:::Genuinely Saved People With A Phariseeical Spirit

[NDL]

(Please delete)

 

[John 11 35]

Jesus is patient but since that pastor has resources and ability to preach to large group of people he will be judged at Judgement Seat of Christ in different way than person who did not have such abilities , in short more is given more is required .

Same goes with donating , some people put like 10K at one time and whole church claps but other sit and tithe every month for 10 years making overall more for church but they do not get applause , jesus said these people who seek for pride alredy got thier reward so they won't get reward in heaven (Mark 12:41)

 

[~Anastasia~]

Greetings All!

In my mind are several topics that I have tried to reconcile over the years. These are unanswered questions that I have tried to reconcile, and now that I have found this forum, I am posting questions that I have held in for years.

One such trait that I have observed is a haughty spirit, within a truly saved believer. In such a person are biblical truths; this is a person who is familiar with Scripture. Yet they do not have a full understanding of their depravity; they do not comprehend - deep within their soul - their dependency or need upon Christ. If they did, they would see their Brother or Sister's deficiencies with a measure of grace.

1 Corinthians 8:1-2: "Now concerning things offered to idols: we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know."

There's a dichotomy in the above passage; the element of knowledge is universal, but what people *do* with that knowledge *depends* on the spirit of the possessor.

In other words, if someone has a proud spirit, their possession of knowledge makes them more proud. If someone has a mature spirit, their possession of knowledge seeks to disciple and strengthen the person lacking in knowledge. Here's an example in action:

Luke 18:10-12: "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.'

Notice the spirit of this Pharisee: in the above resuscitation, he shows that he had knowledge; his prayer reflects that he had a limited understanding of what God requires. Yet, he did not take stock of his deficiencies, thus was he proud. And so how was his knowledge manifested? "Thank God I am not depraved like this guy over here"

***
What happens in a church full of people, that possess Biblical knowledge, but lack a depth of character? How do they relate?

Matthew 5:43: ""You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'"

Thus was the teaching of the Pharisees; "love other Pharisee's, but hate your enemy (sinners)"

Again:

Matthew 11:19: "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!'..."

The Pharisees, who were religious and proud, saw Him as a winebibber (someone who consumed alcohol). And how did Pharisee's handle winebibbers?

Proverbs 23:20: "Do not mix with winebibbers, Or with gluttonous eaters of meat;"

My point is that when a believer possesses spiritual pride, that pride is made manifest by looking down upon others, or by separating yourself from their company. In some churches, spiritual pride is epidemic; the church consists of cliques, rendering it's service ineffective.

This I have seen many times; people relating or working with one another, until the believer filled with spiritual pride senses a deficiency in their friend or coworker. Then all goes south.

How do you tackle spiritual pride, if it comes from a Pastor or Elder or someone within church leadership? Moreover, since it's likely that Jesus hated the Pharisees, how does He coexist inside of a genuinely saved believer with spiritual pride? Since the Lord opposes the proud, how does He use a church that has biblical knowledge, yet is spiritually proud? (I am aware that the Lord can use any situation any way He wants, yet the question is worth considering).

How do you know who is genuinely "saved"?


The basic answer though is that true spiritual pride is a deadly spiritual illness. Difficult to be cured because they usually don't think anything is wrong with them, and they won't receive correction. In the end, who knows how God will judge them? Pride reflects more of Satan than of Christ.

Generally speaking, it might be best to distance ourselves from such persons.

 

[r4.h]

Jesus warned us to be wary of the yeast of the Pharisee and the
yeast of Herod. This tells us that both will be with us until He comes back.
There and will be both in the church, and just a little of their yeast can infect us with their spirit. The Pharisee yeast is that of leagalism, while the Herodian yeast is liberalism.
Im not saying they are not saved, but i have to question if these are "genuinely saved" while being spiritually proud were ever truly born again. As you say its like they never saw their depravity and so were never humbled.
Jesus tells us "whoever is forgiven much will love much" those who havnt been slain by a look into their depravity will treat the blood of Jesus as cheap thing, trusting still in their own righteousness.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I also don't think there is such a thing as spiritual pride. People may boast of what the Lord has done as a biblical reason for boasting, in fact the only reason given to boast, but in what the Lord has done. I think your correct that if someone has a proud spirit, their possession of knowledge makes them more proud. If someone has a mature spirit, their possession of knowledge seeks to disciple and strengthen the person lacking in knowledge. I think you have rightly divided the Word in that.

 

[NDL]

(Please delete)

 

[Steve Petersen]

Good thing there is no spiritual pride here on CF.

 

[NDL]

(Please delete)

 

[NDL]

I also don't think there is such a thing as spiritual pride. People may boast of what the Lord has done as a biblical reason for boasting, in fact the only reason given to boast, but in what the Lord has done. I think your correct that if someone has a proud spirit, their possession of knowledge makes them more proud. If someone has a mature spirit, their possession of knowledge seeks to disciple and strengthen the person lacking in knowledge. I think you have rightly divided the Word in that.

Cassia, kindly look at the Scriptural evidences I offered up as examples and proofs. Please tell me if I misused the Scriptures in any way.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Cassia, kindly look at the Scriptural evidences I offered up as examples and proofs. Please tell me if I misused the Scriptures in any way.

Judging from the scriptures given that's not for me to judge is it?

But we can pick and choose who we associate with. Therein I think your wrong. Blooming where your planted means fitting in with those you'll spend eternity with and in that I believe at this point we are given the chose.

 

[Swan7]

likely that Jesus hated the Pharisees, how does He coexist inside of a genuinely saved believer with spiritual pride? Since the Lord opposes the proud, how does He use a church that has biblical knowledge, yet is spiritually proud? (I am aware that the Lord can use any situation any way He wants, yet the question is worth considering).

NDL, I know what you are getting at, but my immediate attention is right here. Jesus did not hate anyone. What He did hate was the sin that abounded and not just in them. Would someone who hates another say such warnings at this? John 8:21, again in John 8:23 and in John 5:39 Jesus even openly explained to them about His own testimony by His Father - which they continued to disbelieve.
Why would Jesus do that? He knows the hearts of all men, so why would He continue to tell them the truth?
I believe it's because of this famous verse: John 3:16-17

On the other hand, I do agree with what you describe about having a spirit of a Pharisee as I used to be among them. This is why I say to everyone "Go to God for everything and test everything." In hopes to strengthen their relationship with Him.

 

[NDL]

Judging from the scriptures given that's not for me to judge is it?

I don't understand .

Am I wrong to draw conclusions from the verses that I quoted? Do the verses that I quoted not point to spiritual pride?

 

[NDL]

(Please delete)

 

[Swan7]

God loved Jacob, but He hated Esau (Romans 9:13).

Let me read and get back to you on this.

 

[klutedavid]

Greetings All!

In my mind are several topics that I have tried to reconcile over the years. These are unanswered questions that I have tried to reconcile, and now that I have found this forum, I am posting questions that I have held in for years.

One such trait that I have observed is a haughty spirit, within a truly saved believer. In such a person are biblical truths; this is a person who is familiar with Scripture. Yet they do not have a full understanding of their depravity; they do not comprehend - deep within their soul - their dependency or need upon Christ. If they did, they would see their Brother or Sister's deficiencies with a measure of grace.

1 Corinthians 8:1-2: "Now concerning things offered to idols: we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know."

There's a dichotomy in the above passage; the element of knowledge is universal, but what people *do* with that knowledge *depends* on the spirit of the possessor.

In other words, if someone has a proud spirit, their possession of knowledge makes them more proud. If someone has a mature spirit, their possession of knowledge seeks to disciple and strengthen the person lacking in knowledge. Here's an example in action:

Luke 18:10-12: "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.'

Notice the spirit of this Pharisee: in the above resuscitation, he shows that he had knowledge; his prayer reflects that he had a limited understanding of what God requires. Yet, he did not take stock of his deficiencies, thus was he proud. And so how was his knowledge manifested? "Thank God I am not depraved like this guy over here"

***
What happens in a church full of people, that possess Biblical knowledge, but lack a depth of character? How do they relate?

Matthew 5:43: ""You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'"

Thus was the teaching of the Pharisees; "love other Pharisee's, but hate your enemy (sinners)"

Again:

Matthew 11:19: "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!'..."

The Pharisees, who were religious and proud, saw Him as a winebibber (someone who consumed alcohol). And how did Pharisee's handle winebibbers?

Proverbs 23:20: "Do not mix with winebibbers, Or with gluttonous eaters of meat;"

My point is that when a believer possesses spiritual pride, that pride is made manifest by looking down upon others, or by separating yourself from their company. In some churches, spiritual pride is epidemic; the church consists of cliques, rendering it's service ineffective.

This I have seen many times; people relating or working with one another, until the believer filled with spiritual pride senses a deficiency in their friend or coworker. Then all goes south.

How do you tackle spiritual pride, if it comes from a Pastor or Elder or someone within church leadership? Moreover, since it's likely that Jesus hated the Pharisees, how does He coexist inside of a genuinely saved believer with spiritual pride? Since the Lord opposes the proud, how does He use a church that has biblical knowledge, yet is spiritually proud? (I am aware that the Lord can use any situation any way He wants, yet the question is worth considering).

I have observed this human trait (self righteousness) even in mature Christians, and in many churches.

A very good question you asked.

How to stay humble, as your thoughts and behavior more closely resemble Christ's over time?

 

[klutedavid]

Greetings All!

In my mind are several topics that I have tried to reconcile over the years. These are unanswered questions that I have tried to reconcile, and now that I have found this forum, I am posting questions that I have held in for years.

One such trait that I have observed is a haughty spirit, within a truly saved believer. In such a person are biblical truths; this is a person who is familiar with Scripture. Yet they do not have a full understanding of their depravity; they do not comprehend - deep within their soul - their dependency or need upon Christ. If they did, they would see their Brother or Sister's deficiencies with a measure of grace.

1 Corinthians 8:1-2: "Now concerning things offered to idols: we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know."

There's a dichotomy in the above passage; the element of knowledge is universal, but what people *do* with that knowledge *depends* on the spirit of the possessor.

In other words, if someone has a proud spirit, their possession of knowledge makes them more proud. If someone has a mature spirit, their possession of knowledge seeks to disciple and strengthen the person lacking in knowledge. Here's an example in action:

Luke 18:10-12: "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.'

Notice the spirit of this Pharisee: in the above resuscitation, he shows that he had knowledge; his prayer reflects that he had a limited understanding of what God requires. Yet, he did not take stock of his deficiencies, thus was he proud. And so how was his knowledge manifested? "Thank God I am not depraved like this guy over here"

***
What happens in a church full of people, that possess Biblical knowledge, but lack a depth of character? How do they relate?

Matthew 5:43: ""You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'"

Thus was the teaching of the Pharisees; "love other Pharisee's, but hate your enemy (sinners)"

Again:

Matthew 11:19: "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!'..."

The Pharisees, who were religious and proud, saw Him as a winebibber (someone who consumed alcohol). And how did Pharisee's handle winebibbers?

Proverbs 23:20: "Do not mix with winebibbers, Or with gluttonous eaters of meat;"

My point is that when a believer possesses spiritual pride, that pride is made manifest by looking down upon others, or by separating yourself from their company. In some churches, spiritual pride is epidemic; the church consists of cliques, rendering it's service ineffective.

This I have seen many times; people relating or working with one another, until the believer filled with spiritual pride senses a deficiency in their friend or coworker. Then all goes south.

How do you tackle spiritual pride, if it comes from a Pastor or Elder or someone within church leadership? Moreover, since it's likely that Jesus hated the Pharisees, how does He coexist inside of a genuinely saved believer with spiritual pride? Since the Lord opposes the proud, how does He use a church that has biblical knowledge, yet is spiritually proud? (I am aware that the Lord can use any situation any way He wants, yet the question is worth considering).

Is this condition more evident in people raised as Christians?

I doubt whether converts that come to Christ later in life, would suffer from spiritual pride. They are usually too busy, wrestling with an array of bad habits, developed over many years of being non Christians.

 

[NDL]

(Please delete)

 

[NDL]

(Please delete)

 

[NDL]

(Please delete)

 

[klutedavid]

I have known believers who came from an ugly background, who were mired in degrees of spiritual pride.

Why is this a surprise?

The Apostle Paul never forgot where he came from; as a result of his past life, he continually referred to himself as the "least of the Apostles."

Because we're a busy people "on the go," I wonder how much quiet time people spend in introspection. Pride is the direct consequence of not using the Lord's standards as their yardstick; proud people measure themselves against other people, thus making themselves look good.

I know what you mean, but I doubt whether they even knew enough about Christianity to possess a Christian pride.

Paul had little self respect after nearly destroying the early church, rather he boasted of his calling in the Lord.

I think we are discussing a Christian pride, not so much a Jewish pride.