulted by around 1,670 Catholic priests between 1946 and 2014.

I don't need to be defending the RC church, but I can't help notice a kind of paradox here. If all these assaults were covered up, that means they were never investigated, much less had what we could consider a proper court trial using due process. Yet we should take every accusation as being true? And then say, "Well they couldn't be proven. They were covered up."

 

[Occams Barber]

It’s despicable that they say the Catholic Church abused those children. The church itself is not the one committing the abuse it is the people within the church. I honestly think this is a ploy to make the church look bad. I’m wondering how many total children actually went thru all these places. We’re probably talking about hundreds of thousands of kids which would make up probably a 1%-3% range. I’m also curious how well our public schools and day cares would compare in their statistics. You can’t blame the church for the actions of people who are obviously breaking the rules that the Catholic Church strongly upholds. If a few police officers break the law is the entire government responsible? No because it’s against the laws the government put in place. A few bad people are dragging the church’s name thru the mud. These organizations were created by the church to help people. Not to hurt people. How much more good have they done than bad? There is no organization that is as large as the Catholic Church that doesn’t have a few corrupted people. God be with them and those who were abused.

If a church is not its people then what is it? Bricks and mortar don't rape children.

I sincerely suggest you go back and read the OP. We are not discussing a problem of the occasional bad apple here. This is a widespread and entrenched practice perpetrated by those charged with upholding Christian standards aided and abetted by church leadership.

I'm sure all churches do good but you cannot justify child sexual abuse by trading it off against any good they may have done.
OB

 

[Occams Barber]

I don't need to be defending the RC church, but I can't help notice a kind of paradox here. If all these assaults were covered up, that means they were never investigated, much less had what we could consider a proper court trial using due process. Yet we should take every accusation as being true? And then say, "Well they couldn't be proven. They were covered up."

Since these reports were not intended to send someone to prison then the legal standards of proof do not apply. If they result in someone being legally charged then that person will be subjected to due process. We are looking here at broad scale investigations designed to identify endemic issues not necessarily charging individuals. I'm willing to accept that there could be the odd false accusation but not on this scale.

'Covered up' in this case typically means the abuse was accepted to have happened but the priest was merely moved to another parish. Many of these cases were actually documented by the church and frequently backed up by victim statements.
OB

 

[Chesterton]

Since these reports were not intended to send someone to prison then the legal standards of proof do not apply. If they result in someone being legally charged then that person will be subjected to due process. We are looking here at broad scale investigations designed to identify endemic issues not necessarily charging individuals.

Right, the legal standards don't apply to these universities any more than they apply to an "investigative reporter" on the local news. That's a problem.

I'm willing to accept that there could be the odd false accusation but not on this scale.

I agree with you about the scale. "The Bill Cosby Effect" you might call it. If one woman accuses you of assault, it's one thing. But if 50 women do, it looks really bad. "Quantity has a quality all it's own" as Lenin once said.

'Covered up' in this case typically means the abuse was accepted to have happened but the priest was merely moved to another parish.

Not necessarily. Moving a priest to another parish could be a way of simply making the accusations go away. Sort of like paying "nuisance value" to make a frivolous lawsuit go away.

Many of these cases were actually documented by the church and frequently backed up by victim statements.

That just means the accusations were documented.

 

[Occams Barber]

Right, the legal standards don't apply to these universities any more than they apply to an "investigative reporter" on the local news. That's a problem.

I agree with you about the scale. "The Bill Cosby Effect" you might call it. If one woman accuses you of assault, it's one thing. But if 50 women do, it looks really bad. "Quantity has a quality all it's own" as Lenin once said.

Not necessarily. Moving a priest to another parish could be a way of simply making the accusations go away. Sort of like paying "nuisance value" to make a frivolous lawsuit go away.

That just means the accusations were documented.

I'm not about to get into a pointless tit-for-tat argument with someone who is either playing games or does not understand the nature of these types of investigations.

For what it's worth at least two of the investigations were legally constituted. Australia ran a 5 year Royal Commission (a legal entity) run by a Judge and involving legal council. Pennsylvania was an investigation using your own Grand Jury system. In neither case was a trial standard of legal proof the standard required to accept that abuse occurred. The German case was based on documentation supplied by the Church.
OB

 

[Chesterton]

I'm not about to get into a pointless tit-for-tat argument with someone who is either playing games or does not understand the nature of these types of investigations.

I had no idea this was a pointless tit-for-tat argument. Anyway, I'd rather not get into a discussion with someone who values believing what they want to believe about a topic above actually thinking critically about the topic.

 

[Hank77]

Right, the legal standards don't apply to these universities any more than they apply to an "investigative reporter" on the local news. That's a problem.

I agree with you about the scale. "The Bill Cosby Effect" you might call it. If one woman accuses you of assault, it's one thing. But if 50 women do, it looks really bad. "Quantity has a quality all it's own" as Lenin once said.

Not necessarily. Moving a priest to another parish could be a way of simply making the accusations go away. Sort of like paying "nuisance value" to make a frivolous lawsuit go away.

That just means the accusations were documented.

You may want to watch the movie Spotlight. It's more of a documentary than a movie.
At one point in Boston, the Church was sending the perpetrators to a Catholic counselor for a few months and then putting them in different church. There were almost 100 documented priests just in the Boston diocese.

 

[Chesterton]

You may want to watch the movie Spotlight. It's more of a documentary than a movie.
At one point in Boston, the Church was sending the perpetrators to a Catholic counselor for a few months and then putting them in different church. There were almost 100 documented priests just in the Boston diocese.

I already addressed that type of thing. The RC church is very "deep pockets", and would want to protect itself whether it was guilty or not.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If a church is not its people then what is it? Bricks and mortar don't rape children.

I sincerely suggest you go back and read the OP. We are not discussing a problem of the occasional bad apple here. This is a widespread and entrenched practice perpetrated by those charged with upholding Christian standards aided and abetted by church leadership.

I'm sure all churches do good but you cannot justify child sexual abuse by trading it off against any good they may have done.
OB

My point wasn’t to downplay the bad but to show that the statistics of this resulting from 38,000 documents over a period of 68 years. That’s a lot of documents and how many children were actually cared for during that time in all these Catholic organizations who were not abused? That’s the big question. If we’re talking about 300,000 then we’re looking at a 1% of those who were actually abused. Something that could easily go unnoticed and would be impossible to predict or prevent. Given the size of the organization any organization of that kind of magnitude over that period of time is going to have some corrupted people who are going to break the rules. It’s unavoidable.

 

[Occams Barber]

My point wasn’t to downplay the bad but to show that the statistics of this resulting from 38,000 documents over a period of 68 years. That’s a lot of documents and how many children were actually cared for during that time in all these Catholic organizations who were not abused? That’s the big question. If we’re talking about 300,000 then we’re looking at a 1% of those who were actually abused. Something that could easily go unnoticed and would be impossible to predict or prevent. Given the size of the organization any organization of that kind of magnitude over that period of time is going to have some corrupted people who are going to break the rules. It’s unavoidable.

When does the problem get so small that it can be ignored? 20%? 10%? 1%? How about we look at real numbers. 10,000 kids, 5,000 kids? 3,677 (German) kids?

You have no way of knowing what % of children are being abused but you are convinced, based on an uninformed guesstimate, that it's so small it 'could easily go unnoticed' and 'would be impossible to predict or prevent'. How do you know this and why does the issue become less important as the numbers of children drop?

The pattern across the world suggest that child sexual abuse is endemic and entrenched in the Catholic church. There is clear evidence that the abuse has been condoned and facilitated by Church hierarchy. The known numbers of kids collectively runs in excess of ten thousand.

Are you seriously suggesting that we accept your verdict of 'It's unavoidable' and do nothing?
OB

 

[Par5]

It is not only sexual abuse of children that the RCC leadership has on its conscience, if indeed it has a conscience.
An Irish government commissioned enquiry investigated the discovery of the remains of up to 800 infants buried in a disused sewage tank at a former home for unmarried mothers run by the Bon Secours order of nuns in Tuam, County Galway. The age of the dead children ranged from 35 weeks to 3 years. Death certificates were found for 796 children but only burial records for two of the children.
Young unmarried mothers were brought to the home to give birth but were separated from the child when it was born. The child was raised by the nuns until such time as it might be adopted. The church considered these young unmarried mothers, "sinful."
Most of the children were estimated to have died in the 1950's. The home was closed in 1961.
It was estimated that child mortality rates in homes such as this in Ireland were four times the national average.
The lack of human decency shown to those unfortunate children was truly sickening.

 

[Occams Barber]

It is not only sexual abuse of children that the RCC leadership has on its conscience, if indeed it has a conscience.
An Irish government commissioned enquiry investigated the discovery of the remains of up to 800 infants buried in a disused sewage tank at a former home for unmarried mothers run by the Bon Secours order of nuns in Tuam, County Galway. The age of the dead children ranged from 35 weeks to 3 years. Death certificates were found for 796 children but only burial records for two of the children.
Young unmarried mothers were brought to the home to give birth but were separated from the child when it was born. The child was raised by the nuns until such time as it might be adopted. The church considered these young unmarried mothers, "sinful."
Most of the children were estimated to have died in the 1950's. The home was closed in 1961.
It was estimated that child mortality rates in homes such as this in Ireland were four times the national average.
The lack of human decency shown to those unfortunate children was truly sickening.

Thank you for this Par 5.

I came across the story of the Tuam babies several months ago while looking at the outcomes of the various public enquiries into the torture, neglect and sexual abuse of children, by the Catholic Church, in Ireland.

Of all the horror stories, Tuam hit me the hardest. I'm a grumpy old man but I found it difficult to read about hundreds of infant bodies callously dumped, in a septic tank, without crying.

I'm not a Christian but, if I were, I would pray to God to reserve a special place for the Holy Sisters of Bon Secours.
OB
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...tholic-church-children-buried-at-tuam-ireland

 

[BNR32FAN]

Where did you get the number of 3,677 confirmed cases of abuse? I don’t see it in either article. Are you counting the alleged cases as being confirmed?

Thank you for this Par 5.

I came across the story of the Tuam babies several months ago while looking at the outcomes of the various public enquiries into the torture, neglect and sexual abuse of children, by the Catholic Church, in Ireland.

Of all the horror stories, Tuam hit me the hardest. I'm a grumpy old man but I found it difficult to read about hundreds of infant bodies callously dumped, in a septic tank, without crying.

I'm not a Christian but, if I were, I would pray to God to reserve a special place for the Holy Sisters of Bon Secours.
OB
The Catholic church is ‘shocked’ at the hundreds of children buried at Tuam. Really? | Emer O’Toole

Compare these statistics to that of public schools being an estimated 100 times worse than Catholic schools.

Has Media Ignored Sex Abuse In School?

 

[Par5]

Where did you get the number of 3,677 confirmed cases of abuse? I don’t see it in either article. Are you counting the alleged cases as being confirmed?


Compare these statistics to that of public schools being an estimated 100 times worse than Catholic schools.

Has Media Ignored Sex Abuse In School?

Do you think that by saying that the abuse of children by other organizations is greater than the abuse of children by Catholic clergy that it in some way lessens crimes committed by the clergy? Anyway, we are not discussing abuse of children by secular organizations, we are discussing abuse by a religious organization, namely the RCC.
How bad does it have to get before you stop making comparisons? People could be forgiven for thinking you were making excuses for such despicable behaviour.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Do you think that by saying that the abuse of children by other organizations is greater than the abuse of children by Catholic clergy that it in some way lessens crimes committed by the clergy? Anyway, we are not discussing abuse of children by secular organizations, we are discussing abuse by a religious organization, namely the RCC.
How bad does it have to get before you stop making comparisons? People could be forgiven for thinking you were making excuses for such despicable behaviour.

I haven’t in any way made excuses for child abuse. My point has continuously been that the church nor any other large organization can prevent it from happening 100%. However they have been successful at keeping it to a very low percentage. That was the reason I posted the article about sexual abuse in the schools to show that the Catholic Church is not the leading organization of child sex offenders as everyone is being led to believe and that their percentage of offenders is much lower about than the public schools which nobody seems to be making a big deal about. Nobody wants to look at the big picture because that’s not controversial enough. People want shocking news. They want to point fingers and condemn the entire church based on the actions of an extremely low percentage of people in the church. It is no different than racism or bigotry. It’s no different than labeling all black people as criminals or all Muslims as terrorists. The problem with the OP post is it states that THE CATHOLIC CHURCH abused these children. It is not stating the fact that a small percentage of Catholic priests ALLEGEDLY abused 3,677 children because the majority of cases are allegations not convictions. Just one more thing I’d like to point out is I am well known on this site as not being a Catholic. I’m not standing up for my church I’m standing up for my brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[ranunculus]

Meanwhile in the Netherlands...
Dutch Catholic church accused of widespread sexual abuse cover-up