gentiles to keep from profaning the Sabbath -- even in the OT Sabbath made for mankind

[BobRyan]

I would like to remind you that Is 66:23 is a SDA proof text.

For the rest of us -- it is scripture.

it says "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.

It gets referenced each time someone speculates that the Sabbath was not intended "for all mankind".

Bob uses that text to pound Sabbath keeping

Never to "pound Sabbath keeping" -- I leave that to "others".

I use it to bring up that "inconvenient detail" each time someone repeats and attempt to speculate that the Sabbath was not intended "for all mankind".

If SDAs are going to use that one verse as proof that I am required to observe a day given only to Israel

Now see? It did not take long at all for someone to ignore the inconvenient details we see in Isaiah 66:23 so as to speculate that the 4th Commandment Sabbath is "day given only to Israel " without even addressing the "detail" in the text that flat out refutes that speculation.

So "obvious" a detail that almost all Christian denominations on planet Earth admit to it.
=================================
I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments (all TEN) for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

Yes, that's abuse of scriptures.

You have free will - you are welcomed to your opinion.

Why not post the whole text?
You've edited the text beyond recognition or truth. Here's the text below.
Isa 66:23
And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the LORD.

True it does say that - because in the NEW earth there are two creation events... the one in Genesis 1-2 and the one in Rev 21 with the "New Earth" creation.

So while today we just have one to remember -- but after Rev 21 there will be two of those events to remember.

 

[Cribstyl]

You have free will - you are welcomed to your opinion.

My opinion? If Isa 66:23 say this below in blue it's not my opinion, it's the whole truth.
If you made no reference to New Moon to another, it's not my opinion, It's a matter of fact.
My argument was God is telling us prophetically the interval of times people will come to worship in the last days.

Isa 66:23
And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the LORD.

Here is your claim;
For the rest of us -- it is scripture.

it says "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.

 

[Cribstyl]

True it does say that - because in the NEW earth there are two creation events... the one in Genesis 1-2 and the one in Rev 21 with the "New Earth" creation.

So while today we just have one to remember -- but after Rev 21 there will be two of those events to remember.

Are you saying that Gen 1-2 is a New Earth creation event? Please explain?

 

[Jesse Johnson]

Yes, that's abuse of scriptures. Why not post the whole text?
You've edited the text beyond recognition or truth. Here's the text below.
Isa 66:23
And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the LORD.

Indeed, why not post the whole text?
For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Isaiah 66:22-24

My comments is that God is prophesying the frequency when men will worship Him during the last days on on earth.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the language of the text doesn't seem to suggest such a restriction of time. In fact, it strongly suggests post-parousia in verse 22.

Question: Is God saying All mankind will be keeping the Sabbath forever?

Is there any reason to believe otherwise from a plain reading of the text (the default hermeneutic)?

You don't explain that " one New Moon to another" spells out a time period of a month.

Isn't it self-explanatory?

You don't explain that "one Sabbath to another" spells out a time period of a week.

The ancient Hebrew people didn't distinguish between the day of rest and the concept of a weekly cycle. To them, they went hand-in-hand. Only 2 out of 27 English translations on Biblehub.com render the Hebrew to "week" over "Sabbath" in this instance.

You've added "all mankind" to replace all flesh so you can edit.

How does "all mankind" embellish upon "all flesh?"

You've added after the cross.

Does the making of the new heavens and the new earth not come after the cross?

I included verse 24 simply because it has been raised as an objection to a plain reading of verses 22 and 23. It does not harmonize with the other two in light of the whole testimony of Scripture so it must be either symbolic or out of chronology (both of which are often employed in prophetic passages; e.g., see nearly the entire book of Revelation)

By the way, what exactly constitutes a "whole text?"
In my experience, it usually depends on exactly what someone is trying to eisigete.
Alas, almost all of us are guilty of this infraction to some extent.

 

[Cribstyl]

Indeed, why not post the whole text?
For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Isaiah 66:22-24


Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the language of the text doesn't seem to suggest such a restriction of time. In fact, it strongly suggests post-parousia in verse 22.

Is there any reason to believe otherwise from a plain reading of the text (the default hermeneutic)?

Isn't it self-explanatory?

The ancient Hebrew people didn't distinguish between the day of rest and the concept of a weekly cycle. To them, they went hand-in-hand. Only 2 out of 27 English translations on Biblehub.com render the Hebrew to "week" over "Sabbath" in this instance.

How does "all mankind" embellish upon "all flesh?"

Does the making of the new heavens and the new earth not come after the cross?

I included verse 24 simply because it has been raised as an objection to a plain reading of verses 22 and 23. It does not harmonize with the other two in light of the whole testimony of Scripture so it must be either symbolic or out of chronology (both of which are often employed in prophetic passages; e.g., see nearly the entire book of Revelation)

By the way, what exactly constitutes a "whole text?"
In my experience, it usually depends on exactly what someone is trying to eisigete.
Alas, almost all of us are guilty of this infraction to some extent.

As you say everyone is entitled to their opinion. Initial respect opens the door to dialog.

 

[Bob S]

Indeed, why not post the whole text?
For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Isaiah 66:22-24


Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the language of the text doesn't seem to suggest such a restriction of time. In fact, it strongly suggests post-parousia in verse 22.

Is there any reason to believe otherwise from a plain reading of the text (the default hermeneutic)?

Isn't it self-explanatory?

The ancient Hebrew people didn't distinguish between the day of rest and the concept of a weekly cycle. To them, they went hand-in-hand. Only 2 out of 27 English translations on Biblehub.com render the Hebrew to "week" over "Sabbath" in this instance.

How does "all mankind" embellish upon "all flesh?"

Does the making of the new heavens and the new earth not come after the cross?

I included verse 24 simply because it has been raised as an objection to a plain reading of verses 22 and 23. It does not harmonize with the other two in light of the whole testimony of Scripture so it must be either symbolic or out of chronology (both of which are often employed in prophetic passages; e.g., see nearly the entire book of Revelation)

By the way, what exactly constitutes a "whole text?"
In my experience, it usually depends on exactly what someone is trying to eisigete.
Alas, almost all of us are guilty of this infraction to some extent.

Hi Jessie, sorry you bailed out on me I call it hit and run. I am glad you posted though because it gives me a little insight into your character. By the way, I have heard all the rhetoric about the SDA defense of the IJ. I trust Jesus to know His sheep so I scratch my head when SDAs tell us that the reason for the IJ is so that all of the universe will know why some were not chosen. Does the universe have any doubt about trusting Jesus words that He already knows His sheep? So, I will pass your invitation to sit with you and discuss the topic further. The doctrine is nothing but a ruse to save face after the great 1844 disappointment.

In your "post-parousia" according to Isaiah 65-66 you just might live as long as a tree but if you sin you will die before one hundred years. Babies born will not die as infants nor will people bear children doomed to misfortune. Supposedly, you will not remember the past,(Is 65:17) but then after the Sabbath service you will walk past the dead bodies of the past or maybe they are the bodies of those who sinned and didn't make to one hundred. We can have an intelligent conversation about those two chapters or you can do as you did in your first post to me. "I can't believe your incredibly rude, arrogant and bitter posts are allowed to continue." and then didn't debate any of the issues that caused you to write your rebuke. As you can see I am still posting the real truth no matter what you may write about me or my posts.

 

[Jesse Johnson]

As you say everyone is entitled to their opinion. Initial respect opens the door to dialog.

So does responding to the points raised in a post.

 

[Jesse Johnson]

Dale was a former fourth generation Seventh Day Adventist. I am a former member of a Sabbathkeeping cult, as well.

I believe it is strictly against forum rules to refer (even by implication) to one of the faith groups accepted as "Christian" in the faith groups list of the forum as a "cult."

By the way, your clever use of terms is not lost on me. "Judaizer" is a fairly common derogatory term often used to provoke the ire of its targeted person or group. It is, effectively, a thinly-veiled insult.

Also interesting are terms such as "TRULY interested" and "open-minded." What would be more interesting would be definitions of these terms as you see them.

 

[Jesse Johnson]

Hi Jessie, sorry you bailed out on me I call it hit and run. I am glad you posted though because it gives me a little insight into your character. By the way, I have heard all the rhetoric about the SDA defense of the IJ. I trust Jesus to know His sheep so I scratch my head when SDAs tell us that the reason for the IJ is so that all of the universe will know why some were not chosen. Does the universe have any doubt about trusting Jesus words that He already knows His sheep? So, I will pass your invitation to sit with you and discuss the topic further. The doctrine is nothing but a ruse to save face after the great 1844 disappointment.

In your "post-parousia" according to Isaiah 65-66 you just might live as long as a tree but if you sin you will die before one hundred years. Babies born will not die as infants nor will people bear children doomed to misfortune. Supposedly, you will not remember the past,(Is 65:17) but then after the Sabbath service you will walk past the dead bodies of the past or maybe they are the bodies of those who sinned and didn't make to one hundred. We can have an intelligent conversation about those two chapters or you can do as you did in your first post to me. "I can't believe your incredibly rude, arrogant and bitter posts are allowed to continue." and then didn't debate any of the issues that caused you to write your rebuke. As you can see I am still posting the real truth no matter what you may write about me or my posts.

Sorry, I was indisposed by a death in the family. Hope this redeems your insight into my character just a little.

 

[Murray J]

Isaiah 56 - blessing on those who choose not to profane the things of God - specifically God's Sabbath.

Isaiah 56:6
6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
8 The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says,
“Yet I will gather to him
Others besides those who are gathered to him.”

NASB: “Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the Sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;

NKJV: “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—

Why does God want gentiles to keep from profaning the Sabbath?

"the Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

Ex 20:11 the Sabbath was made holy in Genesis 2:1-2 - for mankind

Acts 13 gentiles that hear the gospel insist that it be preached to them "the NEXT Sabbath"

Acts 18:4 "Every Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles - hear the gospel preached.

The Sabbath was made not for mankind but for Adamkind (there is a difference.) Gentiles (ethnos/nation/people) in the New Testament are non-Jewish Israelites. We know that because Paul explains who the Gentiles/Nations are in Rom 9:25-26 'As He also says in Hosea, "I will call those not My people, My people; and those not beloved, Beloved." And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them. "You are not My people; there they shall be called sons of the living God." '
Former Israelites became Not My People (ie neither Jews nor Children of Israel.) But in the Messiah these former Israelites would come back into the fold of His People. The "dividing wall of separation" would be broken down and ther two become one again - in Jesus.

Keeping holy the 7th day Sabbath was part of Yahweh Elohim's covenant with the Children of Jacob. He instigated it with Adam, the first son of Yahweh and completed it with Jesus, the last son of Yahweh. Once that generation were judged/saved during the resulting judgement on the cities of Israel culminating in the destruction of Jerusalem (in 70AD), and His disciples went to be with Him in the sky to his Father's House, the old covenant ceased.

Sabbath keeping and all the laws were not needed any longer because Yahweh and His People were now one (in the Father's House) which had been the point of the law in the first place. Jesus had brought this about (as had been promised by all the Israelite prophets through the ages.)

In the New Covenant, believers in the Father's House who live with Jesus there are with the Lord all the time and don't need a Sabbath rest.

The Bible doesn't speak about our age.

 

[Dkh587]

The Sabbath was made not for mankind but for Adamkind (there is a difference.) Gentiles (ethnos/nation/people) in the New Testament are non-Jewish Israelites. We know that because Paul explains who the Gentiles/Nations are in Rom 9:25-26 'As He also says in Hosea, "I will call those not My people, My people; and those not beloved, Beloved." And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them. "You are not My people; there they shall be called sons of the living God." '
Former Israelites became Not My People (ie neither Jews nor Children of Israel.) But in the Messiah these former Israelites would come back into the fold of His People. The "dividing wall of separation" would be broken down and ther two become one again - in Jesus.

Keeping holy the 7th day Sabbath was part of Yahweh Elohim's covenant with the Children of Jacob. He instigated it with Adam, the first son of Yahweh and completed it with Jesus, the last son of Yahweh. Once that generation were judged/saved during the resulting judgement on the cities of Israel culminating in the destruction of Jerusalem (in 70AD), and His disciples went to be with Him in the sky to his Father's House, the old covenant ceased.

Sabbath keeping and all the laws were not needed any longer because Yahweh and His People were now one (in the Father's House) which had been the point of the law in the first place. Jesus had brought this about (as had been promised by all the Israelite prophets through the ages.)

In the New Covenant, believers in the Father's House who live with Jesus there are with the Lord all the time and don't need a Sabbath rest.

The Bible doesn't speak about our age.

You say the Sabbath was part of the covenant with Israel, but are you aware of who the new covenant is with?

 

[HARK!]

Sabbath keeping and all the laws were not needed any longer because Yahweh and His People were now one (in the Father's House) which had been the point of the law in the first place.

Paul on the Law: Ephesians 2

Continued from: Paul on the Law: Ephesians 1

Ephesians 2
1 And you, being dead to your offenses and sins,

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

2 in which once you walked, in accord with the eon of this world, in accord with the chief of the jurisdiction of the air, the spirit now operating in the sons of stubbornness "

Past tense

3 (among whom we also all behaved ourselves once in the lusts of our flesh, doing the will of the flesh and of the comprehension, and were, in our nature, children of indignation, even as the rest),

Past tense

4 yet God, being rich in mercy, because of His vast love with which He loves us" 5 (we also being dead to the offenses and the lusts), vivifies us together in Christ (in grace are you saved!)" 6 and rouses us together and seats us together among the celestials, in Christ Jesus, 7 that, in the oncoming eons, He should be displaying the transcendent riches of His grace in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus." 8 For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, 9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." 10 For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them."

So we were created for good works and should be walking in them? Good to know. I suppose I should try to remember that.

11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh - who are termed 'Uncircumcision'

Once? So not anymore are we of the heathen nations.

by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands -"

The people of Israel who were physically circumcised, according to the law, and the eternal covenant with Abraham.


12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world."

The Ephesians were (past tense) apart from Israel, having been apart from Christ.

Being in Christ is being a citizen of Israel.

13 Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ."

"Once, " again past tense.

14 For He is our Peace, Who makes both one, and razes the central wall of the barrier"

If you are one in the body of Yahshua; you are a citizen of Israel.

(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

15 (the enmity in His flesh), nullifying the law

Nullifying the LAW?!?.....

...But Yahshua said...

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens



of precepts in decrees,

Oh! Well I guess I should have read on, before jumping to conclusions.

The law of precepts, "in" decrees...

What's a decree?


Definition of decree
(Entry 1 of 2)
1 : an order usually having the force of law a judicial decree by royal decree
2a : a religious ordinance enacted by council or titular head a papal decree
Definition of DECREE

G1378 δόγμα - Strong's Greek Lexicon Number
δόγμα
that which seems to one, an opinion, dogma
G1378 δόγμα - Strong's Greek Lexicon


Definition of dogma
1a : something held as an established opinion
Definition of DOGMA

Thayer:
1) doctrine, decree, ordinance
G1378 δόγμα - Strong's Greek Lexicon

Definition of doctrine

1a : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : dogma
Definition of DOCTRINE


Oh! Well that's very much different. It's the dogmatic, man made, Pharisaic, laws of the Talmud, that Yashua rebuked, that were done away with.

Hallelu YAH!

that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace;" 16 and should be reconciling both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in it." 17 And, coming, He brings the evangel of peace to you, those afar, and peace to those near, 18 for through Him we both have had access, in one spirit, to the Father." 19 Consequently, then, no longer are you guests and sojourners, but are fellow-citizens of the saints and belong to God's family,

Believers in Yahshua are Israel!

(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

(CLV) 1Jn 3:9
Everyone who is begotten of God is not doing sin, for His seed is remaining in him, and he can not be sinning, for he is begotten of God.

20 being built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, the capstone of the corner being Christ Jesus Himself, 21 in Whom the entire building, being connected together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord:" 22 in Whom you, also, are being built together for God's dwelling place, in spirit."

Hallelu YAH!

 

[Murray J]

You say the Sabbath was part of the covenant with Israel, but are you aware of who the new covenant is with?

The new covenant was with reunited House of Israel and the House of Judah.

 

[Murray J]

Paul on the Law: Ephesians 2

Continued from: Paul on the Law: Ephesians 1

Ephesians 2
1 And you, being dead to your offenses and sins,

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

2 in which once you walked, in accord with the eon of this world, in accord with the chief of the jurisdiction of the air, the spirit now operating in the sons of stubbornness "

Past tense

3 (among whom we also all behaved ourselves once in the lusts of our flesh, doing the will of the flesh and of the comprehension, and were, in our nature, children of indignation, even as the rest),

Past tense

4 yet God, being rich in mercy, because of His vast love with which He loves us" 5 (we also being dead to the offenses and the lusts), vivifies us together in Christ (in grace are you saved!)" 6 and rouses us together and seats us together among the celestials, in Christ Jesus, 7 that, in the oncoming eons, He should be displaying the transcendent riches of His grace in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus." 8 For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, 9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." 10 For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them."

So we were created for good works and should be walking in them? Good to know. I suppose I should try to remember that.

11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh - who are termed 'Uncircumcision'

Once? So not anymore are we of the heathen nations.

by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands -"

The people of Israel who were physically circumcised, according to the law, and the eternal covenant with Abraham.


12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world."

The Ephesians were (past tense) apart from Israel, having been apart from Christ.

Being in Christ is being a citizen of Israel.

13 Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ."

"Once, " again past tense.

14 For He is our Peace, Who makes both one, and razes the central wall of the barrier"

If you are one in the body of Yahshua; you are a citizen of Israel.

(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

15 (the enmity in His flesh), nullifying the law

Nullifying the LAW?!?.....

...But Yahshua said...

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens



of precepts in decrees,

Oh! Well I guess I should have read on, before jumping to conclusions.

The law of precepts, "in" decrees...

What's a decree?


Definition of decree
(Entry 1 of 2)
1 : an order usually having the force of law a judicial decree by royal decree
2a : a religious ordinance enacted by council or titular head a papal decree
Definition of DECREE

G1378 δόγμα - Strong's Greek Lexicon Number
δόγμα
that which seems to one, an opinion, dogma
G1378 δόγμα - Strong's Greek Lexicon


Definition of dogma
1a : something held as an established opinion
Definition of DOGMA

Thayer:
1) doctrine, decree, ordinance
G1378 δόγμα - Strong's Greek Lexicon

Definition of doctrine

1a : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : dogma
Definition of DOCTRINE


Oh! Well that's very much different. It's the dogmatic, man made, Pharisaic, laws of the Talmud, that Yashua rebuked, that were done away with.

Hallelu YAH!

that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace;" 16 and should be reconciling both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in it." 17 And, coming, He brings the evangel of peace to you, those afar, and peace to those near, 18 for through Him we both have had access, in one spirit, to the Father." 19 Consequently, then, no longer are you guests and sojourners, but are fellow-citizens of the saints and belong to God's family,

Believers in Yahshua are Israel!

(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

(CLV) 1Jn 3:9
Everyone who is begotten of God is not doing sin, for His seed is remaining in him, and he can not be sinning, for he is begotten of God.

20 being built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, the capstone of the corner being Christ Jesus Himself, 21 in Whom the entire building, being connected together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord:" 22 in Whom you, also, are being built together for God's dwelling place, in spirit."

Hallelu YAH!

Thanks. I read your post but couldn't see your main point. Is it that 'believers in Yahshua are Israel"? Are these believers: 1) living sinless lives, 2) descendants of Jacob, 3) one in Christ the Messiah?

 

[Jesse Johnson]

The Sabbath was made not for mankind but for Adamkind (there is a difference.)

Not so much:

Vocab
אָדָם (a.dam) 'man' (H0120)

Meaning
1) man, mankind
1a) man, human being
1b) man, mankind (much more frequently intended sense in OT)
1c) Adam, first man
1d) city in Jordan valley

The word is used over 500 times in the OT. Depending on which version you prefer it is only translated "Adam" (proper noun) roughly 20 times. Nice theory, but it's pretty much you vs. the entire ancient Hebrew language. That is, unless we're going to posit that the Lord kept the distinction between the first individual person and all of mankind a secret from all of His people (at least before Christ).

 

[HARK!]

Thanks. I read your post but couldn't see your main point. Is it that 'believers in Yahshua are Israel"?

It's a study of Paul's letter to the Ephesians. It's not my point. It's Paul's. Paul is difficult to understand, ergo, the study.

The short answer is yes.

 

[Murray J]

It's a study of Paul's letter to the Ephesians. It's not my point. It's Paul's. Paul is difficult to understand, ergo, the study.

The short answer is yes.

Hi Hark. Well I'm delighted to finally meet some. I have never met anyone who said they hadn't sinned after becoming a believer. (And who were literal descendants of Jacob.) May the Lord bless you indeed.

 

[Murray J]

Not so much:

Vocab
אָדָם (a.dam) 'man' (H0120)

Meaning
1) man, mankind
1a) man, human being
1b) man, mankind (much more frequently intended sense in OT)
1c) Adam, first man
1d) city in Jordan valley

The word is used over 500 times in the OT. Depending on which version you prefer it is only translated "Adam" (proper noun) roughly 20 times. Nice theory, but it's pretty much you vs. the entire ancient Hebrew language. That is, unless we're going to posit that the Lord kept the distinction between the first individual person and all of mankind a secret from all of His people (at least before Christ).

Hi Jesse. My point isn't how it is translated into English. In the Hebrew it is always Adam. If we then begin to look at the context of every use of the Hebrew word adam, we see that it is always related to the sons of Jacob.

 

[BobRyan]

The Sabbath was made not for mankind but for Adamkind (there is a difference.)

Now "this" should be good.

Gentiles (ethnos/nation/people) in the New Testament are non-Jewish Israelites. We know that because Paul explains who the Gentiles/Nations are in Rom 9:25-26 'As He also says in Hosea, "I will call those not My people, My people; and those not beloved, Beloved." And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them. "You are not My people; there they shall be called sons of the living God." '

What does that have to do with "mankind" vs ?? "adam-kind"

Former Israelites became Not My People (ie neither Jews nor Children of Israel.)

"former" Israelites"????

That is your term - it is not in any text you quoted.

But in the Messiah these former Israelites would come back into the fold of His People.

"former" Israelites"????

That is your term - it is not in any text you quoted.

 

[BobRyan]

My opinion? If Isa 66:23 say this below in blue it's not my opinion, it's the whole truth.

No doubt

Isa 66:23
And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to Sabbath,
shall ALL MANKIND come before me to worship - says the LORD.

No doubt it does say that -- I am not challenging that point.

Here is your claim;

=================================
For the rest of us -- it is scripture.

it says "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.

That is true - that is the detail I point to.