Genesis - Reading from a Cultural Context

[IceJad]

This is my first post in Bibliology & Hermeneutics and am not sure if this is appropriate for this forum. I came across these series of videos from the Youtuber InspiringPhilosophy. And after watching through his Genesis 1-11 series felt that he gives compelling evidences and reasoning about reading and understanding the OT from a cultural perspective.

It clears a lot of the more miraculous events that were derived from reading Genesis in modern context. Like how Genesis 1 & 2 are not the same events in deeper elaboration. How God didn't create the earth and universe during Genesis 1:1. That is why there were formless water and land that God hovers over before Genesis 1:1 even begins.

I would like to see all your opinion about this matter.

 

[Knasbas]

If you find that intresting you should watch this 3 part lecture by John Walton.

IP referens to his books in the videos about Gen 1-11 and these lectures goes into more detail about it. Super intresting.

I think in general this way of reading Genesis makes much more sense of it and it makes these stories in particular fit into the narretive of the Bible much better.

I also sugest if you are intrested in Genesis to copy the hole book into a text document and remove all chapter number, titles and vers numbers and split them upp in the sections that the test accually is seperetad in.

If I'm correct the section are: Gen. 1:1, Gen. 2:4, Gen 5:1, Gen. 6:9, Gen. 10:1, Gen. 10:32, Gen. 11:10a, Gen. 11:27, Gen. 25:12, Gen. 25:19, Gen. 36:1, Gen. 36:9, Gen. 37:2

The one that supriced me was that Eden and Kain and Abel is the same story wich makes it apparent to me at least that the Eden part is a build up to Kain and Able and that the death of Able is the climax of the story. That was an eye opener for me.

 

[IceJad]

I'm on part 2 now, you're right his points do match up with John Walton's

 

[Knasbas]

I'm on part 2 now, you're right his points do match up with John Walton's

But it's interesting right? Don't think young earth theologians would like it though

I like how Walton clarifies what the stories probubly are about. F.ex. that the first story in Gen is about our Identity in the cosmos and that it's build on an idea of a threefold morality with the idea of chaos, controary to the traditional christian dualistic view, wich explains why God later flooded the world in the story of Noah and also this way of interpretation makes the stories more relivant in our modern context.



A bit of topic maybe
but if you want something relly meaty about Genesis you should watch Jordan Peterson's Biblical study on Youtube. If you are unfamiliar with him, the study is from a Atheistic-, Evelotion-, Phycosocial-perpective on the biblical stories.

Warning though; even though he is respectfull of the sorce-material he gives alot of challenging ideas for a christians to get grips around and each vid is over 2h and there are 17 of them. Haven't had the time to wach them all myself.

Sorry for the long winded post, I've been nerding out a bit on Genesis lately... lol. -_-

 

[Yanni depp]

I only made it an hour into the second lecture by john walton, given the idea that God resting on The 7th day was probably more like reigning in an ordered kingdom (if i understand him correctly), i wonder if that affects the way we could read into remembering the sabbath, even though God seems to clearly say to do no work.

 

[Yanni depp]

If I'm correct the section are: Gen. 1:1, Gen. 2:4, Gen 5:1, Gen. 6:9, Gen. 10:1, Gen. 10:32, Gen. 11:10a, Gen. 11:27, Gen. 25:12, Gen. 25:19, Gen. 36:1, Gen. 36:9, Gen. 37:2

I was listening to someone talk about this not too long ago, that the ch/verses and little titles in modern bibles were problematic at times. are the sections from the septuagint? Im not exactly sure where to find the information on the actual sections.

 

[Knasbas]

It's the occurrence of the word 'taledoth' that happens throughout Genesis wich is assumed to be a break in the text. According to blue letter bible it translates to something like:
descendants, results, proceedings, generations, genealogies.

So everytime you see: these are the generations of... or the proceedings of... (or something like that depending on how they translated the passage) in Genesis it's a secuence breaker in the text.

So if you assume that gen 1:1 is an opening clause of the first story then every time 'taledoth' enters the text its a new section or story. This is also suported by the fact that these stories have internal litterary structures and symmetries within them.

It's important to remember that Genesis is a compulation of oral traditions that the hebrews had, so it makes sense to treat them as such.
I've even heard that there is a case that the secund story (Eden, Kain and Able) is older than the creation myth. Though I don't have any qoutation on that so take that with a bit of salt.

Btw you can see how problematic the chapter breaks can be in the first chapter and how it splits the ending of the creation myth and place it in the begining of the Eden story.
And if you use a mobile app for your primary bible reading, they tend to buffer only the chapter you are on and nothing else wich makes it even harder to grasp the full context.

 

[Knasbas]

I only made it an hour into the second lecture by john walton, given the idea that God resting on The 7th day was probably more like reigning in an ordered kingdom (if i understand him correctly), i wonder if that affects the way we could read into remembering the sabbath, even though God seems to clearly say to do no work.

I have been wondering the same thing!

 

[Yanni depp]

It's the occurrence of the word 'taledoth' that happens throughout Genesis wich is assumed to be a break in the text. According to blue letter bible it translates to something like:
descendants, results, proceedings, generations, genealogies.

So everytime you see: these are the generations of... or the proceedings of... (or something like that depending on how they translated the passage) in Genesis it's a secuence breaker in the text.

So if you assume that gen 1:1 is an opening clause of the first story then every time 'taledoth' enters the text its a new section or story. This is also suported by the fact that these stories have internal litterary structures and symmetries within them.

It's important to remember that Genesis is a compulation of oral traditions that the hebrews had, so it makes sense to treat them as such.
I've even heard that there is a case that the secund story (Eden, Kain and Able) is older than the creation myth. Though I don't have any qoutation on that so take that with a bit of salt.

Btw you can see how problematic the chapter breaks can be in the first chapter and how it splits the ending of the creation myth and place it in the begining of the Eden story.
And if you use a mobile app for your primary bible reading, they tend to buffer only the chapter you are on and nothing else wich makes it even harder to grasp the full context.

Thank you, i was just going to mention i just found the toledoth section in the third speech from walton, apparently i mispelled it when i was trying to search it from when i heard Heiser talking about it awhile ago. I will keep researching. Thank you!

 

[Yanni depp]

I have been wondering the same thing!

You knew all along !!!!! Dont play humble

 

[Aaron112]

I only made it an hour into the second lecture by john walton, given the idea that God resting on The 7th day was probably more like reigning in an ordered kingdom (if i understand him correctly), i wonder if that affects the way we could read into remembering the sabbath, even though God seems to clearly say to do no work.

In those times, God's Chosen people knew specifically what work was not to be done on Shabbat. Today, few in the world know, but it is known or can be known to God's Chosen.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

This is my first post in Bibliology & Hermeneutics and am not sure if this is appropriate for this forum. I came across these series of videos from the Youtuber InspiringPhilosophy. And after watching through his Genesis 1-11 series felt that he gives compelling evidences and reasoning about reading and understanding the OT from a cultural perspective.

It clears a lot of the more miraculous events that were derived from reading Genesis in modern context. Like how Genesis 1 & 2 are not the same events in deeper elaboration. How God didn't create the earth and universe during Genesis 1:1. That is why there were formless water and land that God hovers over before Genesis 1:1 even begins.

I would like to see all your opinion about this matter.

Any certain timestamp that you find more important than the rest of the vid?

 

[FireDragon76]

They are two different creation stories from slightly different theological perspectives. One from the north, Israel, one from the south, Judah. One story has a more abstract or philosophical view of God, the other has anthropomorphic imagery.

 

[Davy]

How God didn't create the earth and universe during Genesis 1:1.

I would like to see all your opinion about this matter.

Your statement above I put in red is enough to show your source is garbage!

What Genesis 1 reveals is this, and plenty of scholars will even disagree with me on this...

1. Genesis 1:1 = God created the heavens and the earth, an ORIGINAL PERFECT CREATION, when Satan served God, and was perfect in his ways (Ezekiel 28 parable).

2. BETWEEN the time of Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. The 'overthrow'; Satan's original rebellion in coveting God's Throne. God DESTROYED... THAT OLD WORLD, His original perfect creation using a FLOOD OF WATERS UPON THE EARTH. (not the flood of Noah's day).

3. Genesis 1:2 = the earth was without form, and void in the Hebrew means 'a waste and an undistinguishable ruin' (Hebrew tohu va bohu). The earth was laid waste because of God's flood He brought upon the earth to end Satan's rebellion. The Jeremiah 4:23-28 description of "without form, and void" reveals the earth in a waste state, and is pointing to Genesis 1:2.

4. Genesis 1:6-7 = God divided the waters overspread upon the earth, and moved a portion of those waters up above the earth to create today's sky atmosphere. That's what a "firmament" is.

5. Genesis 1:9 = the waters left still covering the whole earth underneath, God moves those waters around until the 'dry land' appears (actually re-appears, for the earth was already there since He created it at verse 1).

In Romans 8:18-25, Apostle Paul said that God placed the creation into 'bondage of corruption', and Paul said the creation seeks to be released from bondage, along with us. That is what God did for this 2nd WORLD EARTH AGE, which is preserved to be destroyed by His consuming FIRE, per 2 Peter 3.

That means this present creation, this 2nd world earth age, is NOT perfect, NOT God's original Perfect creation of the earth when Satan followed Him. That is why everything in this present world decays and dies, and is imperfect, and like Paul says cannot be compared to the glory of the world to come.