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Genesis....Adam....the law of sin and death...

Discussion in 'Exposition & Bible Study' started by orbiter, Jul 2, 2017.

  1. orbiter

    orbiter Active Member

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    Peace unto you.

    God formed man (Adam) out of the dust of the “ground”….Hebrew: “Adamah”….the “red ground” .

    Genesis 2:7 KJV
    (7) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    The “dust” signifies that Adam was a humble man among mankind. I am nothing but “dust and ashes” (being humble about ourselves). God looks to the man who is of a poor and contrite spirit....humbleness.

    Isaiah 66:2 KJV
    (2) For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

    The “ground” = “Adamah” = the “red ground”. “Adam” means “red” only. Adam was washed from the fulfilling of the lusts of the flesh (washed from the red soil) just as the blood (red) of Christ washes us today from the works and lusts of the flesh.

    Now the works of the flesh (the Adamah) are manifest as the whole world regularly practices all of these things. The whole world lies in wickedness as they mind earthly things in their envy, strife and hatred of one another as they continuously sow after the flesh. This is obvious.

    Galatians 5:19-21 KJV
    (19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    (20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    (21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like
    : of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


    The “Adamah” refers to the general condition of mankind who continuously sows after the flesh…fulfilling the lusts and desires of the flesh and of the mind…being by NATURE the children of wrath.

    Adam was one with mankind until God took him from mankind and breathed into him the Spirit by which he was to preach to the rest of mankind. The first man was from the “earth” while the second man (Christ) was sent into this world from above.

    Obviously the thinking is that there were other people in the beginning. Adam was the first man to know God…to have His Spirit…to be the first Son of God…and was to preach His Word to the rest of mankind (the Adamah) who only minded earthly things in their ignorance of God.

    Ephesians 2:1-5 KJV
    (1) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
    (2) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
    (3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

    (4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
    (5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved


    Before Adam was formed, all of mankind had no righteousness (“every plant of the field” had not grown in the heart) and no peace (“every herb of the field”) and it had not “rained” (the teaching of the Spirit of God) upon the earth. These things are parables.

    Genesis 2:4-7 KJV
    (4) These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
    (5) And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.


    There was no man (Adam...the Son of God) to "work" the ground (adamah) in order for righteousness to spring forth in the earth.

    There went up a “mist”…that is fog…from the earth. Mankind upon the WHOLE face of the earth had no understanding of God and His righteousness. They were in a “fog” of not understanding…in ignorance.

    (6) But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

    That is, until God formed Adam from the general population who was in the “fog” of their minds about God as they minded earthly things in their envy, strife and hatred of one another...sowing things after the flesh only. There was no peace.

    Adam, the Son of God, was to be a preacher of the Word of God with the Spirit of God to mankind that had no understanding as the "fog" clouded their understanding.

    (7) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    What is the “rain”? The teaching of the Spirit of God upon this earth. His doctrine drops as the “rain” and it brings forth peace and the fruits of righteousness among mankind. Mankind (the adamah) was to hear of the name of God and His greatness man was to speak of. Man was to learn of God and praise and glorify God.

    Deuteronomy 32:1-3 KJV
    (1) Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.
    (2) My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:
    (3) Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.


    The “rain” is the hearing of the teaching of the Holy Spirit by which we are to partake of in faith of what we hear. We are to drink it in…tasting the good Word of God.

    Hebrews 6:4-12 KJV
    (4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
    (5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
    (6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


    We are to hear the preaching of the Spirit and not “crucify” the Son of God with evil speaking. The Son of God comes to give us an understanding so that we may know Him who is true. We are not to resist the Spirit but drink in what we hear.

    The “rain” comes upon the earth and we are to bring forth peace and righteousness….the “herbs” that are useful for those who “till” the ground as we shall inherit eternal life in this world. Our work shall be the labor of love towards what we hear the Spirit saying and towards those brothers who speak what they hear in the Spirit.

    (7) For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

    But the ground that bears “thorns and briers” towards what they hear (towards the “rain” of the preaching of the Spirit) is rejected and is near unto cursing.

    (8) But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
    (9) But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
    (10) For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
    (11) And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
    (12) That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

    God breathed into the man’s nostrils ( “nostrils” = the wrath of man…. for by nature Adam was the children of wrath as the rest of mankind). The wrath of man does not work the righteousness of God. God breathed into Him His peace and His Spirit and Adam was to preach with that life-giving Spirit (the breath of lives) to mankind.

    Genesis 2:7 KJV
    (7) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    Before the forming of Adam, sin was in the world but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

    Romans 5:12-13 KJV
    (12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
    (13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law
    .

    Enter the law...the Word of God: God COMMANDED the man (Adam), saying…..

    Genesis 2:15-17 KJV
    (15) And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
    (16) And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:


    Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

    This is the “law of sin and death” by which death entered into this world through one man (Adam). Sin was already in the world but men did not die yet as it was not imputed to them until the giving of the Law of God.

    (17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    Now Adam was a preacher (with the Spirit) to mankind of the Law of God (the Word of God) so that they may live according to His righteousness in peace with one another…loving one another…having the fruits of the Spirit. We are to "dress"...to WORK...and keep His law. We are to delight (the meaning of "Eden" is "delight") in His law and work it and keep it in order to have a peaceful, delightful, eternal life in this earth.

    Of every tree of the garden we may freely eat ….that is, we are to eat of the fruit of the Spirit freely which is love, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, etc. Against such there is NO LAW but the Law is to DO these things as commanded and live for God commanded it from the very beginning.

    “Adamah” works the works of the flesh while Adam was supposed to eat of the fruit of the Spirit as he had the Spirit of God breathed into him.

    Galatians 5:19-26 KJV
    (19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    (20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    (21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    (22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    (23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

    (24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
    (25) If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
    (26) Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.


    Adam was to be a preacher of the Word of God to mankind….His commandments.

    But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, man was not to eat of it…..or mortally die from this earth. The law of sin and death has now been fixed in nature just as the law of gravity.

    Genesis 2:
    (17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


    “you shall surely die” should be translated strictly as “dying, you shall die”…or rather by “killing, you shall die”.

    To be continued…
     
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  2. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We done... it is the same word with a prefix (mut t'mut) and though mut can mean "kill," the context of "death" is well established. So "dying you will die" is really the best translation and what does it mean? That a process that leads to death had begun... dying... he was now dying, the clock was ticking, decay was beginning. It took a long time but eventually the process won out and he died... just as we decay and die. That is the wage is sin.
     
  3. CrystalDragon

    CrystalDragon Well-Known Member

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    I don't think death was the wage of sin in that case, it seems like it was a consequence of eating the fruit itself. Like getting sick after eating a poisonous plant.
     
  4. orbiter

    orbiter Active Member

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    Peace.

    Thank you brothers for reading and considering the content presented …and the peaceful input. Any peaceful input is welcome.

    The thinking here is that by “killing” (dying) another, we shall die. Whosoever hates his brother is a “murderer” and no murder has eternal life abiding in him (as he is dying in his mortal flesh to the grave). Those who hate their brothers are abiding in death as we speak.

    1 John 3:15 KJV
    (15) Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

    If one speaks evil of another ("killing" with the sword of the tongue), he is judging another.

    Many judge others in their evil speaking labeling them “evildoers” when others do not follow their particular denomination’s teachings or commandments of men. Or they judge them as “fools”,etc ,etc .

    Those who speak evil of another are not DOERs of the “law”…..which is to have love for one another…. but are acting as JUDGES (“gods”) which is part of the lie of the serpent (“you shall be as gods (Elohim = judges or gods) knowing good and evil”).

    A judge knows who or what is good and evil and judges them as so. They speak evil of the law (to have love for one another) when they do so as they profess it but are not doing it. They see themselves as “above the law” so to speak as they see themselves as judges for God (doing these things in His name or authority).

    James 4:11-12 KJV
    (11) Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

    There is only One Lawgiver who is able to save and destroy. Yet, MANY set aside the law of God (to have love for one another) in order to keep their doctrines and commandments of men….and they use them to judge others. They are not having love for one another when doing such things. They nullify His law by doing so when they add their own commandment to God’s.

    (12) There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

    Remember how the woman added her own commandment (“neither shall you touch it”) to God’s and then presented it as God had said it.

    Genesis 3:1-6 KJV
    (1) Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
    (2) And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:


    There is only One Lawgiver…yet the woman adds her own commandment (“neither shall you touch it”) when God did not say it….and she spoke evil… judged others… using it as a basis for doing so. She erroneously thought that she was doing God service (being a judge for Him) for “killing” another with evil speaking. How many believe and practice THE lie today that we are "gods"....judges for God...when we speak evil of others over a carnal commandment (i.e. "neither shall you touch it") that a fleshly-minded man has wrested from the Scriptures?

    (3) But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

    A fleshly-minded man deceives us into keeping a carnal commandment ("touch not") thereby setting aside the commandment of God to have love for one another in order to keep it.

    Colossians 2:18-23 KJV
    (18) Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

    A fleshly-minded man does not have the mind of Christ as he beguiles many to turn from the Holy Commandment (to have love for one another) in order to keep his carnal commandment.

    (19) And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
    (20) Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

    "Neither shall you touch it..." We perish when we set aside the commandment of God to have love for one another in order to keep the commandments and teachings of men who do not have the mind of Christ.

    (21) (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
    (22) Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
    (23) Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.


    These men come forth to deceive (with words of emptiness) those who are just escaping from the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    2 Peter 2:17-22 KJV
    (17) These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
    (18) For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
    (19) While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
    (20) For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

    It would have better for them not to have known the Way of righteousness than after having known it to turn from the Holy Commandment (have love for one another) that was deliver from the Lord for us to keep. We are to work and keep it.

    (21) For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
    (22) But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


    They exchange the truth of God for THE lie...the same lie from the beginning. They serve the "creature"...the ordinance of a fleshly-minded man (i.e. "neither shall you touch it")...more than the Creator who is blessed forever.

    Romans 1:22-25 KJV
    (22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
    (23) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
    (24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
    (25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.



    This is the message that we hear from THE beginning (in Genesis): that we should love one another.

    1 John 3:11-14 KJV
    (11) For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
    (12) Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
    (13) Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
    (14) We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.


    The law of God is the old commandment to have love for one another from THE beginning (in Genesis). The "old commandment" is Word or the Saying: have love for one another. We are to have love even for our enemies.

    1 John 2:7-10 KJV
    (7) Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
    (8) Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
    (9) He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
    (10) He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.


    We truly know God if we keep His commandments.

    1 John 2:3-6 KJV
    (3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    (4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    (5) But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
    (6) He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


    When the LORD God “planted”….that is, fixed or established…the “garden” eastward in Eden, He put the man whom He had formed there to “dress” it…that is, to WORK it…and keep it.

    Genesis 2:7-8 KJV
    (7) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
    (8) And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.


    He put the man into the “garden” of Eden to work it and to keep it. “Eden” means “delight”.

    Genesis 2:15 KJV
    (15) And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

    The “garden” is the commandments of God that we are to “work” and “keep” so that we KNOW GOD.

    The garden is knowing God as God reigns in our lives when we work and keep His commandments.

    We DELIGHT (the meaning of “Eden”) to do His commandments and God DELIGHTS in us for keeping them. When we keep His commandments, we KNOW GOD and we have eternal life abiding in our mortal flesh.

    John 17:1-3 KJV
    (1) These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
    (2) As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
    (3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


    Blessed is the man whose DELIGHT (the meaning of “Eden”) is in the law (the “garden”) of the Lord of which we are to “work” and “keep”.

    He is like a “tree” planted by the rivers of water (the Spirit) that brings forth the fruits of righteousness in due season. That man will hear the Son of God who comes to give us an understanding in the Spirit and will bring forth fruits of righteousness at the hearing of His voice. He will not sit in the seat of the scornful who will mock what they hear the Spirit saying.

    Psalms 1:1-3 KJV
    (1) Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
    (2) But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
    (3) And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.


    Blessed is the man that fears the LORD and DELIGHTS (the meaning of “Eden”) greatly in His commandments (the “garden”). We are to work and keep the “garden”…His commandments. We KNOW GOD in the “garden” when we work and keep His commandments. We delight in working and keeping God’s commandments and He delights in us for working and keeping them. God then rejoices over us for good.

    Psalms 112:1-3 KJV
    (1) Praise ye the LORD. Blessed is the man that feareth the LORD, that delighteth greatly in his commandments.
    (2) His seed shall be mighty upon earth: the generation of the upright shall be blessed.
    (3) Wealth and riches shall be in his house: and his righteousness endureth for ever.


    We are to “DELIGHT” ourselves in His statutes. We are not to forget His Word but keep it….remember it and DO it.. so that we may live.

    Psalms 119:16-21 KJV
    (16) I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word.
    (17) GIMEL. Deal bountifully with thy servant, that I may live, and keep thy word.


    When we keep His Word (to have love for one another), then we can understand the things of the Scriptures. The eyes of our understanding shall behold wondrous things out of the keeping of His law.

    (18) Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.
    (19) I am a stranger in the earth: hide not thy commandments from me.
    (20) My soul breaketh for the longing that it hath unto thy judgments at all times
    .

    Those that do err from His commandments are cursed.

    (21) Thou hast rebuked the proud that are cursed, which do err from thy commandments.

    Death came to all men because of one man, Adam. When men speak evil of another, they are being judges (as "gods").

    Genesis 3:22-24 KJV
    (22) And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

    He was sent forth from the “garden of Eden” to till (work) the “ground” (Adamah….the works of the flesh of mankind) from where he was once taken from. Adam was taken out of the works of the flesh of mankind and he returned to serve the works of the flesh...serving sin with a rejected (reprobate) mind.

    (23) Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
    (24) So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.


    To be fleshly minded (Adamah) is death. The mind of the flesh is not subject to the LAW OF GOD (the “garden”) nor can it be….for the man is driven out of the garden of Eden. The fleshly mind does not DELIGHT in working and keeping His commandments and the fleshly mind cannot please God.

    Romans 8:5-9 KJV
    (5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
    (6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.


    The fleshly mind is hostility against God for it is not subject to the law of God (the garden of Eden) and neither can it be. They cannot please God. God does not DELIGHT in the fleshly mind of men as fleshly-minded men do those things which do not please Him.

    (7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
    (8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

    (9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


    God gave Adam and all mankind who did not like to retain God in their "knowledge" over to a reprobate (rejected) mind to do those things which are not convenient being filled with all unrighteousness...full of MURDER and other bad things...

    Romans 1:28-32 KJV
    (28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
    (29) Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
    (30) Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,


    They have no understanding….

    (31) Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

    …yet they do know the judgment of God ("killing, you shall die") that those who commit such things are worthy of death.

    (32) Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.




    To be continued….
     
  5. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You're welcome to that view, of course. :) But God said, "eat and you will die." He ate, and didn't die immediately, but was removed from having access to the Tree of Life and eventually died. Had he retained access to the Tree of Life it stands to reason he wouldn't have died. Therefore, since God said, "mut t'mut" (dying you will die) we know a process leading to death began when he ate of the fruit hence "the wages of sin is death."
     
  6. CrystalDragon

    CrystalDragon Well-Known Member

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    That's pretty much what I'm saying. The reason Adam and Eve started dying when they ate of the tree wasn't because it was a "sin consequence/curse" God placed on them, it was because the Tree of Knowledge was like a double-edged poisonous sword: stay ignorant and not have you degenerate or gain knowledge and have you start to die. The Tree of Life would have had them be able to live forever again because the fruit of the Tree of Life was like medicine from the poison of the Tree of Knowledge.

    Though why God made the Tree of Knowledge poisonous and wanted them to remain ignorant is beyond me.
     
  7. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Some people believe that grace is a NT only concept... that is false. Not only is the Hebrew word for grace far abundant in the OT than the Greek word for grace is in the NT... but look at the act of grace right there in the garden. When Adam sinned he began to decay, become susceptible to disease, eventually dying. Can you imagine what he would look and feel like today if he was allowed to continue to decay but not die? I hurt after 51 years years, imagine Adam at 6000? :) God booting him from the garden and blocking off his access to the Tree of Life was an act of grace, I am sure of it.
     
  8. CrystalDragon

    CrystalDragon Well-Known Member

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    How was it an act of grace though? If God let them eat from the Tree of Life, then the fruit from it would have been like medicine. There would have been no decay. Why couldn't God let them have knowledge and not die? Why were they only allowed to live forever if they remained ignorant?
     
  9. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think we see this "ignorant" thing a little differently. Let me back up...

    Before Adam sinned it was "as if" he was plugged into God. God was Adam's source for all understanding, for all everything. When he sinned, it was "as if" he unplugged and now had to chose on his own between what was good and what was wrong.

    What Yeshua did was give us a way to plug back in. And even though we have not been perfected and returned to the pre-sin Adam like state (we will be), when we come in faith we lean on Him as "Lord" which means we are agreeing to no longer chose on our own between what is good or evil but instead allow Him as Lord to dictate our path.

    Back to Adam... when he sinned and had to chose, he also began to decay. If he continued to have access to the Tree that gave him immortality, then he would have lived on but in a decaying state. By banishing him from the garden and tree, Adam could ultimately die... be relieved of the stress of decay and disease.... and not live on in a decaying state.

    So, I see it as grace that God allowed him to die.
     
  10. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    What you are doing is called allegorizing.
     
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