Genuine Question

[Grace2022]

So here's a question for you. It's not meant to cause offence and it's something I would appreciate a well thought out response too.

I'm sure you've been faced with this scenario on many occasions when challenged about your faith. Let me just make one thing clear, I'm an atheist. Having said that, I respect anyone's beliefs and if it draws comfort for those that believe then I'm pleased for them.

But here's my question. So my 30 year old friend...a beautiful, intelligent, dignified, mother to a 10 year old girl and everything that's right about a human being, is dying of cancer. She's battled for 7 years but the end is near and she has a maximum of 6 months to live. She has struggled, suffered (along with her daughter and wonderful mother) throughout this dreadful disease. She has been dignified and stoic, she even put herself through university and gained a 1st despite her condition and treament.

Now what possible explanation could your faith provide me with to justify how cruel and unfair this is? When there are peadophiles and murderers who get to carry out their lives in full. Why is she made to suffer a long, drawn out and painful death? What possible explanation can you offer to her daughter to have to witness such a dreadful and traumatic end to her mothers life?? Something she will spend the rest of her life trying to come to terms with?

And please, don't say that 'god works in mysterious ways'. That's a cop out. Or he 'takes the good ones for a reason'. Well if that's the case then why not just take them? Why let her and her family go through the worst pain and unimaginable suffering? It's a fair question and in respect to her, it warrants a justifiable explanation.
I often hear 'pray for her'. Pray for her???? What am I praying for exactly??? To whom am I begging for leniency when it comes to her drawn out and torturous death??? 'Please god would you be so kind as to not let this beautiful human being lose her life and her body be ravaged by a disease that will slowly and painfully kill her for all her loved ones to witness and that every night she goes to bed with the only hope that it takes her quickly. I'd be ever so grateful to you'. Seriously??

Hi,
it's a hard questio. I have not got any answers except my own experience. God gives us life, we all die. We cannot know how or when. We Christians pray to Lord Jesus to give us strength and peace in times of adversity and it comes.I faced the process of my husband's death from throat cancer. Up until then I was atheist. Once I surrendered to God, I was and still anm able to cope and in fact thrive. God helps us through but only if we ask in humble prayer.
Our bodies and minds are mortal, prone to every ill. None is spared from illness and death. By seeking God's help get all we need to be able to carry on. By belonging to Jesus we know we have eternal life to look forward to. Those who are atheists have no foundation, no hope and only their own strength. Nobody on earth can help in this kind of terrible sad situation that your family faces. Only God.
I've probably put all that quite badly but it's all I've got. When I faced my husband's death, I prayed humbly for the first time. I then felt the Holy Spirit and it was powerful. From that moment I have always had all the strength I could ever need. Before I was lost and helpless, life happened and I was floundering. With God have meaning, joy and a sense of control.
let's face it, as an atheist what have you got? Just anger and helplessness in the face of adversity. I have learned we as humans do not have what it takes. We need God for everything.
I no longer fear death. Not mine or anyone else's.
I wish your family peace and strength.
One final comment. Why are you on here? It surely means you know deep down that there is a good chance you may find what you seek here, among us Christians. That we have something special. That's right. We have Jesus and he is the answer.

 

[Sidl02]

I'm still confused as to why an atheist doesn't understand why God (who he doesn't believe exists) should allow or not allow something to happen.

How can God be responsible for something if he doesn't exist?

It baffles me why some of you are so defensive. Some of you have responded rather unchristian like if you don't mind me saying. So that is your response to the questions I raised?? Why should I respond to an atheist? Well why not try? Why not engage in an open and mature discussion so that I can try and understand your beliefs. To answer your question in regards to how god can be responsible for something if he doesn't exist. Firstly, although I myself am a non believer, the person in question is a christian. She receives many messages from people offering her prayers. Secondly, I haven't suggested that he is responsible for anything. I raised the question of 'if' he exists as those who have offered her prayers believe, how can he allow such suffering and torment. Thirdly, is it wrong to try and understand more about other peoples beliefs? That is what is wrong with the world as far as I'm concerned. Intolerance of other peoples religions. I haven't been offensive to anyone. I could argue that as an atheist I do everything to help others. Not because I believe god wants me too or that I will benefit from it as a result. But because I am a decent and caring person. The word atheist seems to upset a few of you on here. Why? Look at the number of conflicts, wars and suffering inflicted around the world because of religion and peoples inability to accept each others beliefs. Not from atheists. I saw a sign outside a church today that said "there is only one lord and one church". Isn't that somewhat antagonistic and ignorant of other faiths? There are 4,200 religions worldwide. But you are the only one that's real right?

I'm just opening up a dialogue to understand your thoughts. I am thrilled that some of the people who have responded on here have found strength and comfort from their belief in god.

Thank you again to those who have provided their thoughts and genuine feelings.

 

[Grace2022]

Hello Sid102
welcome. You are right. Dialogue and understanding is required. Not antagonism.

Ok, as Christians we have discovered that God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit exist and are right here with us. The three in one are our God. He loves us all. He wants us to be his.

I discovered this through pain. As my husband faced terminal cancer, I realized I need God. Previously i was atheist, thought I could do it all by myself, rely on my family and friends. Wrong. Many deserted me, including my own daughter. I was alone. BUT, through knowing Jesus, I have survived and indeed thrived! The joy and strength available to us Christians is overwhelming and very real. That's why we are so insistent on spreading the good news. The Bible is ALL true, it is the inspired word I'd God, it's how he communicates with us. Written by various writers inspired by the Holy Spirit who is everywhere, it is the greatest guide for living fully and fruitfully. Without fear, with love to all.

Above all, I feel the power and love of God in my life, my body, my mind. I have enormous peace of mind. Can you honestly say you are at peace? Are you confident about what happens to you when you die? I am. I di not fear death, because a new far better life awaits me. As this world wanes, the dawn of heaven begins. I look forward to spending eternity with God in an unimaginable heaven. I love life, God has blessed me with so much. After my husband s death I've rebuilt. New partner, New eyes that see everything in a fresh light. I lack nothing!

There, that's my perspective. I feel sad for atheists and all from other faiths. Because yes, Jesus is Lord. In accepting Him as saviour, you are immediately under His protection. That protection is vital. Because the Devil is also very very real. He wants you and me for himself. He does all he can to distract us from knowing the truth. Those who die without accepting Jesus will for sure go to the Devil and hell. Don't know about you, but I really do not fancy that!

So, what are your thoughts? Xx

 

[Grace2022]

Oh, sorry if I've rather repeated myself.
In answer to why so much suffering, apparently random.
God stands for love and all goodness. He actually does step in to help. BUT only when requested to in faith and humble prayer. Does the family of the girl in question believe in God? Do they pray?
When God answers prayers, he does it His way. Sometimes the only healing for an ill person is death. But God brings strength and peace to those who sincerely pray for it. Pain and suffering is part of being alive. It's how we deal with it that matters.

I sat quietly at my dying husband bedside. I prayed with the hospice chaplain. I did not vent rage or bitterness. Waste of energy. I prayed for a pain free peaceful end for him. It was granted. His body was riddled with cancer, I accepted it was his time. I didn't cry or have hysteric, I did not fall apart. Instead I was able to welcome our friends and family to come say quiet respectful goodbyes.
The I got on with practical matters after he had gone. All not through my strength, but through God. That's the difference in life between a Christian and a non believers. They tend to fall apart and turn to tears, alcohol, drugs and other crutches. They go to funerals filled with fear and bitterness. They blame God, instead of trusting and believing. They have no foundation to their lives and so are easily blown down by the storms of life. It doesn't have to be like that. If we can put aside our arrogance and pride, fall on our knees and ask God for help, He gives us all we need and huge abundance more than we could dream.

 

[Sidl02]

Oh, sorry if I've rather repeated myself.
In answer to why so much suffering, apparently random.
God stands for love and all goodness. He actually does step in to help. BUT only when requested to in faith and humble prayer. Does the family of the girl in question believe in God? Do they pray?
When God answers prayers, he does it His way. Sometimes the only healing for an ill person is death. But God brings strength and peace to those who sincerely pray for it. Pain and suffering is part of being alive. It's how we deal with it that matters.

I sat quietly at my dying husband bedside. I prayed with the hospice chaplain. I did not vent rage or bitterness. Waste of energy. I prayed for a pain free peaceful end for him. It was granted. His body was riddled with cancer, I accepted it was his time. I didn't cry or have hysteric, I did not fall apart. Instead I was able to welcome our friends and family to come say quiet respectful goodbyes.
The I got on with practical matters after he had gone. All not through my strength, but through God. That's the difference in life between a Christian and a non believers. They tend to fall apart and turn to tears, alcohol, drugs and other crutches. They go to funerals filled with fear and bitterness. They blame God, instead of trusting and believing. They have no foundation to their lives so are easily blown down by the storms of life. It doesn't have to be like that. If we can put aside our arrogance and pride, fall on our knees and ask God for help, He gives us all we need and huge abundance more than we could dream.

Thank you Lilly54 for such a heartfelt and honest account of your faith and your respectful response to my post. I know that initially I may have come across angry and demanding answers, but to be honest, I guess thats because I was. I was angry, not necessarily at god, but in general. I was angry for my friends suffering, for her daughter, for her beliefs, for myself probably. But I genuinely didn't come on here to offend anyone and I'm pleased that I have been accepted (except for a minority) on here and people have taken the time to discuss their faith with me maturely and respectfully.

I am so thrilled that you have received comfort from your faith after what must have been a very difficult time losing your husband. To answer your question, I don't have any fear of dying with me being an atheist. I don't know what is next for me. All I can do is focus on here and now. I trust that by being a caring and kind human being and having spent many years supporting others that I will have fulfilled my purpose for being here and I believe that everybody should be this person, not for admission into 'heaven' but because if there is anything after this life then those who are deserving should be rewarded, not those who are least deserving but are granted something so rewarding by practising their belief in God for a place where they don't deserve to be. Does that make sense?

I hope that your faith continues to bring you strength and happiness.

Ax

 

[Grace2022]

Thank you Lilly54 for such a heartfelt and honest account of your faith and your respectful response to my post. I know that initially I may have come across angry and demanding answers, but to be honest, I guess thats because I was. I was angry, not necessarily at god, but in general. I was angry for my friends suffering, for her daughter, for her beliefs, for myself probably. But I genuinely didn't come on here to offend anyone and I'm pleased that I have been accepted (except for a minority) on here and people have taken the time to discuss their faith with me maturely and respectfully.

I am so thrilled that you have received comfort from your faith after what must have been a very difficult time losing your husband. To answer your question, I don't have any fear of dying with me being an atheist. I don't know what is next for me. All I can do is focus on here and now. I trust that by being a caring and kind human being and having spent many years supporting others that I will have fulfilled my purpose for being here and I believe that everybody should be this person, not for admission into 'heaven' but because if there is anything after this life then those who are deserving should be rewarded, not those who are least deserving but are granted something so rewarding by practising their belief in God for a place where they don't deserve to be. Does that make sense?

I hope that your faith continues to bring you strength and happiness.

Ax

Hi,
excellent. If you would like to have a private message conversation with me, please do so. I would be delighted to exchange thoughts. If you don't, that's fine. But please continue to ask questions here. It is such a good thing you have sought us out.
The matter of your soul's destiny is the single most important matter ever! What could be more urgent?
Dialogue is vital.
Do me a little favour, please watchTBN UK, normally on freeview channel 65. There are excellent programs on there daily. Especially good are the discussion ones. TBN is my favourite channel from which I have learned so much over the past three years. I urge everyone to give it a go.

Got to rush now, ready for church! I wish you a good peaceful day. X

 

[theFijian]

It baffles me why some of you are so defensive. Some of you have responded rather unchristian like if you don't mind me saying. So that is your response to the questions I raised?? Why should I respond to an atheist? Well why not try? Why not engage in an open and mature discussion so that I can try and understand your beliefs. To answer your question in regards to how god can be responsible for something if he doesn't exist.

Firstly, although I myself am a non believer, the person in question is a christian. She receives many messages from people offering her prayers. Secondly, I haven't suggested that he is responsible for anything. I raised the question of 'if' he exists as those who have offered her prayers believe, how can he allow such suffering and torment.

Lol, not defensive just continually surprised that people who don't believe in God hold him responsible for things which he could have no responsibility for if he doesn't exist. Have you tried asking your friend why she is a Christian despite all that's happened to her?

First, the problem of evil or in your words : how can God allow suffering and tormet? This is by and large not an intellectual or philosophical problem, it is an emotional problem. So if you are really interested in a mature discussion here's your answer and be warned the question places an impossible burden on the athiest who asks it.

*If* there is an omniscient God, bearing in mind that *we* are not omniscient, then God could have any valid and moral reason to allow any kind of suffering in his infinite knowledge which we are not party to.

An (imperfect) analogy is that of when a parent chastises/punishes a child there is an element of suffering on the child's part as inflicted by the parent; but the parent can have a valid moral reason for allowing that suffering, usually for the child's long term benefit. The impossible burden that the atheist has is that they must be able to prove than an all-knowing God *cannot* have any valid reason for allowing any kind of suffering for some other greater moral purpose or good. That may be hard to reconcile emotionally, but intellectually there is no issue here, unless you are claiming to have infite knowledge.

Secondly, a proper understanding of who God shows us that he is not some kind of cosmic vending machine where we put our prayer in and we get out our desired answer to prayer. God is not our butler

Thirdly, the problem of evil cuts both ways. Atheism has no satisfactory answer for either the intellectual or emotional problem of evil. Atheism can only offer cosmic indifference, certainly not comfort.

Thirdly, is it wrong to try and understand more about other peoples beliefs? That is what is wrong with the world as far as I'm concerned. Intolerance of other peoples religions. I haven't been offensive to anyone. I could argue that as an atheist I do everything to help others. Not because I believe god wants me too or that I will benefit from it as a result. But because I am a decent and caring person. The word atheist seems to upset a few of you on here. Why? Look at the number of conflicts, wars and suffering inflicted around the world because of religion and peoples inability to accept each others beliefs. Not from atheists. I saw a sign outside a church today that said "there is only one lord and one church". Isn't that somewhat antagonistic and ignorant of other faiths? There are 4,200 religions worldwide. But you are the only one that's real right?

I'm just opening up a dialogue to understand your thoughts. I am thrilled that some of the people who have responded on here have found strength and comfort from their belief in god.

Thank you again to those who have provided their thoughts and genuine feelings.

What's laughable is when people try to pin the blame on religion for all the conflict in the world. You just have to have a passing knowledge of 20th Century history to know this simply isn't true. It's an atheist's PRATT.

Oh, and there are thousands of worldviews worldwide, but you atheists are the only one's that real right?