gentiles to keep from profaning the Sabbath -- even in the OT Sabbath made for mankind

[BobRyan]

No, you two are not alone. Never give up hope. A lot of Bobs out there have finally seen the real truth.

Certainly is true of me..

 

[BobRyan]

As usual Bob, you're doing a hack job ...<obligatory rant deleted here>

Amen! So it's not just me.

Interesting - that.

 

[Cribstyl]

God’s laws.

Teaching disobedience to God’s laws is not very loving - do you want your neighbors and loved ones to be destroyed in the fire? Teaching people to disobey God’s laws results in death, not life. Don’t you want people to live?

Christ loved people and taught them to obey God’s laws, and warned of the consequence of not doing so.

What I can’t find, is this lawless, new age, free-hugs-for-everybody Jesus you are pushing. The prophets didn’t teach about him, nor did the Apostles.

You're twisting the facts sir.
Who is teaching disobedience to God's laws? (Show 1 example)
We're preaching that the law of the new covenant is: To love God, and to love our neighbors.
We're saying that; scriptures spells out that; love fulfills the law.
Scriptures spells out that death for sin fulfills the law.

Satan's plan to condemn the world by sin was spoiled when Jesus died to condemn sin.
Rom 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:


God's covenants spells out the righteousness that God requires of every generation.
The new covenant spells out that it would NOT be like the one given to Moses (the law). (Jer 31:31-34)

Jesus died to fulfill the law given to Moses.
"We're not under the law" does not mean that sinning is acceptable.

Here is what we believe and teach.

NLT (makes it plain and simple)

Rom 3:21 ¶But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses[fn] and the prophets long ago.
Rom 3:22 We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.
Rom 3:23 ¶For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.
Rom 3:24 Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins.

Rom 3:25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past,
Rom 3:26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 ¶Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith.
Rom 3:28
So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

We're teaching the scriptures, we're not promoting sin. God forbid.

 

[Cribstyl]

On the contrary - I quote that part of the Bible you don't quote - as you just demonstrated again for us in your response to that post of mine filled with Bible texts you don't quote at all - even as I quote the full 4th commandment and the full 7th day of creation week.

How "instructive" for the unbiased objective readers.

And that means "the New Covenant" is quoted by me as well.

Jer 31:31-33
31"The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 32It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. 33"This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

No wonder the Sabbath is a sign -- given to all mankind in Eden "made for mankind" Mark 2:27 where for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" Isaiah 66:23

I don't expect you to post God's word and let it stay in it's context. Mark 2:27 I have addressed. Yes, It's talking about Sabbath being made for man. What it's not saying is that Sabbath was made at creation for mankind. Then by linking The Sabbath commandment in Ex 20:8-11 and God's 7 days of creation, you blur the line between God resting at creation and man (the children of Israel) being given rest after freedom from slavery.

 

[BobRyan]

Mark 2:27 says Sabbath is specifically made "for mankind"
Ex 20:11 says it began in Genesis 2 when it was sanctified for holy use.
Genesis 2:1-3 says the same.

Ex 20:8-11
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH) your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.


Gen 2:1-3
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.



Keep reading... it is not rocks that Keep the Sabbath holy - it is mankind

Mark 2:27 Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man (mankind), and not man (mankind) made for the Sabbath.

Both the Sabbath and mankind "made" in that 7 day week of Genesis 1-2:3


======
"man does not live by bread alone" -- Matthew 4... another reference to "mankind"

444 ánthrōpos – man, also the generic term for "mankind"; the human race; people, including women and men (Mt 4:19, 12:12, etc.).

(That was easy)
============

Isaiah 56;6-8 exists at the same time that the book of Exodus exists and all of it is the Word of God. including where God specifically singles out gentiles for Sabbath keeping blessings and in Isaiah 66:23 reminds us that the Sabbath is for "all mankind" just as in Mark 2:7.

"Mankind does not live by bread alone but by every WORD that proceeds from the mouth of God" is not a statement about "just Jews" or "just men and not women" as we all know.

Obviously

As usual Bob, you're doing a hack job ... <obligatory rant deleted here>
You're good at this con job, as you shamelessly....<obligatory rant deleted here> .

On the contrary - I quote that part of the Bible you don't quote - as you just demonstrated again for us in your response to that post of mine filled with Bible texts you don't quote at all - even as I quote the full 4th commandment and the full 7th day of creation week.

How "instructive" for the unbiased objective readers.

And that means "the New Covenant" is quoted by me as well.

Jer 31:31-33
31"The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 32It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. 33"This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

No wonder the Sabbath is a sign -- given to all mankind in Eden "made for mankind" Mark 2:27 where for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" Isaiah 66:23

I don't expect you to post God's word

Well as you read more of it - you will probably get used to seeing scripture posted.

Mark 2:27 I have addressed. Yes, It's talking about Sabbath being made for man.

Yes it is, so it is no wonder that scripture says - that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

What it's not saying is that Sabbath was made at creation for mankind.

Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:11 already says that.

Mark 2:27 confirms - with the making of both the Sabbath and mankind seen in Genesis 1-2 and Mark 2:27 addressing both as well.

So by "noticing" that God linked the Sabbath commandment in Ex 20:8-11 and God's 7 days of creation, we simply demonstrate good attention to detail so unwelcome to some - they won't even quote it.

Ex 20:11
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Gen 2:1-3
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

By not actually quoting those texts we can get to "you blur the line between God resting at creation and man .."

 

[Dkh587]

Hi David דויד, I do not believe you are dense, so I have to believe you do not , for some reason , want to answer my questions. God has given different people different laws since the creation of Adam. I will post my original statement with questions. You made a statement that I "teach disobedience to all of God’s commands." What are "all of God's commands."? You made, in my estimation, a very derogatory depiction of me. Now answer my questions.

"What laws are you referring to David דויד? Please show me where I have ever written that we are not to obey God's laws for us. Show me in the new covenant where gentiles are to keep the feasts, sacrificial offerings, pay tithe with livestock and produce. Show me where I am to wear the tzitzit and not cut my sideburns. Look, but you you will not find. And since you cannot find why is it you still insist we become like all the rest of the confused people."

The laws of God are in the law of God. Do you know what the law of God is?

 

[Dkh587]

You're twisting the facts sir.
Who is teaching disobedience to God's laws? (Show 1 example)
We're preaching that the law of the new covenant is: To love God, and to love our neighbors.
We're saying that; scriptures spells out that; love fulfills the law.
Scriptures spells out that death for sin fulfills the law.

Satan's plan to condemn the world by sin was spoiled when Jesus died to condemn sin.
Rom 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:


God's covenants spells out the righteousness that God requires of every generation.
The new covenant spells out that it would NOT be like the one given to Moses (the law). (Jer 31:31-34)

Jesus died to fulfill the law given to Moses.
"We're not under the law" does not mean that sinning is acceptable.

Here is what we believe and teach.

NLT (makes it plain and simple)

Rom 3:21 ¶But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses[fn] and the prophets long ago.
Rom 3:22 We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.
Rom 3:23 ¶For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.
Rom 3:24 Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins.

Rom 3:25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past,
Rom 3:26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 ¶Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith.
Rom 3:28
So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

We're teaching the scriptures, we're not promoting sin. God forbid.

Do you teach obedience to God’s law? Do you know what the law of God is? These are yes or no questions.

 

[Bob S]

Mark 2:27 says Sabbath is specifically made "for mankind"
Ex 20:11 says it began in Genesis 2 when it was sanctified for holy use.
Genesis 2:1-3 says the same.

Israelites have never entered into God's rest. Ditto for many SDAs. Heb 4 explaines this fact. There is a rest for all mankind and it is found in Jesus not in some day that God commanded Israel to observe that was dedicated to commemorate Israel's escape from bondage in Egypt. ‘Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.’ 8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

That rest is Jesus. God gave Jesus to us and we are to rest in Him. SDAs are so fixated on the weekly Sabbath of Sinai that they do not rest in God everyday as He planned. They greet each other with "happy Sabbath" one day a week. Our happy Sabbath is today and every day. If you will notice in Gen 2 there is no end to the Seventh-day. Adam and Eve rested in the garden with God until after they sinned. After they sinned they were put to work because of their disobedience. Jesus invites every living soul, all mankind, to 28 ‘Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.’ Matt 11

So yes, the Sabbath that God has for all mankind is Jesus rest and we can find it today and everyday. The weekly Sabbath was for Israel only and ended at Calvary. Bob is missing the boat and all we can do is continue to pray for him and all others that have not accepted Jesus offer of eternal rest and instead try to keep one day a week that was dedicated to commemorate Israel's escape from bondage in Egypt.

 

[Bob S]

The laws of God are in the law of God. Do you know what the law of God is?

Show me in the new covenant where gentiles are to keep the feasts, sacrificial offerings, pay tithe with livestock and produce. Show me where I am to wear the tzitzit and not cut my sideburns. Look, but you you will not find. And since you cannot find why is it you still insist we become like all the rest of the confused people."

 

[BobRyan]

Mark 2:27 says Sabbath is specifically made "for mankind"
Ex 20:11 says it began in Genesis 2 when it was sanctified for holy use.
Genesis 2:1-3 says the same.

Ex 20:8-11
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH) your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.


Gen 2:1-3
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.



Keep reading... it is not rocks that Keep the Sabbath holy - it is mankind

Mark 2:27 Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man (mankind), and not man (mankind) made for the Sabbath.

Both the Sabbath and mankind "made" in that 7 day week of Genesis 1-2:3


======
"man does not live by bread alone" -- Matthew 4... another reference to "mankind"

444 ánthrōpos – man, also the generic term for "mankind"; the human race; people, including women and men (Mt 4:19, 12:12, etc.).

(That was easy)
============

Isaiah 56;6-8 exists at the same time that the book of Exodus exists and all of it is the Word of God. including where God specifically singles out gentiles for Sabbath keeping blessings and in Isaiah 66:23 reminds us that the Sabbath is for "all mankind" just as in Mark 2:7.

"Mankind does not live by bread alone but by every WORD that proceeds from the mouth of God" is not a statement about "just Jews" or "just men and not women" as we all know.

Obviously



On the contrary - I quote that part of the Bible you don't quote - as you just demonstrated again for us in your response to that post of mine filled with Bible texts you don't quote at all - even as I quote the full 4th commandment and the full 7th day of creation week.

How "instructive" for the unbiased objective readers.

And that means "the New Covenant" is quoted by me as well.

Jer 31:31-33
31"The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 32It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. 33"This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

No wonder the Sabbath is a sign -- given to all mankind in Eden "made for mankind" Mark 2:27 where for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" Isaiah 66:23

Well as you read more of it - you will probably get used to seeing scripture posted.




Yes it is, so it is no wonder that scripture says - that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23



Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:11 already says that.

Mark 2:27 confirms - with the making of both the Sabbath and mankind seen in Genesis 1-2 and Mark 2:27 addressing both as well.

So by "noticing" that God linked the Sabbath commandment in Ex 20:8-11 and God's 7 days of creation, we simply demonstrate good attention to detail so unwelcome to some - they won't even quote it.

Ex 20:11
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Gen 2:1-3
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

By not actually quoting those texts we can get to "you blur the line between God resting at creation and man .."

so then -- dismissing all the "inconvenient scripture" above - we get...

Israelites have never entered into God's rest.

Do you include Moses and Elijah in Matthew 17 - standing in glory with Christ -- in that sweeping assumption above?

Gal 3:8 "the gospel was preached to Abraham"

Heb 11
Moses "25 choosing rather to endure ill-treatment with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, 26 considering the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward."

Heb 11
7 By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Mark 2:27 says Sabbath is specifically made "for mankind"
Ex 20:11 says it began in Genesis 2 when it was sanctified for holy use.
Genesis 2:1-3 says the same.

Ex 20:8-11
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH) your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.


Gen 2:1-3
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.



Keep reading... it is not rocks that Keep the Sabbath holy - it is mankind

Mark 2:27 Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man (mankind), and not man (mankind) made for the Sabbath.

Both the Sabbath and mankind "made" in that 7 day week of Genesis 1-2:3


======
"man does not live by bread alone" -- Matthew 4... another reference to "mankind"

444 ánthrōpos – man, also the generic term for "mankind"; the human race; people, including women and men (Mt 4:19, 12:12, etc.).

(That was easy)
============

Isaiah 56;6-8 exists at the same time that the book of Exodus exists and all of it is the Word of God. including where God specifically singles out gentiles for Sabbath keeping blessings and in Isaiah 66:23 reminds us that the Sabbath is for "all mankind" just as in Mark 2:7.

"Mankind does not live by bread alone but by every WORD that proceeds from the mouth of God" is not a statement about "just Jews" or "just men and not women" as we all know.

Obviously



On the contrary - I quote that part of the Bible you don't quote - as you just demonstrated again for us in your response to that post of mine filled with Bible texts you don't quote at all - even as I quote the full 4th commandment and the full 7th day of creation week.

How "instructive" for the unbiased objective readers.

And that means "the New Covenant" is quoted by me as well.

Jer 31:31-33
31"The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 32It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. 33"This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

No wonder the Sabbath is a sign -- given to all mankind in Eden "made for mankind" Mark 2:27 where for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" Isaiah 66:23



Well as you read more of it - you will probably get used to seeing scripture posted.




Yes it is, so it is no wonder that scripture says - that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23



Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:11 already says that.

Mark 2:27 confirms - with the making of both the Sabbath and mankind seen in Genesis 1-2 and Mark 2:27 addressing both as well.

So by "noticing" that God linked the Sabbath commandment in Ex 20:8-11 and God's 7 days of creation, we simply demonstrate good attention to detail so unwelcome to some - they won't even quote it.

Ex 20:11
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Gen 2:1-3
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

By not actually quoting those texts we can get to "you blur the line between God resting at creation and man .."

You might add the Armstrongites to your list of Sabbatarians. They are the cult I came from, as a young man.

However, they are a bit more consistent than SDAs. SDAs deny that the annual festivals and New Moons are applicable to Christians, but oddly claim that the weekly Sabbath still applies.

Like other Sabbatarians, they use faulty logic with their claims.

For example, note that no human kept the Sabbath prior to God's dealing with Moses. This person claims that the Sabbath for man began at the creation, however you won't read of any human observance of the Sabbath prior to the Exodus from Egypt. In fact, God introduced it as a sign specific to Israel, and not to mankind as a whole.

Regarding his emphasis of "man" by Jesus in Mark 2:27, the Jews were men, so I don't see his point. Well, I did see it as a Sabbatarian, but I don't see it now.

Also, note that he refers to Isaiah with regards to proving that mankind will observe the Sabbath forever...the problem with that is that Isaiah (and other OT prophets) refer to animal sacrifices, sin offerings, observances of New Moons and festivals in the same sections, yet the SDA will not acknowledge that these observances are still valid. You see, what he is doing is being inconsistent. He uses a verse to claim that Sabbath is still applicable, or applicable forever, when the surrounding verses also proclaim that animal sacrifices, sin offerings, observances of New Moons and festivals are still applicable.

This is because groups like the SDAs and Armstrongites use "proof texting". They will not make their points in a manner where the entire context of the book is in sight, but will ignore that and quote only specific verses that "make their point". The big issue is their hermeneutics, or rules of biblical interpretation.

Finally, they really butcher Colossians 2:16-17. Colossians 2:16-17 includes the weekly Sabbath, festivals, and New Moons as the "shadows" of the Mosaic Covenant. SDAs have spent a lot of time trying to exclude the weekly Sabbath from this trio of ceremonies related to calendar observances. However, it is obvious the weekly Sabbath is, in fact, included.

In the OT, you will often find them mentioned in this pattern....daily, monthly, and annually, or the reverse order. This is what Paul is doing in Colossians 2:16-17.

Dale Ratzlaff, in his book "Sabbath in Christ", explains Colossians 2:16-17 very well, if anyone wants to read his book. He was a 3rd or 4th generation SDA, with several ancestors in ministry. He began to see the problems with their theology, and has addressed it in a free magazine called Proclamation!

SDAs and similar groups are all about two things: diet and days. That is their claim to fame, and their fixation. SDA leaders, historically, claimed that eating meat leads to masturbation and nymphomania. Spices, ketchup, meat, caffeine and hot cereals apparently excite the desire to engage in these sins, according to SDA leaders. That is why Kellogg invented his cold cereals.

It is interesting for me that these two aspects become so pronounced in these sorts of groups: SDAs, Armstrongites (United Church of God, Restored Church of God, Living Church of God, etcetera), and Hebrew Roots Movement folks. After being an Armstrongite and going on to evangelical Christianity, I realize the focus is much more on outward things than deeper issues within the person's fallen nature.

 

[BobRyan]

You might add the Armstrongites to your list of Sabbatarians. They are the cult I came from, as a young man.

I could have but I don't know much about Armstrongites (as you call them) except that Walter Martin classifies them as a cult.

Since SDAs are the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world according to ChristianityToday in its Feb 2015 article - I don't mind keeping the list as is.

However, they are a bit more consistent than SDAs. SDAs deny that the annual festivals and New Moons are applicable to Christians,

All the denominations listed in my signature line for sunday keeping - also freely admit that the 4th commandment still applies but not the annual feasts. The reason that almost all of Christianity does that is because Hebrews 10 says all the animal sacrifices and offerings end at the cross - so then no liturgy for a service remains in such cases.

I guess we were all just being consistent on that point

but oddly claim that the weekly Sabbath still applies.

As noted .. they all do that even the sunday keeping groups in that list below as well as D.L. Moody, R.C.Sproul, C. H. Spurgeon etd

"The difference" is that the sunday groups bend that commandment to re-point it to week-day-1

For example, note that no human kept the Sabbath prior to God's dealing with Moses.

Not true. The Sabbath is made in Genesis 2:1-3 as a holy day according to Exodus 20:11 and Gen 2:1-3. Cain is not told "not to kill" before he kills his brother - but still God tells Cain before that "sin is crouching at your door". Sin is transgression of the Law - 1John 3:4 ... that had not been written by Moses at the time of Cain.

Because as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" and the Catholic Catechism, and D.L. Moody and almost all other Christian denominations admit - the Ten Commandments existed from the start. It was already a "sin" for Adam to kill Eve or Cain to kill Able.

And so even in Genesis 7 we see a reference to clean/unclean that is not even defined for the reader at all until Lev 11. Moses gives those books to his audience - Israel.

This person claims that the Sabbath for man began at the creation, however you won't read of any human observance of the Sabbath prior to the Exodus from Egypt.

Nor do you find

"Do not take God's name in vain"
"Honor your father and mother"
"do not lie"
"do not covet"
"Love your neighbor as yourself"
"Love God with all your heart"

etc before Exodus.

Regarding his emphasis of "man" by Jesus in Mark 2:27, the Jews were men, so I don't see his point.

"Man shall not live by bread alone" Matthew 4:4 was not a claim that only Jews need the word of God.

the NT never defines "Man" as "just Jews"

Heb 9 "it is appointed unto Man - once to die and then comes the judgment"


I am glad that even these Sunday sources affirm ALL of Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

For all eternity after the cross in the New earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

Gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping Isaiah 56:6-8

More Bible less ad lib

 

[BobRyan]

SDAs and similar groups are all about two things: diet and days.

In real life the mission of the Seventh-day Adventist church as stated by its General Conference is the everlasting gospel of the 3 angels message found in Rev 14

 

[BobRyan]

You might add the Armstrongites to your list of Sabbatarians. They are the cult I came from, as a young man.

However, they are a bit more consistent than SDAs. SDAs deny that the annual festivals and New Moons are applicable to Christians, .
Like other Sabbatarians, they use faulty logic with their claims.
...

SDAs and similar groups are all about two things: diet and days. That is their claim to fame, and their fixation. ... SDAs, Armstrongites .

We already have a few bashing-other-denominations-is-my-only-agenda folks here and 1 or 2 self-proclaimed x-SDAs here that try to redirect each thread to "why I don't like SDAs or the SDA denomination" and that always fails two ways.

1. Not everyone here affirming the Ten Commandments - is SDA and nobody is arguing "because I am SDA the Ten Commandments must be legit for Christians"
2. Simply complaining about some off-topic doctrine does nothing to answer the Bible texts posted that affirm God's Ten Commandments -- specifically the Sabbath commandment.

Those two facts do not change

 

[BobRyan]

Dale Ratzlaff, in his book "Sabbath in Christ", explains Colossians 2:16-17 very well, if anyone wants to read his book. He was a 3rd or 4th generation SDA, with several ancestors in ministry. He began to see the problems with their theology, and has addressed it in a free magazine called Proclamation!

since you mentioned Col 2 and "some other guy" - I will add your post to the Col 2 thread.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

We're preaching that the law of the new covenant is: To love God, and to love our neighbors.

So you agree that Yeshua was teaching Torah. The law of the "old" covenant is the same since that is where those 2 laws come from originally...Deuteronomy and Leviticus.
SHABBAT SHALOM!

 

[Danthemailman]

You might add the Armstrongites to your list of Sabbatarians. They are the cult I came from, as a young man.

However, they are a bit more consistent than SDAs. SDAs deny that the annual festivals and New Moons are applicable to Christians, but oddly claim that the weekly Sabbath still applies.

Like other Sabbatarians, they use faulty logic with their claims.

For example, note that no human kept the Sabbath prior to God's dealing with Moses. This person claims that the Sabbath for man began at the creation, however you won't read of any human observance of the Sabbath prior to the Exodus from Egypt. In fact, God introduced it as a sign specific to Israel, and not to mankind as a whole.

Regarding his emphasis of "man" by Jesus in Mark 2:27, the Jews were men, so I don't see his point. Well, I did see it as a Sabbatarian, but I don't see it now.

Also, note that he refers to Isaiah with regards to proving that mankind will observe the Sabbath forever...the problem with that is that Isaiah (and other OT prophets) refer to animal sacrifices, sin offerings, observances of New Moons and festivals in the same sections, yet the SDA will not acknowledge that these observances are still valid. You see, what he is doing is being inconsistent. He uses a verse to claim that Sabbath is still applicable, or applicable forever, when the surrounding verses also proclaim that animal sacrifices, sin offerings, observances of New Moons and festivals are still applicable.

This is because groups like the SDAs and Armstrongites use "proof texting". They will not make their points in a manner where the entire context of the book is in sight, but will ignore that and quote only specific verses that "make their point". The big issue is their hermeneutics, or rules of biblical interpretation.

Finally, they really butcher Colossians 2:16-17. Colossians 2:16-17 includes the weekly Sabbath, festivals, and New Moons as the "shadows" of the Mosaic Covenant. SDAs have spent a lot of time trying to exclude the weekly Sabbath from this trio of ceremonies related to calendar observances. However, it is obvious the weekly Sabbath is, in fact, included.

In the OT, you will often find them mentioned in this pattern....daily, monthly, and annually, or the reverse order. This is what Paul is doing in Colossians 2:16-17.

Dale Ratzlaff, in his book "Sabbath in Christ", explains Colossians 2:16-17 very well, if anyone wants to read his book. He was a 3rd or 4th generation SDA, with several ancestors in ministry. He began to see the problems with their theology, and has addressed it in a free magazine called Proclamation!

SDAs and similar groups are all about two things: diet and days. That is their claim to fame, and their fixation. SDA leaders, historically, claimed that eating meat leads to masturbation and nymphomania. Spices, ketchup, meat, caffeine and hot cereals apparently excite the desire to engage in these sins, according to SDA leaders. That is why Kellogg invented his cold cereals.

It is interesting for me that these two aspects become so pronounced in these sorts of groups: SDAs, Armstrongites (United Church of God, Restored Church of God, Living Church of God, etcetera), and Hebrew Roots Movement folks. After being an Armstrongite and going on to evangelical Christianity, I realize the focus is much more on outward things than deeper issues within the person's fallen nature.

Excellent post brother and welcome to Christian Forums!

 

[BobRyan]

We already have a few bashing-other-denominations-is-my-only-agenda folks here and 1 or 2 self-proclaimed x-SDAs here that try to redirect each thread to "why I don't like SDAs or the SDA denomination" and that always fails two ways.

1. Not everyone here affirming the Ten Commandments - is SDA and nobody is arguing "because I am SDA the Ten Commandments must be legit for Christians"
2. Simply complaining about some off-topic doctrine does nothing to answer the Bible texts posted that affirm God's Ten Commandments -- specifically the Sabbath commandment.

Those two facts do not change

Excellent post brother and welcome to Christian Forums!

I am always glad to see a point affirmed.

 

[Dkh587]

Show me in the new covenant where gentiles are to keep the feasts, sacrificial offerings, pay tithe with livestock and produce. Show me where I am to wear the tzitzit and not cut my sideburns. Look, but you you will not find. And since you cannot find why is it you still insist we become like all the rest of the confused people."

The new covenant is God writing his Law on the hearts of Israel - Jeremiah 31:33. The new covenant is not a lawless covenant made with Gentiles who live in disobedience to God’s law.

We can’t find your lawless covenant with Gentiles anywhere in the Bible.

 

[HARK!]

We're saying that; scriptures spells out that; love fulfills the law.

John 14:15 New King James Version (NKJV)

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.